Should England fail to qualify from the group?

[Wullie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840712/World-Cup-2010-if-Fabio-Capello-cant-coach-England-to-glory-could-anyone.html

 

 

"I think the fear of the World Cup is in the minds of the players. It's incredible. The performance on one side is good [in training] but on the other one they are not the same players."

How do you expect to institute change if the players cannot or will not listen to what you want them to do? Surely nobody out there thinks that what England did against Algeria was what Capello wanted? How do you stop this fear of the World Cup apart from by going out of it?

Capello's post-match despair in the bowels of the Green Point stadium was that of a man who had been beaten. He has received everything that he has asked of the Football Association to ensure that the team received the best possible preparation. There can be no blame thrown in that direction. No, it comes down either to Capello's incompetence or that of his players. Guess who's got the track record?

 

You've ignored the bit where the writer says he's got his tactics all wrong and is playing five of the front six in a system unfamiliar to them.

[Parky]

The media really love to see us do well, eh? Bet the scrote bastards are walking around with constant stonk-ons at what has happened so far.

 

I'm not their biggest fans, but pretty much everything I've just read is spot on. I can imagine it being the truth too. You can tell on the pitch that something is not right behind the scenes.

 

In this instance, the media are saying exactly what everyone in England is thinking.

 

"Inside sources" and all that bollocks as well? Making Rooney the easy scapegoat after what he said to the camera? It's all very convenient to me and they seem to revel in the fact that something isn't right. Hope it builds some sort of siege mentality, allowing us to do the business on Wednesday and then see where we go from there.

 

Not to the extreme they report, but I can imagine Rooney's attitude being a problem amongst the squad. I can also imagine that Capello's way of managing (the lack of emotion and 'friendliness' etc) is not popular with the players, especially after having Sven and McClaren as managers previous.

 

They seemed fine with it till the got to the world cup though. Strange.

[Parky]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840712/World-Cup-2010-if-Fabio-Capello-cant-coach-England-to-glory-could-anyone.html

 

 

"I think the fear of the World Cup is in the minds of the players. It's incredible. The performance on one side is good [in training] but on the other one they are not the same players."

How do you expect to institute change if the players cannot or will not listen to what you want them to do? Surely nobody out there thinks that what England did against Algeria was what Capello wanted? How do you stop this fear of the World Cup apart from by going out of it?

Capello's post-match despair in the bowels of the Green Point stadium was that of a man who had been beaten. He has received everything that he has asked of the Football Association to ensure that the team received the best possible preparation. There can be no blame thrown in that direction. No, it comes down either to Capello's incompetence or that of his players. Guess who's got the track record?

 

You've ignored the bit where the writer says he's got his tactics all wrong and is playing five of the front six in a system unfamiliar to them.

 

That's why I added the link.

[JH]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840712/World-Cup-2010-if-Fabio-Capello-cant-coach-England-to-glory-could-anyone.html

 

 

"I think the fear of the World Cup is in the minds of the players. It's incredible. The performance on one side is good [in training] but on the other one they are not the same players."

How do you expect to institute change if the players cannot or will not listen to what you want them to do? Surely nobody out there thinks that what England did against Algeria was what Capello wanted? How do you stop this fear of the World Cup apart from by going out of it?

Capello's post-match despair in the bowels of the Green Point stadium was that of a man who had been beaten. He has received everything that he has asked of the Football Association to ensure that the team received the best possible preparation. There can be no blame thrown in that direction. No, it comes down either to Capello's incompetence or that of his players. Guess who's got the track record?

 

You've ignored the bit where the writer says he's got his tactics all wrong and is playing five of the front six in a system unfamiliar to them.

 

 

I would say it's the players that have the track record too, they've performed better than this at Int level.

[Parky]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either. There needs to be some compromise, the players are clearly unhappy at having to play football at a high standard and to distinct instructions. 

[JH]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

[Rich]

Imagine away, let the NoTW be your guide. Funny how people believe the press when it suits them, even when the majority of information comes from one of these fabled "senior inside sources".

 

To me they've just attempted to fill in the blanks and give people scapegoats, which is easy meat really. Not saying that it is categorically false, but I do imagine the odds are in my favour based on that particular paper's track record.

