Steven Taylor (now retired)

[The College Dropout]

 

 

Yes. But calling someone a black c*** doesn't make you a racist. It will get you sacked from your job if it's corporate and some matches banned if you're a footballer.

 

The image was racially offensive.

 

I've never heard anybody say that who wasn't racist.   

 

I find it amazing that you can claim the bit in bold and then take offence at the image that was tweeted but I do admit ignorance as I'm not black so have never been racially abused, that I know of.

 

My point is: Simply saying words doesn't make you a racist. It's possible for someone to say those words and NOT be a racist. It's possible for someone to be racist and never racially insult/abuse someone. The point is: those words and pictures have no place in a society that is against racism.

 

I'm not going to excuse what to me.. is a racist image because I don't believe Steven Taylor is racist. I don't believe John Terry is a massive racist either but he said a racist thing and was deservedly punished.

[Guest bimpy474]

Not to disrespect but to bring in slavery, colonialism, oppression, genocide and outright intentional racism into a debate about a thick as pig shit footballer who obviously meant no harm is a tad overkill.

 

While I understand it, I think we can take what Saylor did in isolation, he hasn't done it before and shown no signs of being in any way racist.

[Parky]

Historical context as a retort to the fat people defense.

[Guest NobbyOhNobby]

 

Because generations of fat people or ginger people weren't enslaved, persecuted, and had their countries invaded and overtaken by white people? Think about what you're saying. There are obvious legacy issues that we can't comprehend because we, as predominantly white folk of Anglo-Saxon descent in or region, don't have a relatively recent history of being persecuted en masse due to the colour of our skin

 

You also need to think about what you're saying, Haidara wasn't offended by what was tweeted.  I've seen people who are not black wrongly persecuted for reasons they had no control over.  You seem to think that it's worse to do something to a black person which isn't hurtful to them than it is to do to others which does hurt them.

There's definitely different levels, mick. Calling someone fat doesn't hark back to the enslavement of fat people for 400 years, but it hurts their feelings and upsets them. Two different things, no? Racism is a far more devastating thing than being nasty to fat people

[Guest palnese]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110923235243/smuff/images/f/fd/Fluffy_haired_overreaction.gif

[The College Dropout]

Skin colour has been a defining characteristic for hundreds of years of persecution, it really is a no go area for jokes.

 

I understand that, it was persecution based on ignorance, are we still ignorant?  I don't think we are and I don't think we need to see everything as racism just because it's based around colour.

 

Racism is not about ignorance.

 

In any case.. I believe Taylor's compared a few of our black lads to a darkened-up man with comic Gollywogesque lips, some type of tribal African man and some other black dude for good measure. If that's not ignorant I don't know what is.

[Guest bimpy474]

Basically you don't make jokes about colour, it really is that simple. And shows just how simple Saylor is to do it.

[Guest bimpy474]

 

Because generations of fat people or ginger people weren't enslaved, persecuted, and had their countries invaded and overtaken by white people? Think about what you're saying. There are obvious legacy issues that we can't comprehend because we, as predominantly white folk of Anglo-Saxon descent in or region, don't have a relatively recent history of being persecuted en masse due to the colour of our skin

 

You also need to think about what you're saying, Haidara wasn't offended by what was tweeted.  I've seen people who are not black wrongly persecuted for reasons they had no control over.  You seem to think that it's worse to do something to a black person which isn't hurtful to them than it is to do to others which does hurt them.

There's definitely different levels, mick. Calling someone fat doesn't hark back to the enslavement of fat people for 400 years, but it hurts their feelings and upsets them. Two different things, no? Racism is a far more devastating thing than being nasty to fat people

 

Fuck me then I'm the biggest racist in the world because Mrs Bimpy is one fat mother fucker.

[Parky]

 

Because generations of fat people or ginger people weren't enslaved, persecuted, and had their countries invaded and overtaken by white people? Think about what you're saying. There are obvious legacy issues that we can't comprehend because we, as predominantly white folk of Anglo-Saxon descent in or region, don't have a relatively recent history of being persecuted en masse due to the colour of our skin

 

You also need to think about what you're saying, Haidara wasn't offended by what was tweeted.  I've seen people who are not black wrongly persecuted for reasons they had no control over.  You seem to think that it's worse to do something to a black person which isn't hurtful to them than it is to do to others which does hurt them.

There's definitely different levels, mick. Calling someone fat doesn't hark back to the enslavement of fat people for 400 years, but it hurts their feelings and upsets them. Two different things, no? Racism is a far more devastating thing than being nasty to fat people

 

Fuck me then I'm the biggest racist in the world because Mrs Bimpy is one fat mother fucker.

 

Being fat isn't a race.

[Guest bimpy474]

 

Because generations of fat people or ginger people weren't enslaved, persecuted, and had their countries invaded and overtaken by white people? Think about what you're saying. There are obvious legacy issues that we can't comprehend because we, as predominantly white folk of Anglo-Saxon descent in or region, don't have a relatively recent history of being persecuted en masse due to the colour of our skin

 

You also need to think about what you're saying, Haidara wasn't offended by what was tweeted.  I've seen people who are not black wrongly persecuted for reasons they had no control over.  You seem to think that it's worse to do something to a black person which isn't hurtful to them than it is to do to others which does hurt them.

