Graham Carr

[TRon]

 

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

 

Rivière is the only one that you'd call a complete failure but Carr doesn't sanction them does he? Cabella will be fine we saw against Chelsea what he can do. He's been our highest chance creator by a mile. It's been done to death but it's fairly well known he brings a list to them, and they pick them off. It's fairly obvs they aren't going for the first choices

 

I agree. Cabella is lightweight, no one is denying that, but he can spot a good pass and put in a decent delivery when gets by a player. Plus he looks like he's got goals in him provided we can get some sort of functioning formation. I think he'll get better every season in English football as well.

[simonlemagnifique]

I think the best thing about this club the last few years has been our signings.

 

HBA, Cabaye, Sissoko, Janmaat, Perez, MYM, Ba, Debuchy... (even Cisse though inconsistent can be an incredible goal scorer and he's really the one player likely to net us the 3 points to keep us up this season). I find it very hard indeed to criticise Carr when he's been so good.

 

In a world where spending £40m on Ozil coached by Wenger doesn't guarantee success, I think Carr has done incredible work to get so many players in who have performed, even whilst hamstrung by Pardew and his staff.

 

The main problems at this club are clear, and they have been consistent for years, and they all stem from the fat man, his disdain for the supporters and his non existent desire to compete: SD & lack of communication; poor coaching recruitment; lack of investment in players. The one thing that really, really has not been bad has been the quality of the player recruitment, given the clear financial and negotiating constraints. Criticism of the quality of players recruited in this light is laughable to be honest.

[The College Dropout]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

 

As has already been mentioned though, these are often 4th or 5th options down the list because Charnley/Ashley are always looking for a bargain rather than proven quality. How did we end up with Marveaux for example?

 

Because he was going for free, talented & cheap. That's it.

 

Riviere 3rd or 4th choice I can accept. But not the £15m on De Jong & Cabella. Those were #1 or #2 choices. Cabella was brought in to play under Alan Pardew, i'm sure Carr has seen Pardew-ball a plenty by now. We needed lads with that bit of individual magic. A Remy, Ba or HBA. Or at the very worst a real athlete with some decent ability ala Sissoko. Cabella doesn't look suited to the team or the division.

 

IMO we started off in the French market getting established players for less than their true value. HBA, Cabaye, Sissoko, MYM - all bargains based on reputations alone. But that's where it's stopped. The deals to bring them in was top notch but none of them where "unearthed gems" like a Perez is showing.

[Kanj]

I think people are quite naive if they can simply blame a scout for players not panning out.

 

1) None of us know exactly what the "list" is when we are going after a player in a certain need position

2) None of us know how high up or far down a list player is - but can probably assume based on how high they were billed or often linked

3) Carr is a chief scout, he's not a coach, nor is he manager. it is not his job to select the teams, etc.

4) The fact the same argument gets beaten the f*** to death despite how CLEARLY obvious its been that we've had a bunch of quacks coaching these players for the entire time we've had these Carr players, hence the lack of development or regression.

5) We have no squad depth or competition, so the natural instinct of athletes / lack of club and manager ambition or drive breeds obvious complacency, which either you accept and just collect your pay or you find your first way the f*** out of here (see: Ba, Cabaye, Debuchy

6) My belief is that these players all first thought and were sold that we could challenge for something (the Ba, Cabaye, Cisse, HBA 5th season) and when that summer after did nothing but sign Anita, the entire squad figured it the f*** out.

7) What you can blame him for, is suitability to the league, and if someone just clearly fucking blows or is clearly an awful player - fair enough.

8) He could very much be implicit in this scam of a club, and if so...well, you know.

 

Anyway, an argument that's been done over about 5,000 times - we are a club run by some unqualified s*** staff accountant as a Chairman, an Owner who's sucking us dry, and a coaching setup that would be fired and sent packing in any other club in the English football professional system.

 

There's literally no basis to judge any of these players Carr has scouted - they have flickers of hope, moments of brilliance, s*** tactics, s*** club mission/ambition, and they are surrounded by the likes of some jack wagons like Mike Williamson and Obertan.

[Mattoon]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

 

As has already been mentioned though, these are often 4th or 5th options down the list because Charnley/Ashley are always looking for a bargain rather than proven quality. How did we end up with Marveaux for example?

 

Because he was going for free, talented & cheap. That's it.