 

There's a difference between criticising and offering suggestions as to what needs fixing/how to fix it, and making s*** up to stir the pot even further. As fans we aren't in any great position to influence others, as a newspaper they are.

 

I'm not saying the source is accurate, I'm just saying they seem to be hitting around the right area. And it's exactly what everybody else is saying, they're writing what we want to read.

 

Offering suggestions? They're not on the England coaching staff and nobody from the England coaching staff will be reading. There's no influence there and if you think there is, it completely contradicts your earlier comment about the NOTW's lack of a decent track record.

 

At the end of the day, there is something wrong with the squad and the team is underperforming. We're unhappy, they're unhappy, and so the media are reporting unhappiness - they've every right to.

 

That Telegraph article just posted has done exactly that, in terms of offering suggestions about how to change the shape of the side and it briefly speculates on what might be going wrong in terms of individual performances from a psychological perspective. To me, that's a good article, although maybe not SENSATIONAL enough, and it doesn't have quotes from an inside source.

 

My only gripe here is the way in which certain papers report on things and stoke the fire, much like they have done to NUFC and continue to do. Offering tactical suggestions for people to consider and get behind (I would say most on here would support Heskey being dropped for Cole) seems harmless enough and is constructive at times, but making up sensationalist crap that turns fans against Rooney and Capello in that manner is wrong.

 

As far as the contradiction goes, of course papers have influence at all levels. Players and managers tend to read the rags and watch SSN (which covers the papers and has journos in doing interviews and which the England team have access to in their rooms). But it's the influence on fans that is narking me, it's stoking everyone up to turn on the team and certain individuals before the biggest game we've had in 4 years.

[Parky]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

 

Isn't it more or less same system used all through qualifying? Players seemed happy then. I could be wrong.

[JH]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

 

Isn't it more or less same system used all through qualifying? Players seemed happy then. I could be wrong.

 

That's what leads me to believe it's something to do with unhappiness/Capello's approach to the players - after all, in qualiying they were together for a few days at a time. At the minute, they've been together for weeks - maybe they could take his cold approach in small dosage, but having to put up with it for two weeks straight is lowering morale and upsetting the better players.

 

It may well be the same system as qualifying, but now it's not working. He needs to see that or we'll be on the plane home come Thursday morning.

[Parky]

Imagine away, let the NoTW be your guide. Funny how people believe the press when it suits them, even when the majority of information comes from one of these fabled "senior inside sources".

 

To me they've just attempted to fill in the blanks and give people scapegoats, which is easy meat really. Not saying that it is categorically false, but I do imagine the odds are in my favour based on that particular paper's track record.

 

There's a difference between criticising and offering suggestions as to what needs fixing/how to fix it, and making s*** up to stir the pot even further. As fans we aren't in any great position to influence others, as a newspaper they are.

 

I'm not saying the source is accurate, I'm just saying they seem to be hitting around the right area. And it's exactly what everybody else is saying, they're writing what we want to read.

 

Offering suggestions? They're not on the England coaching staff and nobody from the England coaching staff will be reading. There's no influence there and if you think there is, it completely contradicts your earlier comment about the NOTW's lack of a decent track record.

 

At the end of the day, there is something wrong with the squad and the team is underperforming. We're unhappy, they're unhappy, and so the media are reporting unhappiness - they've every right to.

 

That Telegraph article just posted has done exactly that, in terms of offering suggestions about how to change the shape of the side and it briefly speculates on what might be going wrong in terms of individual performances from a psychological perspective. To me, that's a good article, although maybe not SENSATIONAL enough, and it doesn't have quotes from an inside source.

 

My only gripe here is the way in which certain papers report on things and stoke the fire, much like they have done to NUFC and continue to do. Offering tactical suggestions for people to consider and get behind (I would say most on here would support Heskey being dropped for Cole) seems harmless enough and is constructive at times, but making up sensationalist crap that turns fans against Rooney and Capello in that manner is wrong.

 

As far as the contradiction goes, of course papers have influence at all levels. Players and managers tend to read the rags and watch SSN (which covers the papers and has journos in doing interviews and which the England team have access to in their rooms). But it's the influence on fans that is narking me, it's stoking everyone up to turn on the team and certain individuals before the biggest game we've had in 4 years.

