littlelunchbox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The pair of you are like decrepit old women, man. We don't play aesthetically pleasing football and we haven't done so for the vast majority of the season. This obviously can't be addressed until June. Get over it. thank you for the insight nostradamus now we cant wait for june. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If that is the performance at the start of the season, would u be that mad? i rlly think the expectation has risen to a ridiculous level. ridiculous? righto, it's nothing of the sort, it's being able to watch football objectively and apply the knowledge and experience i have from watching for nearly 30 years and applying it to what i see from pardew....as much as sky would have you believe otherwise not much changes in football which is why i quote alpal: The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. the bit in bold i've quoted 'cause this is exactly where i am right now, i believe i know which way it's going to go with pardew as i've seen it over the years and been saying it here for weeks, over the course of a season his tactics aren't changing or improving, teams have worked us out, prior to yesterday we'd drawn 2 home games and by all accounts we were pretty close to that again yesterday with the away team again playing the better football, is anything inaccurate with that assessment? the point is that we're a razor's edge from the wins being defeats and don't have a coherent style of play to fall back on when results aren't there, nor a plan b in any way shape or form by the way, the bit i didn't highlight from alpal was the bit i don't necessarily agree with, we're not at the point of being able to beat the top 6 yet or rather expect to beat them would be a better way to put it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The pair of you are like decrepit old women, man. We don't play aesthetically pleasing football and we haven't done so for the vast majority of the season. This obviously can't be addressed until June. Get over it. fair enough, i'd be interested to know what you've in pardew that makes you so sure he's willing, capable or even feels the need to address it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 After williamson dallied on rhe ball resulting in a shot for norwich the camera cuts to pardew who shouts hatem f***ing clear it. How about shouting at williamson you f***ing idiot. Ben arfa actually retained possession. Enrique copped the same verbal blowdrying from Fat Sam, for actually playing the ball out from the back - on the deck. Enrique was playing to the same drum beat of his football upbringing, back in Spain. Allardyce nearly & singlehandedly destroyed the lad in his first year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tyson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Man-management issues aside, that was pretty much the match-day scenario under Souness. Ironic that genuine 'match-winners' were also belittled in public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewJerseyMag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 everything else aside (i couldn't see the game here) was he playing a CM of perch & guthrie/gosling and cabaye in a wide area, with jonas at FB? that's what i was told by a lad listening on the radio surely none of that can be right? first half attack cisse ba hba midfield of cabaye perch guthrie defence of jonas colo willo simpson second half a few changes went back to 442 and then 4411 sholas ended up playing as right wing did pretty well actually and gosling was playing behind BA. and, again i'm led to believe, depsite all those changes we never really managed to get the ball down and play nor dominate norwich, norwich i'm just not on board with pards like, great we're 6th but what alpal said is pretty much on the money yep, and to think, we were playing the same exact shoddy type of s*** last time round when we got raped 4-2 by the same norwich i think its a great indication of how bad the teams are below us, then yet again they seem be able to get points off us or even beat us quite often. leaves me to the question, how the f*** are we in 6th. the mind boggles. Reason is the PL isn't have as good as the propaganda would have you believe. Other than the current top 4/5, the league is dire IMO. The bottom 5 teams are total gash, no better than Championship sides. Just goes to show the gap is widening between the haves and have nots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday. We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiemag Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday. We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us? Swansea at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home, West Brom at home. Definately more points on offer in those games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 show me a team that's ever managed to maintain their place by eeking out wins when performing poorly and being outplayed in most games on their home turf it can be sustained for a while, but it always catches teams up if pardew doesn't change to better exploit the talent he has at his disposal then it'll catch him / us up sooner rather than, i guarantee it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 We weren't outplayed for any prolonged periods yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Fair enough. We clearly created the better chances and more of them, but in general play I felt they passed it about impressively including some brilliant cross-field switches. When they knocked one straight out late on I said to the bloke next to me that if was one of the first basic passing errors I could remember them making all match. We were chasing shadows far too often, the fact that many people have James Perch as their man of the match tells you everything. Absolutely. Of course because we won people will come up with lots of stats to try and convince us we didn't see what we saw, but the truth is the difference between the two teams were the strikers. Like I said earlier in this thread, if Norwich had Ba and Cisse they would have beaten us comfortably because they were superior everywhere else on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 i'll retract this bit: "and being outplayed in most games on their home turf" and make the point that we can't outplay teams on our home turf often enough more often than not when i see home games nowadays the away team is playing the better football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday. We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us? Swansea at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home, West Brom at home. Definately more points on offer in those games. Wolves/Sunderland yeah & individual circumstances still decided those games. Swansea/Wbrom i wouldnt say we could have expected much more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 "We have been a little bit unlucky in the last few weeks and it was just great to get back to three points," Krul told nufc.co.uk. "Today was a game we had to win, and we did just that. It was a really important win, especially with the run we have been on. "The thing the manager said was to try and get a goal in the first 10-15 minutes, because that would make it easier. Interesting quote from Krul. They definately went for it for that period of time & then relaxed to much after the goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday. We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us? Swansea at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home, West Brom at home. Definately more points on offer in those games. Wolves/Sunderland yeah & individual circumstances still decided those games. Swansea/Wbrom i wouldnt say we could have expected much more. We drew 0-0 with Swansea and lost 2-3 against West Brom at home. Both teams currently ranked 8th and 12th respectively. Maybe we just have different expectations, if we are targeting Europe and beyond, using Pip's formula in the OP of the "Battle for 7th" thread, these are teams that we should be beating at home. I'm curious why you think we couldn't (shouldn't?) expect more than a total 1 point out of the potential 6 on offer?