Hatem Ben Arfa

[Flip]

Agree he has to play central ideally. With Obertan out I would just start Marveaux and bring HBA into it in the second half. Then start him off Ba against both the Manchester teams.

 

Don't necessarily have to play him against the Manchesters side if he has a good game against Everton, but I hope to see Ben Arfa getting at least a half in the three-four coming games.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Agree he has to play central ideally. With Obertan out I would just start Marveaux and bring HBA into it in the second half. Then start him off Ba against both the Manchester teams.

 

Don't necessarily have to play him against the Manchesters side if he has a good game against Everton, but I hope to see Ben Arfa getting at least a half in the three-four coming games.

 

I just think that our best chance of hurting Man Utd and particularly Man City is a flash of brilliance from Ben Arfa. As far as I'm concerned we've got nothing to lose in those games, so give HBA a chance to go crazy.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

In my eyes, Ben Arfa-Best partnership could also perform...I hope it will be tested in the future.

[Flip]

Agree he has to play central ideally. With Obertan out I would just start Marveaux and bring HBA into it in the second half. Then start him off Ba against both the Manchester teams.

 

Don't necessarily have to play him against the Manchesters side if he has a good game against Everton, but I hope to see Ben Arfa getting at least a half in the three-four coming games.

 

I just think that our best chance of hurting Man Utd and particularly Man City is a flash of brilliance from Ben Arfa. As far as I'm concerned we've got nothing to lose in those games, so give HBA a chance to go crazy.

 

True, I'm all in favor of starting him this weekend already, I won't be disappointed for him not play against the big sides in the beginning, but I think his brilliance can hurt the small teams the most, where we struggled last season.

[Christmas Tree]

This thread bounces from one end of the scale to the other. 

 

1. No one, bar possibly 1, maybe, has written Ben Arfa off.

 

2. Its understandable given we are third that fans are reluctant to drop Best

 

3. While Im sure Ben Arfa is more skillfull, Best is currently holding the ball up and not conceding possession. This is probably the main reason why Pardew prefers to continue with Best and not HBA.

 

 

[Guest hatem garrincha]

This thread bounces from one end of the scale to the other. 

 

1. No one, bar possibly 1, maybe, has written Ben Arfa off.

 

2. Its understandable given we are third that fans are reluctant to drop Best

 

3. While Im sure Ben Arfa is more skillfull, Best is currently holding the ball up and not conceding possession. This is probably the main reason why Pardew prefers to continue with Best and not HBA.

 

Are you saying that Pardew already drop into (your own) conclusions about Ben Arfa ?  :lol:

[Christmas Tree]

This thread bounces from one end of the scale to the other. 

 

1. No one, bar possibly 1, maybe, has written Ben Arfa off.

 

2. Its understandable given we are third that fans are reluctant to drop Best

 

3. While Im sure Ben Arfa is more skillfull, Best is currently holding the ball up and not conceding possession. This is probably the main reason why Pardew prefers to continue with Best and not HBA.

 

Are you saying that Pardew already drop to conclusions about Ben Arfa ?  :lol:

 

Strange comments. Im saying (as is quite obvious), Pardew currently prefers Best and Ba to any other combination.

[Baggio]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

[Baggio]

Slightly disagree with you about Best pip, I think he's been pretty good all season and unlucky to be subbed at times when Ba remained on. His hold up and aerial play has impressed me a lot too.

 

That said, I know HBA's talent is miles ahead of anyone else we've got.

 

His performances against Spurs, Wigan and Wolves were below average. Not saying he was the only one, but was much more visible against Stoke then against any of the other teams possibly this whole season. And like Pip said, maybe we don't need to change right now, but at some point Ben Arfa will have to get in if we want to challenge for a top 6-7 spot.

 

Best played well against Wigan, far better than Ba in fact and didn't deserve to be subbed.

 

Even though he went off at half time he was still our best striker that day.

[Christmas Tree]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

 

Spot on.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

 

Spot on.

 

Yeah, the deep positions that Ba likes to take up are my main worry about pairing him with HBA. In fact, Best would probably be a better partner, but Ba has made himself undroppable.

 

Interesting dilemma for the Silver Fox.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

This thread bounces from one end of the scale to the other. 