 

I think it's a fair article and looks at both sides.

 

For me Capello made a mistake not bringing a left footed winger and then compounding it by not starting Cole.

[Guest schmuck]

They need to get Smith and Nolan out there to chair some clear-the-air talks

[Parky]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

 

Isn't it more or less same system used all through qualifying? Players seemed happy then. I could be wrong.

 

That's what leads me to believe it's something to do with unhappiness/Capello's approach to the players - after all, in qualiying they were together for a few days at a time. At the minute, they've been together for weeks - maybe they could take his cold approach in small dosage, but having to put up with it for two weeks straight is lowering morale and upsetting the better players.

 

It may well be the same system as qualifying, but now it's not working. He needs to see that or we'll be on the plane home come Thursday morning.

 

All this morale stuff is bollocks, these overpaid, overhyped, self-centered boys (they clearly aren't men) are letting the country down cause they aren't allowed to wear flip flops, be on their phones all day and away from their wives and their world class shopping habits. That is basically it. They really think they are something and it must have come as a shock in the first 20 min against Algeria who were running rings round them with most players earning peanuts and playing at small clubs. They need to get their heads together for Wed cause if they don't get out of the group all hell will break loose.

[Guest elbee909]

I think if there's not a big money contract at stake for these players, then their hearts aren't in it.  Sadly they probably don't even know this themselves.

[Rich]

Jonny, by the way (sorry on the iPhone here, this isn't easy) in terms of the contradiction, you claim the NoTW doesn't have any influence because it has a poor track record in terms of accuracy, right?

 

Yet you were/are happy to go along with their spin on things because you could "imagine" it being true?

 

Surely that demonstrates that they DO have influence on people and therefore means that the supposed "contradiction" doesn't exist at all?

 

For the record, I don't believe I had suggested anything about influencing anything other than England fans before you mentioned the coaching staff.

[JH]

Jonny, by the way (sorry on the iPhone here, this isn't easy) in terms of the contradiction, you claim the NoTW doesn't have any influence because it has a poor track record in terms of accuracy, right?

 

Yet you were/are happy to go along with their spin on things because you could "imagine" it being true?

 

Surely that demonstrates that they DO have influence on people and therefore means that the supposed "contradiction" doesn't exist at all?

 

For the record, I don't believe I had suggested anything about influencing anything other than England fans before you mentioned the coaching staff.

 

I'm not being influenced by the NOTW, nor am I going 'along with their spin'. They're reporting what I think is going on in the camp anyway, it hasn't changed my opinion, simply gone a bit of a way to backing it up.

[Rich]

Fair enough mate. Can't agree with the manner of the reporting, is all, stirring up thoughts of when Bobby was being lynched by the same tossers before it was all said and done.

[JH]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

 

Isn't it more or less same system used all through qualifying? Players seemed happy then. I could be wrong.

 

That's what leads me to believe it's something to do with unhappiness/Capello's approach to the players - after all, in qualiying they were together for a few days at a time. At the minute, they've been together for weeks - maybe they could take his cold approach in small dosage, but having to put up with it for two weeks straight is lowering morale and upsetting the better players.

 

It may well be the same system as qualifying, but now it's not working. He needs to see that or we'll be on the plane home come Thursday morning.

 

All this morale stuff is bollocks, these overpaid, overhyped, self-centered boys (they clearly aren't men) are letting the country down cause they aren't allowed to wear flip flops, be on their phones all day and away from their wives and their world class shopping habits. That is basically it. They really think they are something and it must have come as a shock in the first 20 min against Algeria who were running rings round them with most players earning peanuts and playing at small clubs. They need to get their heads together for Wed cause if they don't get out of the group all hell will break loose.

 

I don't really care how much they care, how much they think of themselves and how much they're paid - I've pretty much come to expect that this is what football has become and it will probably never change.

 

They're unhappy, it's as simple as that. Make them happy and they'll play better.

[JH]

Fair enough mate. Can't agree with the manner of the reporting, is all, stirring up thoughts of when Bobby was being lynched by the same tossers before it was all said and done.

