Will Mike spend any of this on NUFC?

[Stu]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

 

I think Liverpool failing to meet their debt obligations (Hicks & Gillett put the cost of buying the club onto the club books as business loans) has a far greater impact upon  Liverpool as a club, than Newcastle being relegated and Mike Ashley's championship-level budget taking the strain of another season in...the Championship.

 

EDIT: 'fear' of the unknown plays a part in this too, a lot of NUFC fans thought that life outside the top flight was shit and that we'd no longer exist if we were relegated, turns out it's just another season of football (albeit, at a lesser level but more winning weekends). A lot of LFC fans have gotten used to Champs League/European nights, the idea of flirting with relegation, let alone being involved in a relegation fight is pretty foreign to them - people fear the unknown.

 

Your comment about Liverpool's owners comes across as though you think they understand football finances moreso than Ashley? Granted, most people would say it's like having to vote between a Douche and Turd, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Liverpool fan who agrees that Hicks & Gillett are football savvy. Knowing that they required Champions League football season-in, season-out, they played hard-ball with a popular and seemingly (at the time, at least) successful manager, only to then cave in and give him a ridiculous pay-off clause that effectively prevented the club from being able to sack him - something they should have done three seasons ago.

 

They allowed him to sign mediocre players on decent contracts while letting decent players go for nominal sums (just to get them off the books) - I thought they would have realised their assets for some working capital (or debt repayment), at the very least.

 

I certainly was applying your comment about LFC fans to our own, we're not doing too badly this summer - I think the two signings we've made so far have been level-headed and I would welcome more of the same (type of signing, not necessarily type of player). Low-key, minimal cash outlay and players with something to prove/not demanding unsustainable wages. It's not very exciting in the short-term, but we had that with Owen, with Luque, with Duff, with Emre, with Parker, with Boumsong...none of them really worked out and probably did more harm, than good, to the club overall.

 

It's low-risk, but it's sensible. Let Hughton build a team and a squad of players that he thinks he can trust and rely upon. Once he's done that, then he can look to add the flair and the skill needed to start moving upwards.

[Stu]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

a lot obviously

 

but how many seasons without CL football can they suffer before the wheels really come off?

 

let's put it this way as Stu brought us into it - i don't see Liverpool ending the summer balanced on transfers or in a profit and i can not say that with the same level of confidence for us

isn't that stus point  though, when the wheels come off at liverpool they will have to behave as we are or face going under. we have been to a certain extent in the position liverpool are in. we spent to try and recapture the champs lge place and if it doesn't work your left with a load of debt that cant be built on forever.

i'm not trying to be offensive to Stu but from his post if you gleaned that that was his point i just don't know how

 

and i don't see how any of that negates what i said about improving on the pitch - fat fred kept gambling 'cause he knew being up there and having good players is the ONLY way to succeed financially...he took it too far and couldn't see that the game had changed around him with Abramovich etc. but the fundamental principle is sound

 

it's only when you lose sight of when to reign it in things go to shit...i can't say how anyone can say Liverpool are at that point yet

 

Probably because he's read my views on LFC and NUFC finances before. No offence taken

 

Maddy is right, Liverpool need to start getting their house in order very, very soon. Even if they do make it back into the Champions League jackpot, they need to be self-sufficient (which they aren't at the moment) to satisfy the new UEFA criteria.

 

Liverpool are currently stuck in a season of catch-22, they don't have the safety-net of Champs League income (they won't be able to keep Mascherano & Torres beyond this season if they don't have a good run in the Europa & re-qualify), they've currently got the 5th or 6th best squad in the league and they can't afford to add a significant improvement (in the same way Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City or Spurs can).

 

They seem to have done a decent deal with Joe Cole, but look a bit further into it and Benayoun has gone the other way (for some wonga at least), but there aren't many of those type of deal to be found. There's a lot riding on Hodgson, so a good start is going to be crucial for their season (I think he's capable of doing it for them) otherwise Anfield can turn just as easily as SJP.

