Tiresias Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2011/09/21/fact-borrowing-100-at-wongas-apr-costs-more-than-the-us-national-debt-over-14-trillion-after-7-years/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuneaton Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money you try telling that to slim mike and have him look at you like your some kind of space monkey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Coffee shops are another good one btw. FIVE QUID for some warm water with a sprinkle of flavouring. Even more if you're in a train station or airport. Now that's fucking immoral. I dunno like, there seems to be an unbridgeable gap between discretionary spending - no matter how many people tell you they NEED their coffee - and a financial instrument transaction designed around necessity. I mean, you can draw some kind of equivalence between them - and with a little more effort, anything - by comparing only their most rudimentary forms "payday loans are a thing, coffee is a thing, and in the end a person is out some amount of money." but you have to ask if that's a useful equivalence or simply too broad to be meaningful? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. Rightly or wrongly, I instinctively blame many of present society's ills on the claim culture that I think spread over from the States and the 'no win no fee' litigation around the turn of the millenium. People don't seem to want to take responsibility for anything any more; there's always someone to blame or a so-called easy way out of your problems, and it's the only way. I might be barking up the wrong tree with this completely, but I genuinely don't think it was a good thing. Spot on. Too many refuse to accept their own actions lead to their problems, they then blame everything or anyone else they can. I'm afraid its now endemic in our society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money Noone batted an eyelid when it was Northern Rock. A company that offered 125% mortgages to customers that were allowed to self-certify their incomes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money you try telling that to slim mike and have him look at you like your some kind of space monkey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money Noone batted an eyelid when it was Northern Rock. A company that offered 125% mortgages to customers that were allowed to self-certify their incomes. Yeah but on a sliding scale we're....err...Off the scale. NR were doing much the same as other deregulated banks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. Rightly or wrongly, I instinctively blame many of present society's ills on the claim culture that I think spread over from the States and the 'no win no fee' litigation around the turn of the millenium. People don't seem to want to take responsibility for anything any more; there's always someone to blame or a so-called easy way out of your problems, and it's the only way. I might be barking up the wrong tree with this completely, but I genuinely don't think it was a good thing. Absolutely. Take, for example PPI claims. Customers can contact banks directly and reclaim their money. Yet the likes of WeFightAnyClaim and Brunell Franklin still make it look like they're needed and then take their cut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money Noone batted an eyelid when it was Northern Rock. A company that offered 125% mortgages to customers that were allowed to self-certify their incomes. Aye, it's unlikely that Wonga's greed will ever result in a credit crunch which will change the world we live in. Used to like the Blue Star best meself like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So just cos it's legal people are ok with it? It's an ugly business, it shouldn't just be about whoever offers us the most money Noone batted an eyelid when it was Northern Rock. A company that offered 125% mortgages to customers that were allowed to self-certify their incomes. Yeah but on a sliding scale we're....err...Off the scale. NR were doing much the same as other deregulated banks. I know and Wonga are doing the same as other cash til pay day companies, and pawn shops to an extent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. season-ticket holder, said he wouldn't set foot in SJP again. Dug out an email and asked him if he'd sell me his ST for £50 then. No reply yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. season-ticket holder, said he wouldn't set foot in SJP again. Dug out an email and asked him if he'd sell me his ST for £50 then. No reply yet... Blimpy's point is absolutely right like. They're all full of shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. Rightly or wrongly, I instinctively blame many of present society's ills on the claim culture that I think spread over from the States and the 'no win no fee' litigation around the turn of the millenium. People don't seem to want to take responsibility for anything any more; there's always someone to blame or a so-called easy way out of your problems, and it's the only way. I might be barking up the wrong tree with this completely, but I genuinely don't think it was a good thing. Absolutely. Take, for example PPI claims. Customers can contact banks directly and reclaim their money. Yet the likes of WeFightAnyClaim and Brunell Franklin still make it look like they're needed and then take their cut. They are an example of legitimate companies where I do believe they are potentially misleading people in their adverts btw. The ASA should be enforcing some blurb at the end notifying people that they don't have to use them to claim their money back. But of course it's easier to use these companies so they'd probably do that anyway. There's one company that comes around building sites called Rift, they offer to claim back tax owed on travelling expenses. They take a 28% cut of the amount they claim back for workers. 