AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, what happened last year? A fluke? Looks like it. He got West Ham to the FA Cup final then got sacked 6 months later. He won the FL Trophy at Southampton then got sacked 5 months later. Interesting. So he's just incredibly adept at being flukey, but only during his first season in charge? And a great season is a fluke, but a poor couple of months is normal? Strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 and the bastard didn't even fluke us to a trophy, just a piddly 5th place finish pfffttt get rid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, what happened last year? A fluke? Looks like it. He got West Ham to the FA Cup final then got sacked 6 months later. He won the FL Trophy at Southampton then got sacked 5 months later. Interesting. So he's just incredibly adept at being flukey, but only during his first season in charge? It just wouldn't be the first time an extreme high is followed by a extreme low Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's no good citing last year as evidence for the defence when the same people that said for large parts of last year that there were serious issues with the style of play and the approach to games are the same ones talking about the same problems. It's not about flukes, I simply don't think that last season was as fantastic as some people like to paint it as and I said as much fairly often. Some people are acting as if it's fickle but look back over old posts and you'll see that it's the same old problems coming back to haunt us. The only time I was truly confident in the team last season was during the run of six wins, playing a system that was then completely abandoned. How can something like that be defended? It's definitely a straw man to say that people are baying for his blood too, but he seriously needs to up his game. Is that unfair? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 He needs to up his game, or the players do, or a combination of the two. That's definitely fair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's no good citing last year as evidence for the defence when the same people that said for large parts of last year that there were serious issues with the style of play and the approach to games are the same ones talking about the same problems. It's not about flukes, I simply don't think that last season was as fantastic as some people like to paint it as and I said as much fairly often. Some people are acting as if it's fickle but look back over old posts and you'll see that it's the same old problems coming back to haunt us. The only time I was truly confident in the team last season was during the run of six wins, playing a system that was then completely abandoned. How can something like that be defended? It's definitely a straw man to say that people are baying for his blood too, but he seriously needs to up his game. Is that unfair? It's perfectly fair since our quality of play is making us look like the second-worst team in the league, but I don't think he gets to shoulder all the blame. We're basically playing the same (mostly uninspired) tactics as last year, but the difference is that individuals aren't preforming. Pardew in my opinion has always been a mediocre tactician but an effective motivator and man manager. The question we should be asking is why the latter part isn't working anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's no good citing last year as evidence for the defence when the same people that said for large parts of last year that there were serious issues with the style of play and the approach to games are the same ones talking about the same problems. It's not about flukes, I simply don't think that last season was as fantastic as some people like to paint it as and I said as much fairly often. Some people are acting as if it's fickle but look back over old posts and you'll see that it's the same old problems coming back to haunt us. The only time I was truly confident in the team last season was during the run of six wins, playing a system that was then completely abandoned. How can something like that be defended? It's definitely a straw man to say that people are baying for his blood too, but he seriously needs to up his game. Is that unfair? We're going through our first major rough patch of his tenure. Yes, there are worrying aspects of our game that need improving. However, like you said, these issues were present at most times last year. We still finished 5th. This season has been stop/start due to injuries and suspensions to key players, forcing Pardew to play, what he obviously considers to be, players that require protection (Simpson, Williamson). Yes, these players should have been replaced during the summer, but I doubt anyone truly believes Pardew has much of a say in that. This has meant that our gameplan has been altered to attempt to stifle opposition and attempt to nick wins. This worked quite well at the start of last season. He's a defensive minded manager, and appears reluctant to attack games when he does not have his full strength team. For me, last season has bought him a lot of credit. I'm willing to stick with him until we can begin to field our 'proper' eleven, then I'll expect to see a vast improvement in style of play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, what happened last year? A fluke? Looks like it. He got West Ham to the FA Cup final then got sacked 6 months later. He won the FL Trophy at Southampton then got sacked 5 months later. Interesting. So he's just incredibly adept at being flukey, but only during his first season in charge? It just wouldn't be the first time an extreme high is followed by a extreme low Pretty sure Southampton were doing alright when he was sacked, weren't they? Wasn't he sacked for