Mr. Snrub Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If anyone tries saying Zidane was more consistent over the course of full seasons than Iniesta has been then they must be having me on. Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. No. Just no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 If anyone tries saying Zidane was more consistent over the course of full seasons than Iniesta has been then they must be having me on. Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. He really hasn't been more key Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. No. Just no. So how did Zidane only manage 1 league title and 1 CL in his 5 years at Madrid during the galacticos era? Both have won their country World Cups and Iniesta has more Euro Championships. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta is great, but firmly a level below where Zidane was imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. No. Just no. So how did Zidane only manage 1 league title and 1 CL in his 5 years at Madrid during the galacticos era? Both have won their country World Cups and Iniesta has more Euro Championships. If that's your argument, going by statistics then I really don't have an answer for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. No. Just no. So how did Zidane only manage 1 league title and 1 CL in his 5 years at Madrid during the galacticos era? Both have won their country World Cups and Iniesta has more Euro Championships. Zidane was the main man in every team he ever played in while Iniesta wasn't as important as Messi for Barca and probably on a par with Xavi for club and country Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Zidane showed up when it mattered, and yes, he had that elegance and aura about him, but he never put it in consistently great performances over the course of a season like Iniesta has been doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Zidane at his best trumps Messi at his best imo. Messi though is better because he produces it more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Zidane at his best trumps Messi at his best imo. Messi though is better because he produces it more. I don't really think Messi v Zidane is that much of a discussion tbh. Messi is in the bracket above IMO, but telling me that Iniesta has been more key for club and country than Zidane is absolutely ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Completely agree with Messi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Iniesta has been more key for both club and country than Zidane ever was. No. Just no. So how did Zidane only manage 1 league title and 1 CL in his 5 years at Madrid during the galacticos era? Both have won their country World Cups and Iniesta has more Euro Championships. Zidane was considerably better than Iniesta at international level. Iniesta was more part of a midfield that controlled games than a standout performer who was the sole difference between his team being utterly rubbish or not. When Zidane "played," France were class - without him they were utterly hopeless (as evinced by their 2002 WC group stage knockout when Zidane was injured iirc). For Madrid there are a large number of factors to consider as to why Zidane didn't win much there. For example: - Perez going and getting rid of Makelele/replacing him with David Beckham. Shoe-horning a long ball merchant into central midfield (a position Beckham really wasn't suitable for at that time) in a side with players who wanted to play slick football wrecked that side's balance, especially since Makelele was absolutely key defensively given the number of attacking players who weren't going to put in a massive shift off the ball in that lineup. - Perez going all Freddy Shepherd and firing Del Bosque for no real reason after winning a league title, and then having a new manager in nearly every season. I think the Madrid job quickly became the biggest poisoned chalice in the sport (after us of course), and this was pointed out by a few pundits/writers iirc. - Key players very quickly declined, but weren't replaced or appropriately challenged by new signings because of that Galatico policy of selling noone, buying one major star - Carlos on his last legs, Ronaldo went fat, untouchable Raul declined pretty quickly, Figo paceless (though still class), Zidane himself declined for a while (2004-2006 he was pretty mediocre), Hierro already finished, etc. It's like Barcelona winning nothing this year - can't really judge Iniesta's greatness based on this, especially if Iniesta starts to decline himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 What the fuck is this fucking thread!? There's just too much mental. Zidane at his best is better than Messi at his best? What!? Just......just WHAT!? ...and then Iniesta's better than Zidane. Not as mental and you could argue it, but that's another big NO from me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hardly Iniesta's fault that he played in a better team in an attacking sense than Zidane. Also Zidane wasn't considerably better at international level than Iniesta at all. Iniesta was sublime in both the 2010 World Cup and Euro 2012. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I just hate that WC success gets so much praise than beaten the best in the CL, which is a much higher level these days especially. Also while we are on the subject of Zidane being better, what a lot of people have forgotten is the very same Zidane was kept quiet in a CL final by Paul Lambert. Because it didn't happen on the international stage it doesn't matter apparently..... Vladimir Smicer has scored in a CL Final. We can play this game all night. There's genuinely (in my lifetime) not a WC final equivalent. When a man's scored 3 goals in world cup Final's we are going to remember. The thing with Messi is he's a part of the greatest club side we've ever seen. A club side so good, it basically won 2 CL's, 2 Euro's & a WC. The best player yes but also in the best team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Messi will be more like Xavi when he slows down imo. His passing and vision even now are on that level, he just has