 

I'm not sure what profit/break-even and transfers have to do with the topic though; however, at the moment Liverpool have bought:

Jonjo Shelvey(£1.7m), Joe Cole (£0), Raheem Sterling (£600k), Milan Jovanovic (£0), Danny Wilson (£2m) = £4.3m~

 

and sold:

Yossi Benayoun (£5.5m), Albert Riera (£4m), Mikel San Jose (£250k) = £9.75m~

 

We've sold no-one and bought:

James Perch (£1m~), Dan Gosling (£0)

 

Similar transfer policies I think, just that Liverpool are currently attracting higher calibre players (and paying the wages for it too).

[Stu]

Gotcha - read it the wrong way to what you intended.

 

Agree that Liverpool will spend and put out a stronger team. just not sure which way that will be taking their balance sheet.  At some point you have to live within your means. We are a good example of realising that a little too late.

 

The question is.....are we ahead of the move to fiscal responsibility and can we turn that to our advantage

 

 

I think I said that earlier: someone in charge has to realise the tipping point, fat fred didn't do that with us.  Mike Ashley has gone past the tipping point in the other direction and to answer your question I don't think he's smart enough to make prudence work in our favour, ever.

 

As for Liverpool, again as I said, I don't think they're anywhere near the point where they should stop spending reasonable amounts to keep in the CL.  Fair enough if they piss 100m away this summer and fail they'd better rethink but they have a good squad and now a good manager.  Reasonable investment will see them through imo.

 

I agree, but where does it come from? Certainly won't be from the current owners - so that leaves their supporters hoping for a takeover (see: NUFC September 2008)

[EthiGeordie]

I wish he buys one player out of his pocket every year. As a gift for the fans that way he would have improve his repution here greatly.

[madras]

I never understood why people thought not spending money on official Newcastle United related products, tickets, etc and boycotting Sports Direct would help get rid of Mike Ashley. If people want rid of him, buy official NUFC stuff and shop at Sports Direct. He is never going to leave until he has at least broken even. Having said all that, I definitely think it's a case of "better the devil you know" for us NUFC fans when it comes to Mike Ashley. Liverpool are for sale (at an admittedly ridiculous reported price of £800m + £200m debt) and there is no news on anyone buying them. Nobody is queuing up to buy NUFC and pump their own money in.

 

difference is their current owner(s) appear to understand that what happens on the football pitch is what mostly determines a clubs value so if they fail to invest in the side the likelihood of them getting their money back and/or selling for a decent price diminishes,

 

Really?

 

NUFC have strengthened, sure just maybe not to the extent all of their supporters would like

 

 

No?

 

again i'm kind of at a loss with what you're trying to say, if you're trying to say my statement can be applied to us then yes i agree

 

very different states we're both in though Stu - Liverpool not strengthening any more might mean they don't make the CL...us not doing it might mean relegation

 

i was talking about club value...one will have a greater impact on value than the other, wouldn't you agree?

how much will liverpool have to "strengthen" before they are worth 800mill (if that is the true price) ?

a lot obviously

 

but how many seasons without CL football can they suffer before the wheels really come off?

 

let's put it this way as Stu brought us into it - i don't see Liverpool ending the summer balanced on transfers or in a profit and i can not say that with the same level of confidence for us

isn't that stus point  though, when the wheels come off at liverpool they will have to behave as we are or face going under. we have been to a certain extent in the position liverpool are in. we spent to try and recapture the champs lge place and if it doesn't work your left with a load of debt that cant be built on forever.

i'm not trying to be offensive to Stu but from his post if you gleaned that that was his point i just don't know how

 

and i don't see how any of that negates what i said about improving on the pitch - fat fred kept gambling 'cause he knew being up there and having good players is the ONLY way to succeed financially...he took it too far and couldn't see that the game had changed around him with Abramovich etc. but the fundamental principle is sound

 

it's only when you lose sight of when to reign it in things go to s***...i can't say how anyone can say Liverpool are at that point yet

 

Probably because he's read my views on LFC and NUFC finances before. No offence taken

 

Maddy is right, Liverpool need to start getting their house in order very, very soon. Even if they do make it back into the Champions League jackpot, they need to be self-sufficient (which they aren't at the moment) to satisfy the new UEFA criteria.

 

Liverpool are currently stuck in a season of catch-22, they don't have the safety-net of Champs League income (they won't be able to keep Mascherano & Torres beyond this season if they don't have a good run in the Europa & re-qualify), they've currently got the 5th or 6th best squad in the league and they can't afford to add a significant improvement (in the same way Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City or Spurs can).

