AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 On the whole who is to blame issue, I'm of the opinion that it's more the quality of the squad than the manager. So, I'm happy to keep Pardew providing the squad is improved. Keep telling yourself you're only smoking it! There was a Fink Tank article a while back that looked at the impact of replacing "under performing" managers which found that there was a honeymoon period for the "upgrade" before results reverted to how they were previously. Ergo, squad quality is far more significant than the manager. Obviously there will be some miracle worker managers out there, but what is the likelihood that we get that lucky. How many clubs get that lucky? Players are in general much more important than managers, the managers job is basically not to do too much damage. Last season Pardew did a bit, but I wouldn't say he always will. In the right circumstances he can sustain a positive environment and a good run, as we saw the season before. If I thought we would bring in someone of genuine quality then obviously I would want him replaced, but I don't think Ashley is very likely to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 As I said, pointless. I made a point about how good I thought Gouffran was and you put a load of words into my mouth. Is he good enough as a wide player to potentially get us into the Champions League? If your answer is no, then I'm right. If your answer is yes, then you should lay off the smack. The question doesn't really make sense, because we'd have to upgrade absolutely loads of players to get in the CL. How's that like when we missed out by several points two seasons ago, and have supposedly strengthened significantly? Because we still need to strengthen more? I don't really understand your point of view, are you saying we are close to the CL? We're two or three players and a new manager away from being able to mount a serious challenge, yes of course. Oh right, sorry. So despite our evil penny pinching and general badness, we've assembled a squad that's nearly good enough to challenge for the CL, while at the same time becoming profitable? The current squad is clearly not good enough because certain areas (like wide forward, which should be our main attaching threat) are embarrassingly poor. That was my point in the first place? But it's almost good enough? Which doesn't seem to bad to me considering the length of time since we were anywhere near. Anyway, this line of debate is kind of pointless. I never argued anything about the quality of the squad, I was just saying I personally think Gouffran is a decent player. I agree we need wide players and forwards, you're kind of forcing me to make decisions that don't exist. "The length of time that we were anywhere near" What, one season? We had the opportunity to strengthen and try and qualify last summer, but we preferred to penny pinch. What is this "sensible" investment you advocate? And why are you so desperate not for us to spend money we "don't have" when none of the country's successful clubs are run that way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Sorry I've got to stop now, the questions are too broad to answer in a couple of lines. It's late. If we could get success based on sustainable borrowing then I wouldn't complain about it. But I also don't object to sensible spending. You might think its impossible for a football club to put its future at risk, if that's the case then I'm totally wrong, we should just go mad and hang the consequences. As I said, tired now, night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Ian is such a fucking trooper. Regardless of what you think of his opinion, the bloke clearly has the patience of a saint. Lesser posters would have given up by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-more Mag Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 18 days to Man City Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 They get 50,000 gates and have a similar fanbase to us. That's the point I'm making, them (and also the likes of Dortmund and Schalke in Germany) are fulfilling their potential as clubs. We just blissfully accept being worse off than Norwich City. Sewelly spot on with the posts in the last page or so - same stuff I've been trying to say since the summer. We made a similar "splash", although on a smaller cash scale, in the summer & winter we signed Ba, Cabaye, and Cisse. However, this is where our small-time mentality owner failed because he continued to use his small-time mentality to not kick-on in terms of manager, further player investment, and bettering our sponsorship. Had we an owner who'd have the foresight to spend money wisely to ensure higher league places and push towards the bracket of challenging for CL - which are all increasing exposure on top of real head-turning momentum (arguably the best momentum in ages with that 5th placed finish) that would have yielded better signings, potential management move, etc. Thats showing ambition, like he's mentioned with Napoli, Dortmund, and Schalke. For a man who's so well regarded for his shrewd business dealings - he's somehow only been successful in brainwashing people to be proud of a club that lives within-its-means when we are carrying on like we are broke and barely making ends meet. We're a ripe club with a brilliant fan base and massive stadium which are excellent foundations for any club - but we've a rich owner with 0 ambition and 0 clue how to run a football club. It's a shame, waste, and a joke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 And that post is coming to you direct from Imagination Land, where all your dreams come true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 And that post is coming to you direct from Imagination Land, where all your dreams come true. http://www.reactiongifs.com//wp-content/gallery/no/kanye-smh-no.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's easy to string together a couple of paragraphs of fantasy lined talk about how much better things would be if things were better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's easy to string together a couple of paragraphs of fantasy lined talk about how much better things would be if things were better. We may as well shut NO down.