 

Riviere 3rd or 4th choice I can accept. But not the £15m on De Jong & Cabella. Those were #1 or #2 choices. Cabella was brought in to play under Alan Pardew, i'm sure Carr has seen Pardew-ball a plenty by now. We needed lads with that bit of individual magic. A Remy, Ba or HBA. Or at the very worst a real athlete with some decent ability ala Sissoko. Cabella doesn't look suited to the team or the division.

 

IMO we started off in the French market getting established players for less than their true value. HBA, Cabaye, Sissoko, MYM - all bargains based on reputations alone. But that's where it's stopped. The deals to bring them in was top notch but none of them where "unearthed gems" like a Perez is showing.

 

You're also missing the criteria of the purchase lists he has to make, cheap/free players running/run out of contract or unhappy at their team, dangle the carrot, get them at knock down prices and tie them into a long contract on peanuts. They either perform well and get sold on at a profit or we run down their cheap contract and rake the hit on the peanuts we've spent on them, pretty much risk free.

 

Did you also notice during that whole paragraph I didn't mention anything about who is managing the team or what positions we require? That's because it's last on our list of priorities, Carr cannot be blamed for picking the wrong players because that's not in his remit.

[ads]

I have seen Cabella have good matches/halves for you; I remember for example the first half against Stoke (a pretty physical team), where he was extremely active. He's just the kind of player that needs movement around him. Whenever I watch you it's pretty damn obvious that the guys upfront are woefully isolated; many times Cabella or Ayoze pull off a decent bit of skill and find themselves completely without options.

 

It's also a mistake to see him as the HBA replacement. He's more of an advanced playmaker; he's Iniesta, not Messi (if we go with the Barça comparisons).

 

 

Yep. There was a moment on Saturday where Abeid had the ball, ended up passing it backwards and the crowd got restless. There was nothing on, everyone just stood still it was embarrassing. He was motioning for players to move and give him options but nobody was. Truly awful.

[TRon]

I have seen Cabella have good matches/halves for you; I remember for example the first half against Stoke (a pretty physical team), where he was extremely active. He's just the kind of player that needs movement around him. Whenever I watch you it's pretty damn obvious that the guys upfront are woefully isolated; many times Cabella or Ayoze pull off a decent bit of skill and find themselves completely without options.

 

It's also a mistake to see him as the HBA replacement. He's more of an advanced playmaker; he's Iniesta, not Messi (if we go with the Barça comparisons).

 

 

Yep. There was a moment on Saturday where Abeid had the ball, ended up passing it backwards and the crowd got restless. There was nothing on, everyone just stood still it was embarrassing. He was motioning for players to move and give him options but nobody was. Truly awful.

 

What's even more awful is that Abeid isn't starting a game where we are conceding 3 goals at home. You would think a box to box hard tackling midfielder might stiffen us up a bit defensively, but no...Jonas and Ryan Taylor are preferred.

[KaKa]

Jonas and Raylor ahead of arguably our most impressive central midfielder this season.

 

Incomprehensible.

[The College Dropout]

Abeid has been poor under Carver (with many reasons) but Raylor and Jonas are just awful

[Mattoon]

Abeid has been poor under Carver (with many reasons) but Raylor and Jonas are just awful

 

They've all been awful under Carver, Abied's one of the least worst but seems to be Carver's HBA.

[TRon]

Abeid has been poor under Carver (with many reasons) but Raylor and Jonas are just awful

 

Even a poor Abeid should be in the team, the lad runs non-stop for 90 mins. If we had 11 players doing that, would we be conceding 3 goals at home against Swansea?

 

 

[The College Dropout]

We've had these arguments so many times over the last few seasons. Marveaux was too lightweight - we got rid. Ben Arfa didn' track back - we got rid. Yet here we are still losing 7 on the bounce. Maybe when we sell Cabella we'll finally win games with a frog free first eleven.

That's not the logic anybody is following except you. I don't even know how you've got to that conclusion.

 

We are talking about the scouting of our players. Janmaat looks a great acquisition. Perez a bargain and very promising. Depending on wages - Colback looks a decent signing too. But we spent over £20m on three attacking transfers. 1 has no record of being a goalscorer, another an extensive injury record and the last doesn't look to be suited to the division. So i'm questioning some of the decisions made by our Chief Scout.

 

As has already been mentioned though, these are often 4th or 5th options down the list because Charnley/Ashley are always looking for a bargain rather than proven quality. How did we end up with Marveaux for example?

 

Because he was going for free, talented & cheap. That's it.