 

They seem to have done a decent deal with Joe Cole, but look a bit further into it and Benayoun has gone the other way (for some wonga at least), but there aren't many of those type of deal to be found. There's a lot riding on Hodgson, so a good start is going to be crucial for their season (I think he's capable of doing it for them) otherwise Anfield can turn just as easily as SJP.

 

I'm not sure what profit/break-even and transfers have to do with the topic though; however, at the moment Liverpool have bought:

Jonjo Shelvey(£1.7m), Joe Cole (£0), Raheem Sterling (£600k), Milan Jovanovic (£0), Danny Wilson (£2m) = £4.3m~

 

and sold:

Yossi Benayoun (£5.5m), Albert Riera (£4m), Mikel San Jose (£250k) = £9.75m~

 

We've sold no-one and bought:

James Perch (£1m~), Dan Gosling (£0)

 

Similar transfer policies I think, just that Liverpool are currently attracting higher calibre players (and paying the wages for it too).

many on here have commented on LFC's position if they drop out of the champs league. does anyone think they can keep investing if they fail to make it in the champs league again ?

[Stu]

I wish he buys one player out of his pocket every year. As a gift for the fans that way he would have improve his repution here greatly.

 

That was his original intention (at least, stated) once the club was running self-sufficiently, he would provide £20mil per season for things like transfer fees, signing on bonus, etc. Non-recurring items that wouldn't be a continual drain on the club's budget.

[Stu]

many on here have commented on LFC's position if they drop out of the champs league. does anyone think they can keep investing if they fail to make it in the champs league again ?

 

 

I think I said that earlier: someone in charge has to realise the tipping point, fat fred didn't do that with us.  Mike Ashley has gone past the tipping point in the other direction and to answer your question I don't think he's smart enough to make prudence work in our favour, ever.

 

As for Liverpool, again as I said, I don't think they're anywhere near the point where they should stop spending reasonable amounts to keep in the CL.  Fair enough if they piss 100m away this summer and fail they'd better rethink but they have a good squad and now a good manager.  Reasonable investment will see them through imo.

 

I agree, but where does it come from? Certainly won't be from the current owners - so that leaves their supporters hoping for a takeover (see: NUFC September 2008)

[OzzieMandias]

I wish he buys one player out of his pocket every year. As a gift for the fans that way he would have improve his repution here greatly.

 

That was his original intention (at least, stated) once the club was running self-sufficiently, he would provide £20mil per season for things like transfer fees, signing on bonus, etc. Non-recurring items that wouldn't be a continual drain on the club's budget.

 

He didn't say what it was to be spent on, just that he'd not take anything out and would put £20 million a year in -- which, from the accounts so far, it seems he has been doing.

 

If the club gets to break-even point in terms of revenue/outgoings, then that £20 million can be spent on players. Until that point, it's underwriting losses. We're basically operating on whatever we make plus £20 million.

[Dave]

He's not doing the £20m any more anyway is he? Thought he pulled it, and said as much.

[LiquidAK]

I know Ashley's a prick, and this is sacrilege, but tbh the way he's running the club right now, I'm happy with. Hughton seems to have funds to bring in players, and we're not splashing out shit loads of cash on overpaid primadonnas. For the future at least, this can only be a good thing.

[madras]

I wish he buys one player out of his pocket every year. As a gift for the fans that way he would have improve his repution here greatly.

 

That was his original intention (at least, stated) once the club was running self-sufficiently, he would provide £20mil per season for things like transfer fees, signing on bonus, etc. Non-recurring items that wouldn't be a continual drain on the club's budget.

 

He didn't say what it was to be spent on, just that he'd not take anything out and would put £20 million a year in -- which, from the accounts so far, it seems he has been doing.

 

If the club gets to break-even point in terms of revenue/outgoings, then that £20 million can be spent on players. Until that point, it's underwriting losses. We're basically operating on whatever we make plus £20 million.

thats not taking into account any repayment of the debt if we were to hit that break even point. that was the vague point in the latest 5 year plan and the club "breaking even" when it was never established if that mean after clearing the debt or simply not running up any more debt (which realistically could be done this current financial year...or the next should we stop up)

[Dave]

I know Ashley's a prick, and this is sacrilege, but tbh the way he's running the club right now, I'm happy with. Hughton seems to have funds to bring in players, and we're not splashing out shit loads of cash on overpaid primadonnas. For the future at least, this can only be a good thing.