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Who are these missing players that will bring balance and have us firing on all cylinders. Raylor? What rhetorical guff. His post-match responses often don't correlate imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The last thing u can criticize pardew us his record against the weaker teams. He is the best since Bobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The last thing u can criticize pardew us his record against the weaker teams. He is the best since Bobby. Not a great honour tbh given that after SBR, we had jokers/fraud like Fat Sam and Souness managing the club. If we continue playing defensive hoofball against these weaker teams even at home, there is a reasonably high chance of us screwing things up(i.e. West Brom, Swanswa, Wolves and Sunderland) which would hurt our chances for Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Funny how some people claim Simpson/williamson and Raylor etc are the reason we hoof it. If they are such weak links, why are they undroppable, being handed new contracts and touted as key players? Its because *drumroll* Pardew rates them, they fit into his system. We may very well get new defenders as those in charge and actually have a f***ing say about who we bring in, see our defense as a weak link. But it wont make the tiniest difference,how we play now is he we are going to play for the foreseeable future. He has been here for 1.5 years now and the fotball isnt getting better, its getting worse. With better players. How can you not see that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was Newcastle player. That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers. Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do. Just broadening the debate is all I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game. Could've fooled me. We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out. The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop. Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday. We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us? Swansea at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home, West Brom at home. Definately more points on offer in those games. Wolves/Sunderland yeah & individual circumstances still decided those games. Swansea/Wbrom i wouldnt say we could have expected much more. We drew 0-0 with Swansea and lost 2-3 against West Brom at home. Both teams currently ranked 8th and 12th respectively. Maybe we just have different expectations, if we are targeting Europe and beyond, using Pip's formula in the OP of the "Battle for 7th" thread, these are teams that we should be beating at home. I'm curious why you think we couldn't (shouldn't?) expect more than a total 1 point out of the potential 6 on offer?? You'd expect to win looking at them yeah. Swansea achieved their lowest poss all season in our game, went all out defence & theyre hard enough to score against when they dont do that as Man city found out. If you remember there was barely any space in the box atall, Ba had to do acrobatic overheads to get a shot that wasnt blocked & it was still saved. He also hit the post. Dont think we could have done much more. West Brom was just our defense for me due to having 1 Cb. 2 goals should be enough to get points from a game. Only Spurs/Arsenal/Swansea have put 3 past wbrom all season & swansea needed a penalty. So that leaves 2 sides who managed it & theyre 2 of the best attacking sides in the league. Possible to do? Yes. But no chance can we expect it. We just conceded to many. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? It will stop working because we play with very little margin, and the other teams strikers are usually the difference between three and zero points. Bluntly said, it leaves things to sheer chance. We are 29 games in, but I would still claim that our luck this season has been above average. Come next season I can see similar performances ending up vastly different resultswise. The fact that he was reluctant to change the team that did so well the first 12-13 matches indicates one thing - he had no clue what caused the results. Its a cowardly hands-off approach that implied that he was basically crossing his fingers for it to continue. If he did, he wouldnt have hesitated improving on his squad by using better players when they became available, Ben Arfa case in point. To put it this way, Would Real Madrid win the majority of their games without Ronaldo? Man Utd without Rooney? Yes they probably would, most definately actually. Still, Ferguson and Mourinho would have no qualms easeing them back into the squad the second they were fit again. Why? Because they are better fotballers than the ones they replace, and therefore they make the team better. That doesnt upset a system. It improves it. You start your best players, simple as. Oh, and before anyone try the cheap point of ridiculing me for comparing Ronaldo and Rooney to Ben Arfa. The point is relevant because he is one of our best players, just like they are for their respective teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 classic NO forum "debate" going on again: Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run... Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man repeat until pardew is fired We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side. In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working? you've mentioned the two parts of pardew's gameplan which i agree is essentially the basis of his approach, then you ask how will it suddenly stop working? i'll tell you how; given the inherent complexity of the plan all it takes is for either the defence to become more porous or the attackers to be unable to keep scoring from the scraps they're given by launching the ball up the field every single time it's a system that requires both to work all of the time, if you have a system and approach that includes the midfield doing creative things and the team as a whole coached to build attacks together through passing football then that adds another dimension that has to fail completely before results start going south it's fairly simple Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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