 

1. No one, bar possibly 1, maybe, has written Ben Arfa off.

 

2. Its understandable given we are third that fans are reluctant to drop Best

 

3. While Im sure Ben Arfa is more skillfull, Best is currently holding the ball up and not conceding possession. This is probably the main reason why Pardew prefers to continue with Best and not HBA.

 

Are you saying that Pardew already drop to conclusions about Ben Arfa ?  :lol:

 

Strange comments. Im saying (as is quite obvious), Pardew currently prefers Best and Ba to any other combination.

 

Not a strange comment at all. You said that the main reason why Pardew prefers Best is HBA "conceding possessions". I'm not arguing the fact Pardew prefers Best at the moment but the reason you put behind this choice.

[Flip]

We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together. I have no doubt that Ba can play off the last defender instead of dropping deep. I also think he wouldn't get as tired if he did, since he's running so much, he's knackered after 65-75minutes. Ba's goals have come from a position where nothing suggest he can't play there, as they have been from inside the box and not all of them have been from coming from deep. Against Blackburn he held up the ball and smashed it and why wouldn't he be able to do it on a regular basis? I feel its more that Pardew wants him to drop deep since Best won't to the same degree, but nothing suggest his game will not be as good if he doesn't drop deep.

[Guest hatem garrincha]

We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together.

 

Spot on 

[Tiresias]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

 

Yeah think it may have to be Ben Arfa or Ba rather than together, or stick Ben Arfa out wide, I agree inferior position, and I've argued against it but not a terrible idea really.

[Flip]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

 

Yeah think it may have to be Ben Arfa or Ba rather than together, or stick Ben Arfa out wide, I agree inferior position, and I've argued against it but not a terrible idea really.

 

You mean it should be Best along with either of our two best offensive players, instead of playing our two best offensive players together? It's football, you should always be able to accomodate your best players together.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's football, you should always be able to accomodate your best players together.

 

Totally disagree with that, IMO you should always make the best team out of whatever parts you need to use. Our greatest strength this season is making a team that is more than the sum of its parts.

 

That said, we won't know about Ba and HBA until we try it, so we should definitely give it a go.

[Taylor Swift]

By the way, I also want to add that I trust Pardew's judgment about which players to start etc. He clearly had a reason to drop Ba at the start of the reason and I feel that he knows what he's doing by holding Marveaux and Ben Arfa back as well, but he's also shown himself willing to play Ben Arfa in his favored position, which is prima facie evidence that Pardew has seen enough of Ben Arfa in training to be willing to send him on at HT to change the game. At the same time, he's probably seen that Ben Arfa isn't the hardest of workers which is why he wasn't sent on against either Wolves or Stoke, but we didn't buy a big talent like him for his defensive abilities. I think Pardew's seen enough to start Ben Arfa but he doesn't want to change a winning team for many reasons - morale probably being the biggest - but I bet that he'll make the change pretty instantly if Best isn't performing well or if Ben Arfa comes on and does well. I disagree with what someone said earlier in this thread about Ben Arfa telling Pardew that he's not willing to play on the wing because Pardew doesn't strike me as the type to bow down to player pressure. I do think that there was a general agreement between the player and everyone at the club at the time that he signed that he would be played as a #10, which was why he was so willing to sign for us, but again Pardew doesn't strike me as the type to force a player like Ben Arfa into the team based on an agreement made when he wasn't even here. I could see him just sitting Ben Arfa if he felt that he wasn't good enough, but he's been so vocal about Ben Arfa's quality and the role that he'll play that it's not just PR, in the same way that he's talked up R Taylor and continues to - rightly too imo - start him at LB. The silver fox is a smooth operator in the media room but he's also pretty honest when it comes to his judgment of players (Ranger being sixth choice also comes to mind).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Of course, in Pards we trust!

[James]

I anticipate a French meltdown on here when Marveaux replaces Obertan.

[Ronaldo]

Felipao is talking a lot of sense here. Ben Arfa has played, I think, about 180 minutes in total in the Premiership so far in his whole career. One hundred and eighty f***ing minutes. And some people are writing him off, saying he shouldn't be played in his favorite position, saying Best should start over him etc.

