Ash Bashers

[TRon]

 

you don't get points for suggesting hypothetical events that may not be on the right track, let alone happen ....

 

.....All I've queried is why the players aren't appearing to be as outraged or upset as some sections of our support would have you believe we should be. This perhaps indicates that there are important things happening at the club which the fans aren't aware of or there is someone/some people who do an incredible job of looking after the players and making them believe that NE1 is right for them.

 

Why is your theory any less conjecture than anyone else's? Unless you have some evidence that "there is someone/some people who do an incredible job of looking after the players and making them believe that NE1 is right for them".

 

 

 

Because my suggestion is exactly that, a suggestion. The Ash Bashers are pronouncing the end of NUFC as we know it and that all the negative tripe is fact (see the HBA thread for a pertinent example).

 

I'll freely admit that I don't have the reason why the players' views appear to be in contrast to the fans, that's why I started the thread. Perhaps a bit of 'blue sky thinking' can help to put the state of the club into perspective?

 

With all the negativity flowing through the place, I'm curious to know why this hasn't filtered through to the players. i.e. "the club's losing its core supporters, Ashley will be struggling to half-fill the stadium next season" - why would any half-decent player want to associate his career with the terminal decline of NUFC if the writing is on the wall?

 

Because they are on big wages which are unlikely to be matched elsewhere I would imagine. Like others have said, let's see what the situation is like when these players have to negotiate new contracts.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

The fans remain cautious simply because they are not privy to the same information regarding the plans for the club that the players and the staff are.

 

Seems to make sense, given what we've said in the thread already. What kind of things would the players have been told in private that would give them faith in the regime?

 

I'm thinking along the lines of:

 

- mid-to-long term plans;

- prospects of buying additional players;

- personal reassurances regarding contract renewals;

- development of the youth team etc.

 

In any other business (and football, no matter how much we skirt around it, is a business), such information would be deemed confidential (see the furore surrounding Enrique's tweets earlier in the week for a (sorta) example of this).

 

It doesn't surprise me that we only make the rags when something bad happens.  That's the modern press for you, which is exactly why I focus on the results we get on the pitch, rather than if Llambias left a floater on the club bus.

[Cronky]

Supporters aren't all of one mind on this issue. I get the impression that this board is more critical of Ashley than the average collection of supporters would be, and even within this board, there's shades of opinion. It's a common enough view that, although he's made mistakes, there have been some good developments, and things are now moving forward.

 

When I read many anti-Ashley posts, I feel there's an air of anger and revenge that clouds people's judgement. Particularly over the Keegan issue.

 

As for the players and other staff, the view of the insider is often different from that of the outsider. That's true in so many aspects of public life, not just football. The outsider just measures things against how they would ideally like them to be. The insider is more aware of the practicalities, and the realities behind the difficult decisions that someone in authority has to make.

[Frazzle]

Looking at at objectively, it doesn't get much worse than relegation.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

Looking at at objectively, it doesn't get much worse than relegation.

 

That's not objective.  You're insinuating that it was Ashley's fault that we got relegated.  Managerial changes and causational conjecture aside, the players were equally responsible for taking us down.  The blame cannot be attributed solely to the board.

 

Playing devil's advocate and with the advantage of hindsight, the relegation enabled us to get rid of the dead weight and build something resembling a "good group of lads", which has enabled us to box above our weight on occasions during the course of this season.  During our time in the Championship, we managed to develop some of the younger players, most notably Carroll, and we are now a few players away from being a solid mid-table side.

 

Swings and roundabouts.   

[UV]

The fans remain cautious simply because they are not privy to the same information regarding the plans for the club that the players and the staff are.

 

Seems to make sense, given what we've said in the thread already. What kind of things would the players have been told in private that would give them faith in the regime?

 

Lies?

[Mr Logic]

If it wasn't very clear in the OP, I'm trying to reconcile how the senior players seem to have a completely different view to the direction of the club than the supporters (on N-O) do.

 

Probably because they have a damn sight better idea of what IS going on and don't have the feeling some part of themselves are invested so heavily in the institution that is Newcastle United. Despite Barton's probably pertinent observation that most footballers were completely out of touch with reality it's still just a job for them, albeit one most of us can't really comprehend.

 

I feel no love for Ashley but I can't loath him either. My biggest problem with him is his apparent insular nature, the lack of communication - or perhaps more specifically the deliberate miscommunications. Treating us the way he treats Sports Direct customers is probably not the best way to go about things.

 

As to Ashley saying he'd 'splash the cash', I don't know that he did say that, sounds more like classic tabloid journalism, but maybe he had earmarked a considerable sum for transfers before he discovered just how precarious the club was financially, and correcting that position consumed all those funds.

 

At the end of the day Ashley makes his decisions and be damned to anyone else, popular opinion would appear to be a spur to him to act in a contrary manner at times.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

If it wasn't very clear in the OP, I'm trying to reconcile how the senior players seem to have a completely different view to the direction of the club than the supporters (on N-O) do.

 

Probably because they have a damn sight better idea of what IS going on and don't have the feeling some part of themselves are invested so heavily in the institution that is Newcastle United. Despite Barton's probably pertinent observation that most footballers were completely out of touch with reality it's still just a job for them, albeit one most of us can't really comprehend.

 

I feel no love for Ashley but I can't loath him either. My biggest problem with him is his apparent insular nature, the lack of communication - or perhaps more specifically the deliberate miscommunications. Treating us the way he treats Sports Direct customers is probably not the best way to go about things.

