Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 You saying we were lumping long balls yesterday? Read the posts again man, I'm clearly addressing a specific point. If you weren't being ironic with your comment about long balls, then your comment doesn't make sense. I'm sure you'll forgive me for misinterpreting what you said, considering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 He gets massive credit for not losing the dressing room like, many managers would have found it difficult to recover from that but he took the pressure well and seemingly still had every player playing for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Good point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 You saying we were lumping long balls yesterday? Read the posts again man, I'm clearly addressing a specific point. If you weren't being ironic with your comment about long balls, then your comment doesn't make sense. I'm sure you'll forgive me for misinterpreting what you said, considering. I was being sarcastic, clearly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Why should Pardew be given credit for starting to play 4-2-3-1/4-3-3? I can give him credit for many other things, but that is certainly not one of them!! Am i happy about it? Yes. His stubborness with the 4-4-2 earlier in the season is the biggest reason for us playing poorly before and the players losing most of their confidence left in them, and the injuries were the icing on the cake later on. Aye. He destroyed the player's confidence through s**** football, which resulted in our poor results. The injuries weren't to blame, at all. I mean, it's not as if results have picked up since we've had better players in the team, is it? Yeeah you're right, his stubborness with the 4-4-2 had nothing to do with.... :lol: The injuries weren't to blame at all? Who said this? They very much did so, especially the last 1-2 months before the new year. But before that we didn't have THAT many injuries. I mean, it's not as if results have picked up since we've had better players in the team, is it? Did i say that results haven't got better? The new signings have given us more quality and most of all some new belief in the team on a whole. And im very fucking happy about it. I think Pardew is doing a good job right now, but no one can convince me otherwise that he couldn't/shouldn't have got more out of the players available to him earlier in the season. And i don't mean during our very very worst period when we had an silly amount of injuries. You seem to want/imply that people on here should give Pardew credit now and not just the players, surely people should be able to point out negatively on his 4-4-2 earlier in the season and not just blaming it on injuries and players being poor back then? Personally i think Pardew AND the team earns praise for the last few weeks, hopefully we'll get even better, i do think our team will outgrow Pardew as a manager in the near future though, where we'll reach a level when we'll need a new manager to take it to an even higher level, but i really do hope Pardew can reach those heights even if i find it hard to see right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 You saying we were lumping long balls yesterday? Read the posts again man, I'm clearly addressing a specific point. If you weren't being ironic with your comment about long balls, then your comment doesn't make sense. I'm sure you'll forgive me for misinterpreting what you said, considering. I was being sarcastic, clearly. Obviously not that clearly. Anyway, serves me right for biting. A lot of peoples patter in here has been lifting today and I lost patience, but with the wrong post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 You saying we were lumping long balls yesterday? Read the posts again man, I'm clearly addressing a specific point. If you weren't being ironic with your comment about long balls, then your comment doesn't make sense. I'm sure you'll forgive me for misinterpreting what you said, considering. I was being sarcastic, clearly. Obviously not that clearly. Anyway, serves me right for biting. A lot of peoples patter in here has been lifting today and I lost patience, but with the wrong post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 A lot of peoples patter in here has been lifting today and I lost patience, but with the wrong post. I know that feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've been critical of him this season. But there were mitigating circumstances. I get the feeling that the summer spending was light because the club thought some of the younger players would be able to step up and fill some gaps. They couldn't. As a result of that, Pardew had a very short squad to deal with the season and the Euro Cup. Injuries haven't helped, either. He responded to the lack of depth by trying to play longball and grind out some wins. While watching the game yesterday the announcer stated that Newcastle had lost 5 of the 8 Sunday games that followed Thursday Euro Cup games. That is a telling statistic. FWIW, had we signed players in the summer that are comparable to the players we signed in January I believe we'd be in much better shape that we are now. That was a club wide failure, IMO, and it was made worse by