 

What a load of absolute rubbish. I don't think I've read more nonsense in a long, long time. Ben Arfa is good enough to build a whole team around. He's the difference between ending up in 7th and possibly challenging for 4th. No one else in our squad has the talent that he does. There are doubts about him mentally but to write him off after essentially only two matches is one of the daftest things that I've ever read on here. A large portion of the recent pages in this thread will be in time as funny as 'Joke Enrique' is now. I mean, seriously, you're writing a player who many people would say is arguably the best player of his country's generation off after basically two matches? Are you shittin me? And preferring Leon Best over him?

 

No one's sure whether he's the player he was before but to be concluding that he can't play in our team or that he won't fit in our formation without actually giving him a run of games is completely retarded and is a sign of extreme bias/close-mindedness. There's a chance that he's lost a yard of pace or whatever but to not even give him a chance and to prefer someone like Best over him is mind-boggling. It's like ruling out Drogba after his first season where he didn't get many goals, or ruling out Vidic after his first six months. If you're a baby and want instant gratification then buy a f***ing lollipop.

 

Best and Ba are doing well and we're 3rd in the league. There's absolutely no reason to drop Best for a player who can't play the same role.

[Baggio]

We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together. I have no doubt that Ba can play off the last defender instead of dropping deep. I also think he wouldn't get as tired if he did, since he's running so much, he's knackered after 65-75minutes. Ba's goals have come from a position where nothing suggest he can't play there, as they have been from inside the box and not all of them have been from coming from deep. Against Blackburn he held up the ball and smashed it and why wouldn't he be able to do it on a regular basis? I feel its more that Pardew wants him to drop deep since Best won't to the same degree, but nothing suggest his game will not be as good if he doesn't drop deep.

 

So not only do we want to split up a very good partnership to accommodate Ben Arfa but we also want a striker that has scored 8 goals in 9 league games this season and 15 in 21 in 2011 to change the style of play that has been very effective for him to accommodate the lad too?

 

 

[TherealnorthernTOON]

Bestie plays a huge role in todays Newcastle. And I think I even mentioned that Ba liked to work off an even bigger man then himself when we signed him. As he was flourishing alongside CC in wham. What really concerns me about HBA is his lust to allways make something happend. And I especially think it would be alot better for him to not use his excellent dribbling skills all the time and just keep the ball in the team and explode into attack. Just like messi does.

 

Playing a midfield trio is something we could do and many pherhaps would like to see. But that would be jonas playing into the midfield trio if we were to implement it to get  all three of Ba, Best and HBA up top wich might have been ideal. It could work with Jonas, Tiote and Cabaye having immense amount of graft in them. We got a ball carrier through middle wich jones showed he can do against chelsea? or was it manu last season. I think it would be interesting as jonas could have much more of a free role. But implementing this would mean more attacking fullbacks and a high defensive line(wich we allready are using). To get the with and depth in attack. Would be a quite good formation with alot of problems to create for the opposition. What would worry me though would be the front trio not contributing an awfull lot in defense.

[Ronaldo]

We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together. I have no doubt that Ba can play off the last defender instead of dropping deep. I also think he wouldn't get as tired if he did, since he's running so much, he's knackered after 65-75minutes. Ba's goals have come from a position where nothing suggest he can't play there, as they have been from inside the box and not all of them have been from coming from deep. Against Blackburn he held up the ball and smashed it and why wouldn't he be able to do it on a regular basis? I feel its more that Pardew wants him to drop deep since Best won't to the same degree, but nothing suggest his game will not be as good if he doesn't drop deep.

 

So not only do we want to split up a very good partnership to accommodate Ben Arfa but we also want a striker that has scored 8 goals in 9 league games this season and 15 in 21 in 2011 to change the style of play that has been very effective for him to accommodate the lad too?

 

 

 

You'd honestly think we were talking about Gonzalo Higuain or someone of similiar ability. Ludicrous.

[Baggio]

Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions.

 

Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything.

 

Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best.

 

Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon.

 

Yeah think it may have to be Ben Arfa or Ba rather than together, or stick Ben Arfa out wide, I agree inferior position, and I've argued against it but not a terrible idea really.

 

You mean it should be Best along with either of our two best offensive players, instead of playing our two best offensive players together? It's football, you should always be able to accomodate your best players together.

 

Like Gerrard and Lampard in midfield for England?

 

The two best individuals don't automatically make the best partnerships.