 

Don't get me wrong, I fucking despise the paper in general. Their treatment of this club has been nothing short of disgusting over the years.

 

I just agree with that particular reflection of this event.

[Unbelievable]

Everybody stop panicking please. There is no way you are not qualifying from this group, no way. After that, anything can happen. You've not made a great start to the tournament, but you have every chance to do well still...

[Rich]

Everybody stop panicking please. There is no way you are not qualifying from this group, no way. After that, anything can happen. You've not made a great start to the tournament, but you have every chance to do well still...

 

Hopefully Mr. 6 Points And Already Qualified is right!

[Parky]

I'm not totally blaming the players, but I'm not stupid enough to hang one of the best managers in the world out to dry either.

 

He is an incredible manager. But a better manager would realise his mistakes and attempt to find a system that suited his players, rather than try to force his players to become suited to a system. That's where he's going wrong. Square pegs, round holes.

 

Isn't it more or less same system used all through qualifying? Players seemed happy then. I could be wrong.

 

That's what leads me to believe it's something to do with unhappiness/Capello's approach to the players - after all, in qualiying they were together for a few days at a time. At the minute, they've been together for weeks - maybe they could take his cold approach in small dosage, but having to put up with it for two weeks straight is lowering morale and upsetting the better players.

 

It may well be the same system as qualifying, but now it's not working. He needs to see that or we'll be on the plane home come Thursday morning.

 

All this morale stuff is bollocks, these overpaid, overhyped, self-centered boys (they clearly aren't men) are letting the country down cause they aren't allowed to wear flip flops, be on their phones all day and away from their wives and their world class shopping habits. That is basically it. They really think they are something and it must have come as a shock in the first 20 min against Algeria who were running rings round them with most players earning peanuts and playing at small clubs. They need to get their heads together for Wed cause if they don't get out of the group all hell will break loose.

 

I don't really care how much they care, how much they think of themselves and how much they're paid - I've pretty much come to expect that this is what football has become and it will probably never change.

 

They're unhappy, it's as simple as that. Make them happy and they'll play better.

 

Apparently they're not unhappy they're bored and they think Capello should be more like a friendly uncle dolling out lollipops and shit. I really don't think they have a clue what the world cup means to the man in the street. Sickening. If Brian Clough had been in charge Rooney would already have been on the plane.

[Neil]

Everybody stop panicking please. There is no way you are not qualifying from this group, no way. After that, anything can happen. You've not made a great start to the tournament, but you have every chance to do well still...

 

Ah right, sorry. I thought we'd just played 90 minutes where we were shown up by a poor Algerian side and arguably outplayed for chunks of the game...

 

There is every chance we won't qualify. We should beat Slovenia, yes, but we should have beaten the Yanks and my word we should have beaten Algeria, so I'm not going into the game with much confidence. I'll still be cheering them on as loud as ever, though.

 

 

[Mr Logic]

Just had John Terry on the TV behind me saying they could still qualify and believed they would. It was a flat proclamation, no emotion, no belief. This guy is captain?

 

edit:

 

Did anyone just see the Terry press conference? Apparently it was brutally honest, with Terry mentioning a meeting where the players would be telling Capello exactly what they thought etc and if it upset him then 'so what'. Also, SSN apologised for some of the language or something.

 

I never saw the whole thing, clearly.

[Dave]

Just had John Terry on the TV behind me saying they could still qualify and believed they would. It was a flat proclamation, no emotion, no belief. This guy is captain?

 

No.

[Unbelievable]

Everybody stop panicking please. There is no way you are not qualifying from this group, no way. After that, anything can happen. You've not made a great start to the tournament, but you have every chance to do well still...

 

Ah right, sorry. I thought we'd just played 90 minutes where we were shown up by a poor Algerian side and arguably outplayed for chunks of the game...

 

There is every chance we won't qualify. We should beat Slovenia, yes, but we should have beaten the Yanks and my word we should have beaten Algeria, so I'm not going into the game with much confidence. I'll still be cheering them on as loud as ever, though.

 

 

 

When push comes to shove, and in a must win game, England will beat Slovenia, of that I am sure. It won't be pretty, and it will be nail biting stuff, but I just can't see you lose that one with the quality you have throughout the squad.