 

If we stay up this year (a reasonably big ask) then next summer will probably be a decent time to judge. I remain unconvinced he has any ambition for us other than scraping survival each year at minimal cost, and I'm not sure where you get the idea there is cash to spend at present. Sell to buy is where we are at present as I see it.

 

Generally agree for the sake of the club's stability though, and I'd be worried about a prospective sale landing us with someone even more clueless.

[madras]

I know Ashley's a prick, and this is sacrilege, but tbh the way he's running the club right now, I'm happy with. Hughton seems to have funds to bring in players, and we're not splashing out s*** loads of cash on overpaid primadonnas. For the future at least, this can only be a good thing.

 

If we stay up this year (a reasonably big ask) then next summer will probably be a decent time to judge. I remain unconvinced he has any ambition for us other than scraping survival each year at minimal cost, and I'm not sure where you get the idea there is cash to spend at present. Sell to buy is where we are at present as I see it.

 

Generally agree for the sake of the club's stability though, and I'd be worried about a prospective sale landing us with someone even more clueless.

could be interesting if the rules on finances are carried out (if they've actually been passed).....we may be in as good a position as many in the top flight. (for example is there a drying up of cash down the road ?)

[LiquidAK]

I know Ashley's a prick, and this is sacrilege, but tbh the way he's running the club right now, I'm happy with. Hughton seems to have funds to bring in players, and we're not splashing out shit loads of cash on overpaid primadonnas. For the future at least, this can only be a good thing.

 

If we stay up this year (a reasonably big ask) then next summer will probably be a decent time to judge. I remain unconvinced he has any ambition for us other than scraping survival each year at minimal cost, and I'm not sure where you get the idea there is cash to spend at present. Sell to buy is where we are at present as I see it.

 

Generally agree for the sake of the club's stability though, and I'd be worried about a prospective sale landing us with someone even more clueless.

 

Just based on the signing of Perch really. After last January window where Hughton seemed to go and identify our weaknesses pretty well, I don't think he'd spend our entire budget on Perch, knowing we have a lot of other areas that need greater strengthening. That to me suggests there's still more money there to be spent.

 

I'm hoping Ashley's learnt from his mistakes, and won't see mere survival as enough. Probably wishful thinking, like.

[OzzieMandias]

He's not doing the £20m any more anyway is he? Thought he pulled it, and said as much.

 

Got a link?

[madras]

He's not doing the £20m any more anyway is he? Thought he pulled it, and said as much.

 

Got a link?

i vaguely remember that coming out.

[Ronaldo]

"No longer prepared to do that" I read somewhere, I think.

 

I thought it was said in his September/October 2008 statement .

[mrmojorisin75]

Gotcha - read it the wrong way to what you intended.

 

Agree that Liverpool will spend and put out a stronger team. just not sure which way that will be taking their balance sheet.  At some point you have to live within your means. We are a good example of realising that a little too late.

 

The question is.....are we ahead of the move to fiscal responsibility and can we turn that to our advantage

 

 

I think I said that earlier: someone in charge has to realise the tipping point, fat fred didn't do that with us.  Mike Ashley has gone past the tipping point in the other direction and to answer your question I don't think he's smart enough to make prudence work in our favour, ever.

 

As for Liverpool, again as I said, I don't think they're anywhere near the point where they should stop spending reasonable amounts to keep in the CL.  Fair enough if they piss 100m away this summer and fail they'd better rethink but they have a good squad and now a good manager.  Reasonable investment will see them through imo.

 

I agree, but where does it come from? Certainly won't be from the current owners - so that leaves their supporters hoping for a takeover (see: NUFC September 2008)

 

"Reasonable investment" for them remains to be seen I suppose, 10 - 20m net spend (say on 2 very good players in key positions) on top of what they've already done for me would be reasonable.  As madras says if that 'gamble' fails and they miss the CL spots again then it'd have to be time for a rethink surely?

 

Obviously a Torres or Gerrard sale for stupid money might change the game considerably for them one way or the other.