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's easy to string together a couple of paragraphs of fantasy lined talk about how much better things would be if things were better. It's even easier to string together one line of irrelevant nonsense that contributes nothing to the discussion about our incompetent owner. Bravo sir. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. Typical Ian W response to anything that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. Typical Ian W response to anything that. Aye, he does tend to post sensible, level headed comments. Well pointed out, neesy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 1st catch of the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's easy to string together a couple of paragraphs of fantasy lined talk about how much better things would be if things were better. It's even easier to string together one line of irrelevant nonsense that contributes nothing to the discussion about our incompetent owner. Bravo sir. I've pointed out that the post is based on absolutely nothing other than fantasy and wishful thinking. Your move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Yeah but they are also actually trying to do stuff, you know like appoint good managers and sign top quality players. Spend money to make money. Where as ours is to spend as little as possible and milk the benefits of the collective TV deal while achieving the square root of f*** all. This Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. Typical Ian W response to anything that. I think Ian is right, too many people going mental. We need a forward but we aren't fucked, if we get a striker in the squad is stronger than the one that finished5th Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. Typical Ian W response to anything that. I think Ian is right, too many people going mental. We need a forward but we aren't fucked, if we get a striker in the squad is stronger than the one that finished5th That's assuming all the players are playing at the same level as that season, which most are not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 1st catch of the day. Fucking hell. It's been a ruse, all along! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind paying down our debt, including debt to Ashley, because that's good for the future. I can't fathom how it is good for the future. That implies that because some of the loan to Ashley is repaid today, it need not be repaid in the future. But that's an illusion. If the club can convince enough of the fanbase that this 'debt' is somehow the duty of the club (and with it the goodwill of the supporters) to repay Ashley as an individual then it will be a great sleight of hand. If 'the club' - the players and staff and buildings and everything that makes the business run is worth £100m, and Ashley is owed £150m, then Ashley's shares are worth -£50m. £150m+(-£50m)=£100m, that would be the total cash Ashley would bank from a sale at fair price today. However if the 'loan' is repaid over time by controlling cash spend and getting the pickup on TV money, then the loan could be paid down to say £50m. The club can still be valued at £100m, so the equity is worth £50m. £50m+£50m=£100m, the same as before. The crucial difference being that £100m has been taken out already- meaning that Ashley recoups a total of £200m rather than the £100m he might get today. That is why we should not conisder this loan as 'debt' nor should we consider it a duty or a good thing should the club opt to repay this rather than use funds on the football side. Instead we should consider the loan as equity and the debt repayments as dividends- as the impact on the ability of the club to perform on the pitch (which is what we really care about) is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. Typical Ian W response to anything that. Do you even know what I was responding to? I like you neesy, but I don't understand why you lower yourself to this kind of shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 We're not completely fucked at all man, that's a massive exaggeration. You can't say that we haven't played a competitive match yet Typical Ian W response to anything that. I think Ian is right, too many people going mental. We need a forward but we aren't fucked, if we get a striker in the squad is stronger than the one that finished5th That's assuming all the players are playing at the same level as that season, which most are not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I don't mind paying down our debt, including debt to Ashley, because that's good for the future. I can't fathom how it is good for the future. That implies that because some of the loan to Ashley is repaid today, it need not be repaid in the future. But that's an illusion. If the club can convince enough of the fanbase that this 'debt' is somehow the duty of the club (and with it the goodwill of the supporters) to repay Ashley as an individual then it will be a great sleight of hand. If 'the club' - the players and staff and buildings and everything that makes the business run is worth £100m, and Ashley is owed £150m, then Ashley's shares are worth -£50m. £150m+(-£50m)=£100m, that would be the total cash Ashley would bank from a sale at fair price today. However if the 'loan' is repaid over time by controlling cash spend and getting the pickup on TV money, then the loan could be paid down to say £50m. The club can still be valued at £100m, so the equity is worth £50m. £50m+£50m=£100m, the same as before. The crucial difference being that £100m has been taken out already- meaning that Ashley recoups a total of £200m rather than the £100m he might get today. That is why we should not conisder this loan as 'debt' nor should we consider it a duty or a good thing should the club opt to repay this rather than use funds on the football side. Instead we should consider the loan as equity and the debt repayments as dividends- as the impact on the ability of the club to perform on the pitch (which is what we really care about) is the same. Hallefuckingluja! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 More convinced than ever that if we don't have a decent start to the season and gain some early momentum things could go to shit very quickly indeed. The similarities to 2008/09 are frightening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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