non-football related reasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 You say it's the same tactics but it's not the same as the only time last season that we looked capable of controlling a game or winning by more than a goal. Serious questions need to be asked as to why that is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 It's no good citing last year as evidence for the defence when the same people that said for large parts of last year that there were serious issues with the style of play and the approach to games are the same ones talking about the same problems. It's not about flukes, I simply don't think that last season was as fantastic as some people like to paint it as and I said as much fairly often. Some people are acting as if it's fickle but look back over old posts and you'll see that it's the same old problems coming back to haunt us. The only time I was truly confident in the team last season was during the run of six wins, playing a system that was then completely abandoned. How can something like that be defended? It's definitely a straw man to say that people are baying for his blood too, but he seriously needs to up his game. Is that unfair? nah the only time i was truely convinced of Pardew was when he first took over from CH, when he first took over we went from somewhat direct play of CH to some great mixture of passing and attacking game with some directness thrown in. It was a period in this latter half of the season when i thought wow, this guy knows what he's doing , but sadly that turned out to be a honeymoon period, the following next season, yes we finished 5th but our football style has deteriated into route one defend deep and hit on the break with long balls, didn't complain too much as it got results. I wasn't even that convinced with that handful of games when we played well towards the end of last season, it was pretty much open season against teams that didnt have anything to play for but we did by trying to get that 4th spot. there were big warning signs, getting smashed by teams like fulham and wigan during that season, showed when Pardew wanted to deploy an attacking line-up it just falls on its arse. Pardew has got no clue when it comes to tactic in regards to attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 You say it's the same tactics but it's not the same as the only time last season that we looked capable of controlling a game or winning by more than a goal. Serious questions need to be asked as to why that is. Not sure I understand this, mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew. None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Its not just us under performing, other teams have figured us out a bit too. Man Utd playing a narrow diamond was just one example. That and hoy it football may keep you up, but you go anywhere near the top with it. Last year we did but in no way was that just hoy it football, we mixed it up better. This season has been just smash it forward. Revolting, horrible to watch and not football imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 "We're going through our first major rough patch of his tenure." Result-wise that's true. Performance-wise, this is the more or less the norm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 So, what happened last year? A fluke? Looks like it. He got West Ham to the FA Cup final then got sacked 6 months later. He won the FL Trophy at Southampton then got sacked 5 months later. Interesting. So he's just incredibly adept at being flukey, but only during his first season in charge? It just wouldn't be the first time an extreme high is followed by a extreme low Pretty sure Southampton were doing alright when he was sacked, weren't they? Wasn't he sacked for non-football related reasons? Not sure, but I've often heard qotes about Adkins taking the team from near the bottom of league 1 to the Prem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 "We're going through our first major rough patch of his tenure." Result-wise that's true. Performance-wise, this is the more or less the norm. Don't agree with that, at all. This season, with a couple of exceptions, perhaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew. None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out. im convinced the only way we can finish this season in any decent position, is if we go straight back to turgid football, back to the defend deep, start cautious and catch teams on the break with direct play. not saying its the best way. But it's the only way Pardew knows how to do it. He has shown that his great strength is organizing a team to defend and he does it well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 We haven't really changed our game plan but there's no way we were consistently this poor last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Its not just us under performing, other teams have figured us out a bit too. Man Utd playing a narrow diamond was just one example. That and hoy it football may keep you up, but you go anywhere near the top with it. Last year we did but in no way was that just hoy it football, we mixed it up better. This season has been just smash it forward. Revolting, horrible to watch and not football imo. my biggest concern now is not that the opposition has found Pardew out, im just really really worried that its our own players now that have found him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew. None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out. im convinced the only way we can finish this season in any decent position, is if we go straight back to turgid football, back to the defend deep, start cautious and catch teams on the break with direct play. not saying its the best way. But it's the only way Pardew knows how to do it. He has shown that his great strength is organizing a team to defend and he does it well. Are we not already playing this way? Turgid football - Check, defend deep - check, start cautious - check. It ain't working Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 "We're going through our first major rough patch of his tenure." Result-wise that's true. Performance-wise, this is the more or less the norm. I'm not saying it was fantastic but performance wise we was never this bad last season, except the Christmas and New Year period when we had a shit load of injuries and suspensions to deal with as well as AFCON. We might have been direct but it was never this shit to be considered the "norm". