midds Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I'm fast losing patience with him. Not because he's done a bad job, because he hasn't, but because he's making the same mistakes and not learning from them. Very similar to Hughton in that respect. He's now got 2 weeks to come up with something for Wolves who are on a bit a roll. Saturday 3pm kick off means I'm not too hopeful. Our 3 (winnable) remaining home fixtures are scarily close to the Boro, Pompey and Fulham fixtures we had at the end of the season we went down. Sincere question - to which mistakes do you refer? Negative tactics against shit opposition and dreadful use of subs were the main 2 annoyances for me. Some of his starting XI's were a bit too but not all of that was his fault. I'm not having a major pop at Hughton here either btw but he did make mistakes and didn't seem to learn from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Fair enough. I think he was pretty unfortunate with some of those results incidentally - like the Blackpool game which is paraded about so often - but in which we had 13 shots and they had 4. His substitutions were a bit off though, that's true enough. Having said that, wouldn't say that he didn't learn from his mistakes/wasn't progressing, based on the part of my post you cut (for formatting purposes, I assume) and the balance of things he did address compared to what you feel he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Fair enough. I think he was pretty unfortunate with some of those results incidentally - like the Blackpool game which is paraded about so often - but in which we had 13 shots and they had 4. His substitutions were a bit off though, that's true enough. Having said that, wouldn't say that he didn't learn from his mistakes/wasn't progressing, based on the part of my post you cut (for formatting purposes, I assume) and the balance of things he did address compared to what you feel he didn't. we had 13 shots and didn't create one good chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Fair enough. I think he was pretty unfortunate with some of those results incidentally - like the Blackpool game which is paraded about so often - but in which we had 13 shots and they had 4. His substitutions were a bit off though, that's true enough. Having said that, wouldn't say that he didn't learn from his mistakes/wasn't progressing, based on the part of my post you cut (for formatting purposes, I assume) and the balance of things he did address compared to what you feel he didn't. The stuff I cut had no bearing on the mistakes I was talking about. Tactics, starting XI's and subs. (Binning Perch and Smith from the starting line-up's isn't good management it's simply having the power of sight) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Fair enough. I think he was pretty unfortunate with some of those results incidentally - like the Blackpool game which is paraded about so often - but in which we had 13 shots and they had 4. His substitutions were a bit off though, that's true enough. Having said that, wouldn't say that he didn't learn from his mistakes/wasn't progressing, based on the part of my post you cut (for formatting purposes, I assume) and the balance of things he did address compared to what you feel he didn't. The stuff I cut had no bearing on the mistakes I was talking about. Tactics, starting XI's and subs. You might not feel it has a bearing on what you originally referred to, and that's fair enough - it was afterall your point - but if you're looking at whether he displayed capabilities of learning/progression as a manager overall, it still counts. (Binning Perch and Smith from the starting line-up's isn't good management it's simply having the power of sight) Like starting Ranger over Loven? Or keeping our established RB Simpson in his correct position when our LB gets injured? Oh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough. I think he was pretty unfortunate with some of those results incidentally - like the Blackpool game which is paraded about so often - but in which we had 13 shots and they had 4. His substitutions were a bit off though, that's true enough. Having said that, wouldn't say that he didn't learn from his mistakes/wasn't progressing, based on the part of my post you cut (for formatting purposes, I assume) and the balance of things he did address compared to what you feel he didn't. The stuff I cut had no bearing on the mistakes I was talking about. Tactics, starting XI's and subs. You might not feel it has a bearing on what you originally referred to, and that's fair enough - it was afterall your point - but if you're looking at whether he displayed capabilities of learning/progression as a manager overall, it still counts. (Binning Perch and Smith from the starting line-up's isn't good management it's simply having the power of sight) Like starting Ranger over Loven? Or keeping our established RB Simpson in his correct position when our LB gets injured? Oh... Not picking the players who regularly let you down should be a given at any level of management. Playing Simpson out of position is barmy whoever does it. Not quite sure where you're going with this tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 My point was that something you quite sensibly regard as a "given" clearly aren't to all managers - as Lovenkrands has enjoyed continued runs in the team ahead of a fit Nile Ranger/Pardew continues to play people out of position. Hughton also evinced a capability to adapt in playing Barton at RM too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 My point was that something you quite sensibly regard as a "given" clearly aren't to all managers - as Lovenkrands has enjoyed continued runs in the team ahead of a fit Nile Ranger/Pardew continues to play people out of position. Hughton also evinced a capability to adapt in playing Barton at RM too. He also enjoyed a run of playing Danny Guthrie there too which was a disaster - all managers make mistakes. It's how they recover from those mistakes is what's important. (like bringing in Routledge in the CH/playing Barton in the PL). Pardew has made mistakes in these last two games. If he doesn't rectify those mistakes against Wolves and Villa, that is the time to worry. He's to blame but he still has a chance to learn from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 My point was that something you quite sensibly regard as a "given" clearly aren't to all managers - as Lovenkrands has enjoyed continued runs in the team ahead of a fit Nile Ranger/Pardew continues to play people out of position. Hughton also evinced a capability to adapt in playing Barton at RM too. I'm not singling Hughton out. I can't fathom out how Pardew continues to pick Lovenkrands at all, let alone on the wing. Hughton also played Guthrie out of position on the right of midfield and persisted with it. I'd forgotten about that one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. Its most certainly looking that way. Everton humbled us but should have had 5. Stoke was the hiding we avoided last home game. Wolves next - with our home record? I fear the worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. Neither are/were particularly amazing in this league but there's only one that I felt was capable of learning and improving. Importantly I think the players believed it too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. I'd go along with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. Neither are/were particularly amazing in this league but there's only one that I felt was capable of learning and improving. Importantly I think the players believed it too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Dave- you may be right. The momentum we had at the start of the season under Hughton is long gone. I'm not writing Pards off just yet but the great early season wins seem a long time ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Dave- you may be right. The momentum we had at the start of the season under Hughton is long gone. I'm not writing Pards off just yet but the great early season wins seem a long time ago. The loyalty and momentum under Hughton is partly down to the fact that it was his team though - he built it, and they trusted him because of it. No matter who came in, it was going to be hard to get the players on-side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why was Enrique given the go ahead to start this match only to limp out early on? If he isn't fit, why the fuck risk him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Was it the same injury that forced him off today? Should have just played our back-up lef.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why was Enrique given the go ahead to start this match only to limp out early on? If he isn't fit, why the f*** risk him? maybe after asking him and examining him they thought he was fit enough ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yep, hamstring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yep, hamstring. That's fucking crackers too then. I'm assuming he passed a fitness test before the game? What the fuck's going on man? Honestly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I assume they asked him how he felt too. Rather than "Leg....sore..." "Ah you'll be fine Joe-say. Get your arse up them apples and pears and onto the pitch" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I think it's fair to say that both Hughton and Pardew are desperately flawed as managers. "Desperately flawed" is ridiculously harsh on Hughton like. What has he done to deserve that tag? Which Premier League managers aren't that given the state of the league table? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why was Enrique given the go ahead to start this match only to limp out early on? If he isn't fit, why the f*** risk him? maybe after asking him and examining him they thought he was fit enough ? Well they were proved spectacularly wrong. Again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Why was Enrique given the go ahead to start this match only to limp out early on? If he isn't fit, why the f*** risk him? maybe after asking him and examining him they thought he was fit enough ? Well they were proved spectacularly wrong. Again. many players carry knocks and niggles into games......should we only play those 100% fit ? we'd need a squad of more than the regulation 25. i don't know what his injury was like going into today (well yesterday) do you ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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