Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah, we can't do a Napoli then. No debts and 42% wages is fucking amazing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 If we were in Napoli's position with our current transfer window's failures I'd be stood outside SJP firing flaming arrows of doom at the boardroom windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah but they are also actually trying to do stuff, you know like appoint good managers and sign top quality players. Spend money to make money. Where as ours is to spend as little as possible and milk the benefits of the collective TV deal while achieving the square root of fuck all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. Upgrading our shocking manager would be a better place to start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? I don't expect Ashley to plough his own money in out of obligation, and failing that we need to pay our way. I don't disagree with getting good deals on transfers. I can't really be bothered explaining my entire position yet again because you feel like having a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yeah but they are also actually trying to do stuff, you know like appoint good managers and sign top quality players. Because they have the financial stability to do so. Just try their approach with a huge loan outstanding plus 60-70% (whatever it is now) wages... They'd be treading a very fine line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. Upgrading our shocking manager would be a better place to start. Sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 On the whole who is to blame issue, I'm of the opinion that it's more the quality of the squad than the manager. So, I'm happy to keep Pardew providing the squad is improved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? I don't expect Ashley to plough his own money in out of obligation, and failing that we need to pay our way. I don't disagree with getting good deals on transfers. I can't really be bothered explaining my entire position yet again because you feel like having a go. Pay our way?! We're due to post a massive profit next time round, you do realise this? Have you been living in a cave whilst other clubs have been dancing round the money fountain that is the new television deal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They get 50,000 gates and have a similar fanbase to us. That's the point I'm making, them (and also the likes of Dortmund and Schalke in Germany) are fulfilling their potential as clubs. We just blissfully accept being worse off than Norwich City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? We're two or three players and a new manager away from being able to mount a serious challenge, yes of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? I don't expect Ashley to plough his own money in out of obligation, and failing that we need to pay our way. I don't disagree with getting good deals on transfers. I can't really be bothered explaining my entire position yet again because you feel like having a go. Pay our way?! We're due to post a massive profit next time round, you do realise this? Have you been living in a cave whilst other clubs have been dancing round the money fountain that is the new television deal? Well if we make a massive profit we should invest it into the club, I've never argued otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They get 50,000 gates and have a similar fanbase to us. That's the point I'm making, them (and also the likes of Dortmund and Schalke in Germany) are fulfilling their potential as clubs. We just blissfully accept being worse off than Norwich City. Because we are worse off than Norwich in the short-term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 On the whole who is to blame issue, I'm of the opinion that it's more the quality of the squad than the manager. So, I'm happy to keep Pardew providing the squad is improved. Keep telling yourself you're only smoking it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? We're two or three players and a new manager away from being able to mount a serious challenge, yes of course. Oh right, sorry. So despite our evil penny pinching and general badness, we've assembled a squad that's nearly good enough to challenge for the CL, while at the same time becoming profitable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? I don't expect Ashley to plough his own money in out of obligation, and failing that we need to pay our way. I don't disagree with getting good deals on transfers. I can't really be bothered explaining my entire position yet again because you feel like having a go. Pay our way?! We're due to post a massive profit next time round, you do realise this? Have you been living in a cave whilst other clubs have been dancing round the money fountain that is the new television deal? Well if we make a massive profit we should invest it into the club, I've never argued otherwise. That's exactly what you've been arguing ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? We're two or three players and a new manager away from being able to mount a serious challenge, yes of course. Oh right, sorry. So despite our evil penny pinching and general badness, we've assembled a squad that's nearly good enough to challenge for the CL, while at the same time becoming profitable? The current squad is clearly not good enough because certain areas (like wide forward, which should be our main attacking threat) are embarrassingly poor. That was my point in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Any debts? Wages as % of turnover? In fact, they now have no bank debts at all, after eliminating the €32 million balance in 2005, and actually have cash balances of €14 million the important wages to turnover ratio is still only 42%, which is astonishingly low for a major football club and way below UEFA’s recommended maximum limit of 70%. Doesn't that mean they're a good example of financial stability? Isn't that what you always try to claim we are? I don't expect Ashley to plough his own money in out of obligation, and failing that we need to pay our way. I don't disagree with getting good deals on transfers. I can't really be bothered explaining my entire position yet again because you feel like having a go. Pay our way?! We're due to post a massive profit next time round, you do realise this? Have you been living in a cave whilst other clubs have been dancing round the money fountain that is the new television deal? Well if we make a massive profit we should invest it into the club, I've never argued otherwise. That's exactly what you've been arguing ffs. It so isn't. You've totally misunderstood my position if you think that. Maybe deliberately, I'm not sure. If we make profits we should invest them, obviously. Where else would I want them to go? I don't mind paying down our debt, including debt to Ashley, because that's good for the future. But obviously the proportion used for that should be sensible and not too large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? We're two or three players and a new manager away from being able to mount a serious challenge, yes of course. Oh right, sorry. So despite our evil penny pinching and general badness, we've assembled a squad that's nearly good enough to challenge for the CL, while at the same time becoming profitable? The current squad is clearly not good enough because certain areas (like wide forward, which should be our main attaching threat) are embarrassingly poor. That was my point in the first place? But it's almost good enough? Which doesn't seem to bad to me considering the length of time since we were anywhere near. Anyway, this line of debate is kind of pointless. I never argued anything about the quality of the squad, I was just saying I personally think Gouffran is a decent player. I agree we need wide players and forwards, you're kind of forcing me to make decisions that don't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 On the whole who is to blame issue, I'm of the opinion that it's more the quality of the squad than the manager. So, I'm happy to keep Pardew providing the squad is improved. Keep telling yourself you're only smoking it! There was a Fink Tank article a while back that looked at the impact of replacing "under performing" managers which found that there was a honeymoon period for the "upgrade" before results reverted to how they were previously. Ergo, squad quality is far more significant than the manager. Obviously there will be some miracle worker managers out there, but what is the likelihood that we get that lucky? How many clubs get that lucky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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