Pardew's decision to play very condervatively and negatively. Also, I didn't see Eliot lumping the ball up. I think he did a fantastic job of targeting long passes. He looked a real weapon offensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Even with the new faces we still look a scrappy side, there is just no real fluidity or cohesion to our play and we are still relying on a moment of individual brilliance or the individuals themselves far too much. Tactically we are a mess too. Pardew is simply not good enough to take this team to any real heights on a consistent basis. Last season was a complete fluke and what we have witnessed this season is the real Pardew effect in place. Negative, cautious, long ball crap resulting in a struggle. Our players are better than that, far better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Agree with most of that htt. But im willing to keep pardew for the benefit of stability and incremental progression(even if hindered by pardew 's' negative football) over this season and next. There are few fans who feel pardew is the perfect manager, or even the best we could have atm. However this wee bit of stability is fucking lovely. Let's keep it this way for a while longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Agree with most of that htt. But im willing to keep pardew for the benefit of stability and incremental progression(even if hindered by pardew 's' negative football) over this season and next. There are few fans who feel pardew is the perfect manager, or even the best we could have atm. However this wee bit of stability is f***ing lovely. Let's keep it this way for a while longer. I would ditch him once the season ends personally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I agree with most of HTT's post too however you cannot say last season was a complete fluke because he achieved last season exactly how you describe, by mainly relying on the individuals. That's his definite plan and it worked last season, you can't take that away from him. I also highly doubt he will have another season at the club when so many players hit that kind of form at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi_D Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 If the right sort of manager was available I'd be inclined to agree. Many on here would have sacked him at numerous points throughout the past two years tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dontooner Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 We have a team to be comfortably a top 10 side. Pardew sets us out negatively every game. If he can change that and try to be more brave, maybe the way the season has panned out has forced his hands to play more cautiously, but I still think we did that plenty last season. I hope when HBA is back that he will set his team to go and win games and attack from the off. It's not in his nature, but if he can learn from his mistakes which he is very slow at learning from then he can definitely bring success to our squad, but it hinges on him changing his footballing mentality. We didn't set out negatively yesterday. I think a few players were just taken aback by Southampton's desire in the first 10 mins. I don't for one second believe that Pardew set us out to be under pressure in the opening 10mins at all. I Agree that with the new players, Pardew will set us up more positively, however the problem was always about the tactics and routines that would bring stronger coherent to our possession and overall play. I think most agree that we can pass and retain possession much better with a style or routine/systems. That is the Problem with Pardew, he doesnt really have one in mind, its a no brainer that different Managers make a team play and perform differently. Top Managers brings a style to the team that allows consistency in performances and hence results. Those who think Pardew have us playing a good system/style and is a master stroke at tactics is having a laugh Clearly those are his weak points as a manager, however his man management skills and PR skills are top drawer. We would clearly benefit in the long run with consistent results if we could infuse some sort of a routine playing system that is dominating by nature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I still rate him. As he integrates Anita into the side we are playing better football. Hes an option for the back 4 to play it out to and we've launched it a lot less in the last 2 games as a result. I doubted Anita, but hes starting to prove me wrong. With the ball on the deck more Ba and Cisse are starting to show signs they can play together. There is still a long way to go here though, but credit to Pardew for not giving up on it. The intensity (and ability) of our midfield covered a multitude of deficiencies last year. Cabaye and Tiote consistently covered more ground than anyone on the pitch, and Jonas would run miles too. We would win 2nd balls, put sides under pressure and control the middle against all but the best teams. Consequently a team containing Obertan, Best, Simpson, Taylor went 11 unbeaten. We just haven't had that this season. But I think Tiote is starting to get back to what he was and Anita may be able to forge an effective partnership with him. He is showing