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 2011/12 Blackburn (h) 3-1 - Comfy as. Stoke (a) 3-1 Very tough fixture, remarkable display. Bit nervy, but good comfort after we notched our third. Man Utd (h) 3-0 We obviously didn't control the game, but we executed a game plan and contained them with reasonable comfort. West Brom (a) 3-1 Weathered an early spell of pressure admirably, then HBADembaDemba destroyed them. Liverpool (h) 2-0 Not easy tbh, barely made this list, but does - just. Stoke (h) 3-0 Glorious 2012/13 Erm... That's my recollection (cobbled together very hurriedly!) of good performances from last season where I thought we looked fluent and comfy for more or less 90 minutes. Six out of 48-odd Premiership games suggests our rut is more or less the norm. I realise you may wish to include victories away to Swansea, maybe at home to Bolton etc - but not for me. Edit: Aston Villa (a) 1-1 too... still don't know how we only got a point from that. Well, I do actually, we had no attacking plan other than Raylor cutting in from the left and putting in the same ineffective ball Nonetheless, we bossed them and had them pinned in their half all game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Also at West Ham i may be wrong here but i'm pretty sure towards the end of his tenure that the owner was getting involved with first team affairs and undermining Pardew. None the less it's way to early to be taking about this, does he need to up his game? without a doubt he doesn't have a clue tactically at the moment but he's obviously earned some time to sort it out. im convinced the only way we can finish this season in any decent position, is if we go straight back to turgid football, back to the defend deep, start cautious and catch teams on the break with direct play. not saying its the best way. But it's the only way Pardew knows how to do it. He has shown that his great strength is organizing a team to defend and he does it well. Are we not already playing this way? Turgid football - Check, defend deep - check, start cautious - check. It ain't working its worked relatively ok this season , not as great and lucky as last season in regards to results, our biggest non results when we came unstuck vs teams we expected to do well against., westham, swansea, bruge etc. We actually change the usual Pardew game plan in regards to those games, we went into those game to pass and attack and fell flat on our asses, we did a comeback vs bruge after we switched back to route one football. Trust me its the only way Pardew can get any type of results from his team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Its not just us under performing, other teams have figured us out a bit too. Man Utd playing a narrow diamond was just one example. That and hoy it football may keep you up, but you go anywhere near the top with it. Last year we did but in no way was that just hoy it football, we mixed it up better. This season has been just smash it forward. Revolting, horrible to watch and not football imo. my biggest concern now is not that the opposition has found Pardew out, im just really really worried that its our own players now that have found him out. From what the players are still saying i think he's ok with them, but if we keep losing i dont think that'll stay the case. I know its a broken record now but using 4-4-2 and hoy it footy with the players we have is not good, but more importantly the teams we are playing have figured that out and are just countering it. That and as Wullie was saying, why stop using such a good tactic such as the 4-3-3 (worked for us anyhoo), when it quite plainly gets the best out of more players than 4-4-2 does. Baffling decision like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 2011/12 Blackburn (h) 3-1 - Comfy as. Stoke (a) 3-1 Very tough fixture, remarkable display. Bit nervy, but good comfort after we notched our third. Man Utd (h) 3-0 We obviously didn't control the game, but we executed a game plan and contained them with reasonable comfort. West Brom (a) 3-1 Weathered an early spell of pressure admirably, then HBADembaDemba destroyed them. Liverpool (h) 2-0 Not easy tbh, barely made this list, but does - just. Stoke (h) 3-0 Glorious 2012/13 Erm... That's my recollection (cobbled together very hurriedly!) of good performances from last season where I thought we looked fluent and comfy for more or less 90 minutes. Six out of 48-odd Premiership games suggests our rut is more or less the norm. I realise you may wish to include victories away to Swansea, maybe at home to Bolton etc - but not for me. you can at least rub out one from that list, the away win vs Stroke was a win but a shocking one, at the time i enjoyed it because any win vs Pulis the turd is a great one, but damn did we stink it up, we smashed them at their own game using their towels to dry the ball and launch with throwings and long balls all night long. Don't want to see too many of those games tbh. I know if a neutral was watching it, they wouldnt had got any jollies from that game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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