There's definitely different levels, mick. Calling someone fat doesn't hark back to the enslavement of fat people for 400 years, but it hurts their feelings and upsets them. Two different things, no? Racism is a far more devastating thing than being nasty to fat people

 

Fuck me then I'm the biggest racist in the world because Mrs Bimpy is one fat mother fucker.

 

Being fat isn't a race.

 

Well she's fecking quick at getting there.

[Guest bimpy474]

It was just a joke by the way.

[The College Dropout]

Not to disrespect but to bring in slavery, colonialism, oppression, genocide and outright intentional racism into a debate about a thick as pig s*** footballer who obviously meant no harm is a tad overkill.

 

While I understand it, I think we can take what Saylor did in isolation, he hasn't done it before and shown no signs of being in any way racist.

 

I'm not saying Saylor is a racist. But some of the images in the picture kinda harken back to some of those sentiments (the gollywog-esque face, the random African). Now I don't believe for a second Saylor intentionally put it all together like that's not an excuse.

 

People on here are attempting to excuse Saylor because he's an idiot and doesn't realise what he's done (and he clearly hasn't/doesn't realise).

[Guest NobbyOhNobby]

It was just a joke by the way.

And a good one!

 

Just before anyone says it, I'm not saying it's alright to be horrible to fat people

[Skirge]

He's an idiot not a racist

[B-more Mag]

It's the stupidest form of attempt at humor. They're black? No fucking shit.

[Parky]

He's an idiot not a racist

 

But the content and cultural demarcation of that image IS racist. The FA will slam him for it and rightly so...Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law.

[Guest bimpy474]

Not to disrespect but to bring in slavery, colonialism, oppression, genocide and outright intentional racism into a debate about a thick as pig s*** footballer who obviously meant no harm is a tad overkill.

 

While I understand it, I think we can take what Saylor did in isolation, he hasn't done it before and shown no signs of being in any way racist.

 

I'm not saying Saylor is a racist. But some of the images in the picture kinda harken back to some of those sentiments (the gollywog-esque face, the random African). Now I don't believe for a second Saylor intentionally put it all together like that's not an excuse.

 

People on here are attempting to excuse Saylor because he's an idiot and doesn't realise what he's done (and he clearly hasn't/doesn't realise).

 

I agree that being an idiot isn't an excuse, well I suppose it's a part excuse imo. He'll get punished and rightly so. I do wonder sometimes how people (not just footballers) still do things like that without any common sense or understanding of what there doing.

[Guest chicken little]

 

 

On a slightly related point, take note of all the white people saying they see nothing wrong with, and aren't offended by this kind of crap.

 

What has happened is probably a joke between friends which wasn't intended as racism, one of those on the receiving end has said as much.  Why should white people be offended if somebody on the receiving end isn't?

 

Get a grip.

 

Not really my point, old chap: my problem is with people who've probably never had to deal with racism at all telling people that have what they should/shouldn't be offended by.

 

[Guest bimpy474]

It was just a joke by the way.

And a good one!

 

Just before anyone says it, I'm not saying it's alright to be horrible to fat people

 

I hint at it, well more out of fear as she is a big woman, hands like Andre the Giant like.

[Guest bimpy474]

 

 

On a slightly related point, take note of all the white people saying they see nothing wrong with, and aren't offended by this kind of crap.

 

What has happened is probably a joke between friends which wasn't intended as racism, one of those on the receiving end has said as much.  Why should white people be offended if somebody on the receiving end isn't?

 

Get a grip.

 

Not really my point, old chap: my problem is with people who've probably never had to deal with racism at all telling people that have what they should/shouldn't be offended by.

 

 

Fair point, one of my longest friends is Indian, I watched him get racially abused at school, under the guise of banter, mickey taking. Looking back it was hideous stuff and so wrong.

 

Then I've watched my same friend get chucked out of a nightclub for being drunk and acting like a dick. Then accuse the bouncers of chucking him out because he was brown (his words at the time, not mine).

[Theregulars]

It's just so unnecessary.

[Mick]

 

 

Racism is not about ignorance.

 

In any case.. I believe Taylor's compared a few of our black lads to a darkened-up man with comic Gollywogesque lips, some type of tribal African man and some other black dude for good measure. If that's not ignorant I don't know what is.

 

If racism wasn't about ignorance, what was it about? 

 

I'm not trying to defend Taylor, he's a prick for what he's done, I'm just not convinced that he's guilty of anything more than having nowt between his ears.

[Wullie]

He should have included a picture of an Aga cooker.

[Mick]

 

 

Not really my point, old chap: my problem is with people who've probably never had to deal with racism at all telling people that have what they should/shouldn't be offended by.

 

 

That's fair enough, I've said as much myself that I haven't been on the wrong end of racism, I haven't been on either end of it.  I think the fact that those who were on the receiving end of Taylor's poor attempt of humour weren't offended by it should put it to bed as they know the context of it.

 

People have compared Taylor to Ferdinand, Ferdinand used "Choc-ice" as an insult, it doesn't appear that Taylor was attempting to insult anybody, although he has.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

What he tweeted was/is unacceptable because as Parky said you cannot, not in this day and age, take the piss out of people by way of their skin color, certainly not in public. But lets not get carried away here and start crediting Taylor as a racist or punish him for racism. That he posted was silly and inappropriate, and offensive. He needs to know that. But if he gets labeled a racist and punished as one that's just taking things too far. I mean there is lots of racial innuendo on here with regards the posters Mike and Oldtype... where do we stop?!