less need to use it. Zidane is really nothing better than Messi imo, I totally get him being more enjoyable to watch in terms of his style but Messi has done things I thought were impossible, whereas Zidane has done wonderful and difficult things and made it look graceful. I don't think he will. He doesn't have that same appreciation of his team-mates as Xavi or Zidane. He holds on to the ball far longer than is necessary these days. I was lucky enough to see Messi in the flesh this season, it was the first time I noticed it and again more pronounced at the World Cup. He's not looking for his team-mates straight away like Zidane would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Some under-rating of Zidane going on here like. Please YT Zidane vs Portugal Euro 2000 - this is how the best player in the world is supposed to lead his country. Helping his team mates raise their game. Messi better than Zidane at everything except elegance? Ludicrous. Messi could never be the #10 Zidane was. YT Zidane vs Brazil 2006 With English Commentary itv Coverage - look how he's controlling that game and tell me Messi can do it. All the Barca players - as much as I love them, they are "system players". I think Iniesta is the closest thing we have to Zidane but his game works brilliantly within the system the rest of the team is benefiting from - all on the same page. I do think Messi's the better player. Sometimes I think Iniesta is a better player. But Zidane's "greater". If I could pick 1 to lead my side into a WC final - i'd pick Zizou. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Zidane is probably my favourite player of all time. As Billy said, he was an absolute magician. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player. Agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player. Zidane is probably my favourite player of all time. As Billy said, he was an absolute magician. Despite always playing at his absolute best against us, I just loved and admired the guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Some under-rating of Zidane going on here like. Please YT Zidane vs Portugal Euro 2000 - this is how the best player in the world is supposed to lead his country. Helping his team mates raise their game. Messi better than Zidane at everything except elegance? Ludicrous. Messi could never be the #10 Zidane was. YT Zidane vs Brazil 2006 With English Commentary itv Coverage - look how he's controlling that game and tell me Messi can do it. All the Barca players - as much as I love them, they are "system players". I think Iniesta is the closest thing we have to Zidane but his game works brilliantly within the system the rest of the team is benefiting from - all on the same page. I do think Messi's the better player. Sometimes I think Iniesta is a better player. But Zidane's "greater". If I could pick 1 to lead my side into a WC final - i'd pick Zizou. You're ignoring again Zidane's poor moments and he had them. Also the Messi played with better players doesn't quite wash with me. Zidane played with Figo, Carlos, Raul, Ronaldo, Hierro etc etc the fact that team couldn't make the most of their talents is no ones fault but their own. And yes Zidane was a better 10 so what? So was Riquelme and arguably Ozil is a better 10 than Messi is its all irrelevant. I completely agree with Incognito, Zidane at his best was one of the best players ever there's no doubt about that. But his career as a whole was nowhere near as consistent as some of the players mentioned and consistency matters. If it didn't Ronaldinho would be in this discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Some under-rating of Zidane going on here like. Please YT Zidane vs Portugal Euro 2000 - this is how the best player in the world is supposed to lead his country. Helping his team mates raise their game. Messi better than Zidane at everything except elegance? Ludicrous. Messi could never be the #10 Zidane was. YT Zidane vs Brazil 2006 With English Commentary itv Coverage - look how he's controlling that game and tell me Messi can do it. All the Barca players - as much as I love them, they are "system players". I think Iniesta is the closest thing we have to Zidane but his game works brilliantly within the system the rest of the team is benefiting from - all on the same page. I do think Messi's the better player. Sometimes I think Iniesta is a better player. But Zidane's "greater". If I could pick 1 to lead my side into a WC final - i'd pick Zizou. You're ignoring again Zidane's poor moments and he had them. Also the Messi played with better players doesn't quite wash with me. Zidane played with Figo, Carlos, Raul, Ronaldo, Hierro etc etc the fact that team couldn't make the most of their talents is no ones fault but their own. And yes Zidane was a better 10 so what? So was Riquelme and arguably Ozil is a better 10 than Messi is its all irrelevant. I completely agree with Incognito, Zidane at his best was one of the best players ever there's no doubt about that. But his career as a whole was nowhere near as consistent as some of the players mentioned and consistency matters. If it didn't Ronaldinho would be in this discussion. TBF Ronaldinho has won everything as a player and is a big reason to why Barcelona is the team they have become, but you can't compare a two year peak to what Zidane had. Zidane was a great footballer for many many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 As I said before, at his very best, Zidane was just unbelievable. The man was a magician. Had he reached those levels like the ones he reached in Euro 2000 more consistently, then I believe he would be mentioned more favourably. He was the epitome of a big game player. I agree, but he was no Lionel Messi at his best, not by a long chalk. Not even Ronaldo at his best was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I'm not denying that flip, just the overall theme that consistency matters for club and country. If only players at their best in big games mattered, he would be in this discussion. (Ronaldinho) Fact is though he isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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