 

As for us Gosling might not play until well into next year and there are serious doubts about Perch at PL level from what I can gather so I think we have a ways to go before we can consider ourselves strengthened on the pitch for the forthcoming slogfest.

[Stu]

Gotcha - read it the wrong way to what you intended.

 

Agree that Liverpool will spend and put out a stronger team. just not sure which way that will be taking their balance sheet.  At some point you have to live within your means. We are a good example of realising that a little too late.

 

The question is.....are we ahead of the move to fiscal responsibility and can we turn that to our advantage

 

 

I think I said that earlier: someone in charge has to realise the tipping point, fat fred didn't do that with us.  Mike Ashley has gone past the tipping point in the other direction and to answer your question I don't think he's smart enough to make prudence work in our favour, ever.

 

As for Liverpool, again as I said, I don't think they're anywhere near the point where they should stop spending reasonable amounts to keep in the CL.  Fair enough if they piss 100m away this summer and fail they'd better rethink but they have a good squad and now a good manager.  Reasonable investment will see them through imo.

 

I agree, but where does it come from? Certainly won't be from the current owners - so that leaves their supporters hoping for a takeover (see: NUFC September 2008)

 

"Reasonable investment" for them remains to be seen I suppose, 10 - 20m net spend (say on 2 very good players in key positions) on top of what they've already done for me would be reasonable.  As madras says if that 'gamble' fails and they miss the CL spots again then it'd have to be time for a rethink surely?

 

Obviously a Torres or Gerrard sale for stupid money might change the game considerably for them one way or the other.

 

As for us Gosling might not play until well into next year and there are serious doubts about Perch at PL level from what I can gather so I think we have a ways to go before we can consider ourselves strengthened on the pitch for the forthcoming slogfest.

 

I don't get this, you're arguing that Liverpool's owners are more prepared to strengthen their squad for what is clearly a 'make or break' season for the club based upon them hypothetically spending £15-25m which they don't have, over the next 5 weeks.

 

Our club has made a couple of modest signings whilst releasing some deadwood squad members (i.e. Nicky Butt) which can only be a good thing for the couple of promising youngsters that we have (I'm sure you'll agree that a couple of games with the untried Vukcic has got to be better than a couple of game with Butt walking about midfield?).

 

We're not talking about a complete overhaul of the squad, but we were evidently a step above the championship level last season and Hughton has only improved upon those players, with another 5 weeks for any hypothetical signings to come through.

 

This isn't a make or break season for NUFC, our financial model (much to the disgust of a sizeable section of our support) is clearly designed to withstand a season of championship football income. Liverpool can't afford more than one season out of the Champs League (and even then, they need a good run in the Europa to offset some of the losses).

 

With that in mind, I think our owners have done a better job than Liverpool's to prepare the club for the coming season (how many newspaper reports do you read of NUFC players wanting to leave SJP?)

[Stu]

"No longer prepared to do that" I read somewhere, I think.

 

I thought it was said in his September/October 2008 statement .

 

Yeah, he did say that...but as HappyFace will highlight, it was just another episode of 'Ashley Lies', he's still pumped more than that in to keep the club running (yes, it's in his best interests too, we know). The hope is that once we're back on an even keel with PL level of income, he'll be enjoying it again (he seemed to be last year) and won't pull the plug on what should hopefully be our transfer kitty.

[Guest]

I highly doubt that Liverpool will spend more than they bring in this summer.

 

 

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

"No longer prepared to do that" I read somewhere, I think.

 

I thought it was said in his September/October 2008 statement .

 

Yeah, he did say that...but as HappyFace will highlight, it was just another episode of 'Ashley Lies', he's still pumped more than that in to keep the club running (yes, it's in his best interests too, we know). The hope is that once we're back on an even keel with PL level of income, he'll be enjoying it again (he seemed to be last year) and won't pull the plug on what should hopefully be our transfer kitty.

 

Ashley 'invested' £20m as late as Jan 2010 to cover the loses of the club, so the papers claimed.

[mrmojorisin75]

I don't get this, you're arguing that Liverpool's owners are more prepared to strengthen their squad for what is clearly a 'make or break' season for the club based upon them hypothetically spending £15-25m which they don't have, over the next 5 weeks.