28%! I tried my best to tell the lads on my site that they could probably do this themselves for free, and they should at least ring HMRC and ask about it. They just used Rift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. season-ticket holder, said he wouldn't set foot in SJP again. Dug out an email and asked him if he'd sell me his ST for £50 then. No reply yet... Hopefully he'll say aye, and you can get a nice Wonga loan to pay it off at 2914%APR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. season-ticket holder, said he wouldn't set foot in SJP again. Dug out an email and asked him if he'd sell me his ST for £50 then. No reply yet... Blimpy's point is absolutely right like. They're all full of s***. Oh I agree 100%. He'll be there against WBA no doubt, having not tried to take the issue up with the rest of his party in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. season-ticket holder, said he wouldn't set foot in SJP again. Dug out an email and asked him if he'd sell me his ST for £50 then. No reply yet... Aye, rather than telling NUFC how to run it's business he might be better off trying to work for his constituents. Sadly his limited intellect means he's doing very little to help them on the national or international stage, so maybe the cheap publicity shots are his best hope of keeping a job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. Rightly or wrongly, I instinctively blame many of present society's ills on the claim culture that I think spread over from the States and the 'no win no fee' litigation around the turn of the millenium. People don't seem to want to take responsibility for anything any more; there's always someone to blame or a so-called easy way out of your problems, and it's the only way. I might be barking up the wrong tree with this completely, but I genuinely don't think it was a good thing. Absolutely. Take, for example PPI claims. Customers can contact banks directly and reclaim their money. Yet the likes of WeFightAnyClaim and Brunell Franklin still make it look like they're needed and then take their cut. They are an example of legitimate companies where I do believe they are potentially misleading people in their adverts btw. The ASA should be enforcing some blurb at the end notifying people that they don't have to use them to claim their money back. But of course it's easier to use these companies so they'd probably do that anyway. There's one company that comes around building sites called Rift, they offer to claim back tax owed on travelling expenses. They take a 28% cut of the amount they claim back for workers. I tried my best to tell the lads on my site that they could probably do this themselves for free, and they should at least ring HMRC and ask about it. They just used Rift. You ready for this one? My mam used a company to reclaim her PPI back. I told her she didn't need to use them and that she'd get the whole lot if she did it, or she let me do it. She wanted the company to still do it. I work for a bank. She also has a 3D TV but doesn't even have HD! In summary, advertising works because people are lazy and are impressed by pinstripes, or in my mam's case, stubborn and gullible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Still don't quite get how advertising their perfectly legal business is preying on the vulnerable. I'd be interested in seeing some stats on where the majority of the money they lend goes but I would imagine that's not freely available. Their service, the amounts they lend and the high charges they levy literally couldn't be any easier to understand; what are they concealing or misleading people with? If the adverts are inappropriate then the ASA should be doing something about it btw. Otherwise, people clearly believe the charges are acceptable or they wouldn't be agreeing to them. Or are we saying that people are so f***ing dense that they need protecting from their own thought processes and decisions? Wonga and the like are obviously charging as much as people are willing to pay. Ultimately what's the difference between doing what they're doing and Apple charging £529 for a phone that costs them £129 to make? Or Nike charging £100 for a pair of trainers that costs them £5 to make? Where do we draw the line between a business making a fair profit and being immoral? I think the issue with these payday loan companies is that they're unreasonable when it comes to those who, either due to stupidity or bad luck, are unable to pay back the amount within the agreed time. So whilst it's reasonable to charge £250 for borrowing £200 for a week, is it really fair to be charging e.g. £600 if the person can't make the repayment until a month after the deadline? It's not like Wonga would turn £200 into £600 by putting the money into a bank. It's undoubtedly extortion. E.g: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3279644 To put it in context, if high street banks, mortgage lenders, credit card companies, etc, did this when e.g. going over agreed limits or being unable to make payments due to unforseen circumstances, all hell would break lose, even though the exact same arguements of "it's your fault for not being more responsible" could be used. Instead, the majority of us benefit from a degree of protection provided by various regulatory bodies/the government/good practice/etc when it comes to these areas (mortgage holidays, lenders being required to provide assistance where possible, capped overdraft or late payment fees, etc etc). I don't think Wonga are an evil company, or that they should be banned. Just that there needs to be a bit more regulation to protect people who do fall foul of these lenders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 You'd be hard pressed to find a company that's not shady... I'm just happy we don't have to hear our illustrious stadium called Sports Direct 25% Off Boots Til Wednesday Dot Com Arena any more. Hopefully this means the end of that massive sign on the roof that you can see from space also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gotta laugh at how the mackems have tried to take the moral high ground over the shirt sponser when they have the equally dodgy 'Invest in Africa'... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Notice a "Newcastle supporting" local MP jumped on the bandwagon yesterday with a cheap rent-a-quote-buy-a-vote interview. Maybe if he'd been a little more vociferous when Gordon Brown, Ed Balls and Co. were kissing the bankers arses, mortgaging the UK to eternity, ruining the NHS with their PFI's and introducing back door legislation that has made the UK the money laundering capital of the world, then there'd be a lot fewer desperate people needing pay day loans. Rightly or wrongly, I instinctively blame many of present society's ills on the claim culture that I think spread over from the States and the 'no win no fee' litigation around the turn of the millenium. People don't seem to want to take responsibility for anything any more; there's always someone to blame or a so-called easy way out of your problems, and it's the only way. I might be barking up the wrong tree with this completely, but I genuinely don't think it was a good thing. Absolutely. Take, for example PPI claims. Customers can contact banks directly and reclaim their money. Yet the likes of WeFightAnyClaim and Brunell Franklin still make it look like they're needed and then take their cut. They are an example of legitimate companies where I do believe they are potentially misleading people in their adverts btw. The ASA should be enforcing some blurb at the end notifying people that they don't have to use them to claim their money back. But of course it's easier to use these companies so they'd probably do that anyway. There's one company that comes around building sites called Rift, they offer to claim back tax owed on travelling expenses. They take a 28% cut of the amount they claim back for workers. I tried my best to tell the lads on my site that they could probably do this themselves for free, and they should at least ring HMRC and ask about it. They just used Rift. You ready for this one? My mam used a company to reclaim her PPI back. I told her she didn't need to use them and that she'd get the whole lot if she did it, or she let me do it. She wanted the company to still do it. I work for a bank. She also has a 3D TV but doesn't even have HD! In summary, advertising works because people are lazy and are impressed by pinstripes, or in my mam's case, stubborn and gullible. My dad did exactly the same. Told him he'd shouldn't have done it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Still don't quite get how advertising their perfectly legal business is preying on the vulnerable. I'd be interested in seeing some stats on where the majority of the money they lend goes but I would imagine that's not freely available. Their service, the amounts they lend and the high charges they levy literally couldn't be any easier to understand; what are they concealing or misleading people with? If the adverts are inappropriate then the ASA should be doing something about it btw. Otherwise, people clearly believe the charges are acceptable or they wouldn't be agreeing to them. Or are we saying that people are so f***ing dense that they need protecting from their own thought processes and decisions? Wonga and the like are obviously charging as much as people are willing to pay. Ultimately what's the difference between doing what they're doing and Apple charging £529 for a phone that costs them £129 to make? Or Nike charging £100 for a pair of trainers that costs them £5 to make? Where do we draw the line between a business making a fair profit and being immoral? I think the issue with these payday loan companies is that they're unreasonable when it comes to those who, either due to stupidity or bad luck, are unable to pay back the amount within the agreed time. So whilst it's reasonable to charge £250 for borrowing £200 for a week, is it really fair to be charging e.g. £600 if the person can't make the repayment until a month after the deadline? It's not like Wonga would turn £200 into £600 by putting the money into a bank. It's undoubtedly extortion. E.g: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3279644 To put it in context, if high street banks, mortgage lenders, credit card companies, etc, did this when e.g. going over agreed limits or being unable to make payments due to unforseen circumstances, all hell would break lose, even though the exact same arguements of "it's your fault for not being more responsible" could be used. Instead, the majority of us benefit from a degree of protection provided by various regulatory bodies/the government/good practice/etc when it comes to these areas (mortgage holidays, lenders being required to provide assistance where possible, capped overdraft or late payment fees, etc etc). I don't think Wonga are an evil company, or that they should be banned. Just that there needs to be a bit more regulation to protect people who do fall foul of these lenders. Fair comments. I suppose the payday companies would say that all of the extortionate fees are the price of getting a quick no-questions-asked loan in the first place. Which again, people clearly want. And obviously it's the way they try to enforce getting the money back on time. Following on from my earlier comment, it'd be really interesting to see how much of their operating profit is made up of charges from people failing to pay the initial loan back on time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Gotta laugh at how the mackems have tried to take the moral high ground over the shirt sponser when they have the equally dodgy 'Invest in Africa'... The Wonga storm in a tea cup isn't even in the same league as that squalid arrangement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Agreed about the stuff about responsibility regarding this, something brought in from the USA and under the last labour government sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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