 

Riviere 3rd or 4th choice I can accept. But not the £15m on De Jong & Cabella. Those were #1 or #2 choices. Cabella was brought in to play under Alan Pardew, i'm sure Carr has seen Pardew-ball a plenty by now. We needed lads with that bit of individual magic. A Remy, Ba or HBA. Or at the very worst a real athlete with some decent ability ala Sissoko. Cabella doesn't look suited to the team or the division.

 

IMO we started off in the French market getting established players for less than their true value. HBA, Cabaye, Sissoko, MYM - all bargains based on reputations alone. But that's where it's stopped. The deals to bring them in was top notch but none of them where "unearthed gems" like a Perez is showing.

 

What are you basing that one? We previously wanted Lacazette/PEA/Grenier but wouldnt pay the money.  Cabella is out performing sissoko in most of his stats, so what are you basing your assertion that "he's not suited to the league"?

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/newcastles-remy-cabella-contender-espn-8580149

 

You can't categorically write him off based on this team

Only one of those is an AM. None of those are really wide players except perhaps PEA who was not realistic.

 

Forget the stats man. Sissoko has been poor for half the season. He's still been better than Cabella overall. If you look at the stats Colback is way better at playing the killer ball than Cabella/Sissoko combined. Cabella is weak and his performances have been substandard. Thee's other factors aye but he's been poor.

 

We could have spent that £12m better.

[The College Dropout]

Abeid has been poor under Carver (with many reasons) but Raylor and Jonas are just awful

 

Even a poor Abeid should be in the team, the lad runs non-stop for 90 mins. If we had 11 players doing that, would we be conceding 3 goals at home against Swansea?

 

 

 

Why have you quoted me? I've agreed Abeid should be ahead of those lads in the pecking order. However, not because he runs around a lot. For one he actually knows that position and how to play it. Unlike the other two.

[mrmojorisin75]

I have seen Cabella have good matches/halves for you; I remember for example the first half against Stoke (a pretty physical team), where he was extremely active. He's just the kind of player that needs movement around him. Whenever I watch you it's pretty damn obvious that the guys upfront are woefully isolated; many times Cabella or Ayoze pull off a decent bit of skill and find themselves completely without options.

 

It's also a mistake to see him as the HBA replacement. He's more of an advanced playmaker; he's Iniesta, not Messi (if we go with the Barça comparisons).

 

I came in to post this (more or less) in response to ronaldos latest proclamation that cabella isn't physically up to it...I was wondering how he was ghosting past the Chelsea midfield and defence looking every bit a 15m player in one of the only games under carver where the team played with confidence and movement, for a half

 

it's ben arfa all over again ffs...declare the player incapable in a team that is completely disfunctional

 

cabella will be a good player with movement around him, no doubt in my mind

[The College Dropout]

HBA would sometime run down cul-de-sacs. Nobody ever accused him of being weak.

[mrmojorisin75]

HBA would sometime run down cul-de-sacs. Nobody ever accused him of being weak.

 

footballers always 'sometimes' do things they shouldn't

 

the hba thing was always an argument between he's greedy and trying to do it all himself and 9 other players standing still in straight lines whenever he got the ball meaning he had to try to do it all himself

 

the reality is somewhere in the middle but much closer to the standing still bit imo

 

cabella is suffering from the same thing, if he's *just* weak why weren't terry, matic and cahill just knocking him off the ball instead of chasing his shadow for 45 minutes?

[TRon]

Unfortunately when you get shit managers like Pardew and Carver who have no idea how to coach movement, when other teams invariably out pass us, the easy excuse is that French players aren't hard enough.

[Kanj]

HBA was actually quite strong with holding the ball up tbh.

[Ikon]

He was. Good at shielding the ball. Good balance as well! I miss him

[Kanj]

bah man, leaves an absolute poor feeling the fact we had the likes of HBA in our team and he was shoved out by this club.

[Ikon]

I'm sure that Cabella would be quality in a different team as many of you have mentioned. A team playing football would be a good start!

[The College Dropout]

HBA was actually quite strong with holding the ball up tbh.

Aye.

[The College Dropout]

I'm sure Gouffran could look decent in a good team too.

[TRon]

I'm sure Gouffran could look decent in a good team too.

 

I don't think he could look anything but ordinary. I think he's supposed to be a striker nominally, but even if he was played up front I don't think he's got many goals in him.

[The College Dropout]

He looked decent fro the first year or so he was here.