 

Our club has made a couple of modest signings whilst releasing some deadwood squad members (i.e. Nicky Butt) which can only be a good thing for the couple of promising youngsters that we have (I'm sure you'll agree that a couple of games with the untried Vukcic has got to be better than a couple of game with Butt walking about midfield?).

 

We're not talking about a complete overhaul of the squad, but we were evidently a step above the championship level last season and Hughton has only improved upon those players, with another 5 weeks for any hypothetical signings to come through.

 

This isn't a make or break season for NUFC, our financial model (much to the disgust of a sizeable section of our support) is clearly designed to withstand a season of championship football income. Liverpool can't afford more than one season out of the Champs League (and even then, they need a good run in the Europa to offset some of the losses).

 

With that in mind, I think our owners have done a better job than Liverpool's to prepare the club for the coming season (how many newspaper reports do you read of NUFC players wanting to leave SJP?)

 

As ever we seem to not connect Stu.  I'm saying I consider 10 - 20m to be "reasonable investment" for Liverpool should they make it, not that they will.  That's why I said "for me would be reasonable".  With the current squad they have, plus say 2 good players for that type of money they'd make the CL again imo, assuming the signings work which is always key.

 

As regards your comment in bold how can you possibly say that Stu?  Gosling will not play this year and Perch might not even be first choice in whatever position he's best at (which seems under question).  How on earth is that better than what Liverpool have done?

 

Anyway as you say there's 5 weeks for hypothetical signings to be made, I offered the opinion at the start of this that Liverpool's owners will recognise the need to strengthen on the pitch as it will help them sell the club eventually.  At the end of the transfer window I expect to be proven right, although that strengthening might end up coming from the inflated sale of a Mascherano or Torres or someone. 

 

I may well end up being wrong on the net spend part, in which case fair enough.

[Guest Antigalican]

I'm no Ashley fan, but surely any business man realises that the only way NUFC will a) recover financially, and or b) become a saleable asset iby becoming re-established in the PL. Ashley is a businessman, and despite his past mistakes seems to be a successful one, and therefore I'm confident he will recognise he needs to do what it takes to keep us up.

[UV]

I certainly was applying your comment about LFC fans to our own, we're not doing too badly this summer - I think the two signings we've made so far have been level-headed and I would welcome more of the same (type of signing, not necessarily type of player). Low-key, minimal cash outlay and players with something to prove/not demanding unsustainable wages. It's not very exciting in the short-term, but we had that with Owen, with Luque, with Duff, with Emre, with Parker, with Boumsong...none of them really worked out and probably did more harm, than good, to the club overall.

 

We finished 7th with those players that didn't really work out. Some of them didn't play much of a part in the season due to injury, but then their backups were at least as good as our first choice players are now relative to the competition. If you consider getting into Europe doing more harm than good, then I'm not really sure what your hopes are for the club you support. The effect of the players you mention "not working out" (ie not performing to level you would expect for the money paid) is that we didn't finish as high up the table as we would have liked. The effect of the calibre of players we are buying now "not working out" (which is every bit as likely) is humiliating relegation.

 

I know it's currently fashionable to be happy with signing second rate players for low fees on low wages, but I guarantee if that policy continues without supplementing it with established quality players, we'll be relegated again within a couple of seasons as any remnants of quality we have left in the squad (or which develops from the players bought in) leaves due to lack of ambition from the club.

 

 

 

As to whether Mike is going to put in £20m, here's my rough working out on the state of the club's finances for this year:

 

Going by the 2006 accounts which are the last one's I have, I make the annual running costs of the club outside of the wage bill and interest repayments to be around £22m, lets say that's gone up to £25m. In the relegation season, revenue was £86m, down from £99m the previous year. I would expect revenue this year to be somewhere inbetween, say a conservative £90m. Let's also say the wage bill is now around £50m.

 

I make that 90-50-25 = £15m profit.

 

Very rough of course, and all based on guestimates, but I think I've very much erred on the side of higher costs and lower income (part of the reason the turnover reduced was because catering was contracted out so costs from that will have gone), but I'm happy for anyone to come along and correct or update any of those figures so we have a more accurate picture. I haven't for example included the money we will be receiving this year for the players sold in the past few years.

 

So if Mike is putting in £20m on top, by my reckoning we should have £35m+ to spend on players & wages this year.

 

Let the good times roll? I guess we'll see. Anyone want to bet on it?