 

As to Ashley saying he'd 'splash the cash', I don't know that he did say that, sounds more like classic tabloid journalism, but maybe he had earmarked a considerable sum for transfers before he discovered just how precarious the club was financially, and correcting that position consumed all those funds.

 

At the end of the day Ashley makes his decisions and be damned to anyone else, popular opinion would appear to be a spur to him to act in a contrary manner at times.

 

I cannot disagree with any of this.

[Frazzle]

Looking at at objectively, it doesn't get much worse than relegation.

 

That's not objective.  You're insinuating that it was Ashley's fault that we got relegated.  Managerial changes and causational conjecture aside, the players were equally responsible for taking us down.  The blame cannot be attributed solely to the board.

 

Playing devil's advocate and with the advantage of hindsight, the relegation enabled us to get rid of the dead weight and build something resembling a "good group of lads", which has enabled us to box above our weight on occasions during the course of this season.  During our time in the Championship, we managed to develop some of the younger players, most notably Carroll, and we are now a few players away from being a solid mid-table side.

 

Swings and roundabouts.   

 

I didn't insinuate anything.  Interpret things how you like.

 

A solid mid table side?  A bit like in 2007 then.

[TRon]

Supporters aren't all of one mind on this issue. I get the impression that this board is more critical of Ashley than the average collection of supporters would be, and even within this board, there's shades of opinion. It's a common enough view that, although he's made mistakes, there have been some good developments, and things are now moving forward.

 

When I read many anti-Ashley posts, I feel there's an air of anger and revenge that clouds people's judgement. Particularly over the Keegan issue.

 

As for the players and other staff, the view of the insider is often different from that of the outsider. That's true in so many aspects of public life, not just football. The outsider just measures things against how they would ideally like them to be. The insider is more aware of the practicalities, and the realities behind the difficult decisions that someone in authority has to make.

 

That's my view as well. I don't consider myself anti-Ashley in particular but I don't think either him or Llambias have much idea about football. So when the decision is made to sack Hughton and bring in a manager like Pardew I think it's fair to expect some high level consideration to have gone into it. Pardew isn't a Jol or a Owen Coyle who most football people could see the reasoning for appointing. It might well turn out to be a master stroke decision - but to be honest it needs to be because there could be no other reason to have done it.

 

[Dr Venkman]

Supporters aren't all of one mind on this issue. I get the impression that this board is more critical of Ashley than the average collection of supporters would be, and even within this board, there's shades of opinion. It's a common enough view that, although he's made mistakes, there have been some good developments, and things are now moving forward.

 

When I read many anti-Ashley posts, I feel there's an air of anger and revenge that clouds people's judgement. Particularly over the Keegan issue.

 

As for the players and other staff, the view of the insider is often different from that of the outsider. That's true in so many aspects of public life, not just football. The outsider just measures things against how they would ideally like them to be. The insider is more aware of the practicalities, and the realities behind the difficult decisions that someone in authority has to make.

 

That's my view as well. I don't consider myself anti-Ashley in particular but I don't think either him or Llambias have much idea about football. So when the decision is made to sack Hughton and bring in a manager like Pardew I think it's fair to expect some high level consideration to have gone into it. Pardew isn't a Jol or a Owen Coyle who most football people could see the reasoning for appointing. It might well turn out to be a master stroke decision - but to be honest it needs to be because there could be no other reason to have done it.

 

 

 

apart from providing a manager that knows he's lucky to be in the job and wont put up any sort of argument to whatever the owner wants to do.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Ashley makes some decisions that utterly defy logic, because I think it's safe to say that he likely doesn't have much use for logic.  He's the asshole in the casino who will put his house up based on a notion.  A combination of luck and instinct have served him very well so far in business.

 

However, the colossal flaw in operating NUFC in such away is that lady luck turned her ass cheeks toward this club 50 years ago.  His good fortune will have been completely counteracted by the Magpie Effect.

 

For the non-troll, his position is at this point completely indefensible.  I don't see how much is going to change.  He will probably go dormant for a year or two, right up until a thread asks if Ashley is now forgiven.  And then the poison gas is released.  A cycle is clearly manifesting here.

[Stu]

For the non-troll, his position is at this point completely indefensible.  I don't see how much is going to change.  He will probably go dormant for a year or two, right up until a thread asks if Ashley is now forgiven.  And then the poison gas is released.  A cycle is clearly manifesting here.

 

 

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

but as a troll appreciater, I can see that Ashley's position is completely defensible, as long as it pisses of a critical mass of posters.

[Guest guinness_fiend]

For the non-troll, his position is at this point completely indefensible.  I don't see how much is going to change.  He will probably go dormant for a year or two, right up until a thread asks if Ashley is now forgiven.  And then the poison gas is released.  A cycle is clearly manifesting here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vinny Green Balls]

pardon, a good troll appreciator. 

[Stu]

HBA and Caroll staying with the club long-term?

[Benwell Lad]

I have never found the anti-Ashley feeling around town and amongst those who attend the matches to be as strong as it is on web forums and in the national press. Even at the height of the Anti-Ashley frenzy - post Hughton - I'd doubt if more than 1 in 50 people in the ground were singing about him - but it did make a convenient story for the nationals once again.

 

That said there aren't any Ashley fan clubs either, more just a pragmatic realisation that without him and his money the club was going to the wall and that with the business standing him something like £300M he is entitled to call the shots whether it pleases the masses or not.

Overall I'd also say most people I talk to and drink with prefer today's way of doing transfer business to the "Hollywood" nature of days gone by and think the club is generally in better shape than it was 5 years ago.