too much loyalty to Jonas though, and it is costing us. Hopefully Marveaux can follow Anita into the side and complete an absolute turn around from their horror 1st half at Everton. Get Cabaye back and 1 or 2 players in January without losing anyone, and I'm hopeful we'll look very good for the cups and 2nd half of the season. Improved 2nd half performances make it clear the players are still playing for him, and I see plenty of signs of improvement and reasons to be positive. Really don't understand a lot of the criticism in this thread. The main reason I dislike Pardew is that its very hard to see any intelligent or logical thought behind his tactics, beyond personal preference. Even when we were going direct with Hughton, we had a game plan, i.e. getting Barton to hit long diagonals at our front men to get behind their defensive line, or setting the team up to benefit from Carroll's flick-ons. Our defence had a proper game plan too; remember the high line, which was actually effective at pressuring the other team off the ball quickly? Or our triple-layered defensive line which made us impregnable in some games? When Pardew took over he brought nothing new to the team for a while and we did just fine. That, and he's a smug egoistic prick who will never learn from his mistakes or put any blame on himself ala Souness. Over the course of nearly 2 years he has taken over this side: Harper Simpson Williamson / Taylor Colo Enrique Jonas Nolan Tiote Barton Ameobi Lovenkrands And delivered a mid table finish without having the player the side was built around for half the season (despite being assured that he would have him) He then put out this side and delivered an 11 game unbeaten run. Again he had to do this without the striker and the left back he was promised in the summer: Krul Simpson Willo / Taylor Colo Taylor Obertan Tiote Cabaye Jonas Best Ba Then when that side ran out of steam in the middle third of the season (and a lot of people on here, who have clearly learnt nothing, started absolutely slaughtering him), he made the transition to this side: Krul Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Jonas Tiote Cabaye HBA Cisse Ba And delivered a 5th placed finish, far beyond anyones expectations. Thats not "a fluke", thats consistently good management over nearly 2 years. Compare to the many other managers we've had who don't manage to impose any system of play at all, and have clearly lost the players completely after less than a year. A big part of it has been the faith he has shown in squad players. I never saw any way Perch could play in the Premier League. Since leaving Guthrie has disappeared off the faith of the earth. I remember being incredulous that Best was starting v West Ham. Pardew talked him up in the press, stuck him in the team despite the barracking he would get if we lost, and Best got a hat trick and was very effective for the rest of the year. Hes now properly struggling for the 1st time in 2 years, but we are improving, and I'd back him to deliver a 4th effective starting XI. How about supporters actually show a bit of faith in him? You cannot possibly say he hasn't earned it. I believe the first 6 words of your final sentence reveal a lot about the motives behind your post in this thread, and that of a lot of other posters as well. Just to follow on from the above post: After struggling to find any shape or consistency at all until the new signings came in, Pardew seems to have gone straight to this system, although he appears willing to utilise slight variants on it: Krul Debuchy Taylor Coloccini Santon Jonas / HBA? Tiote Cabaye Gouffran Sissokho Cisse There is still HBA to come back in, and there are signs that Haidera and Mbiwa are both going to push very hard for a place in the starting XI. Perhaps Anita will too. I was surprised when I heard Pardew talking about how much he wanted Sissokho. I assumed a striker, right back and centre half were priorities and anything else was a bonus. The way he has instantly slotted him into the number 10 role suggests that even when things were at their worst in January he may have had this system in mind. Which is quite impressive really, if that is the case. It looks like we may finally have a recognizable shape for the 1st time this season, and 3 wins out of 4 plus progress in Europe can give us that 1st bit of momentum, something else that has been completely lacking. Was also interesting to see Llambias acknowledge Pardew's role in bringing players to the club in the programme at the weekend. Amongst other things he said: "We knew before Alan arrived that he was adept at organizing, motivating, and man-managing, and so he has proven. But he also works extremely well with our very experienced chief scout, Grahm, to identify the areas in which we need to strengthen and the skills and characteristics of the players needed to develop the squad". "Once Graham has identified the player, Alan and Graham then work very closely together until our target is acheived, before moving on to their next prospect. Its a continuous process and they both get excited about the type of players they want to bring in." "Scouting never stops ... it's a year round challenge for Alan, Graham, and his team. So naturally we are already planning for the summer and beyond". When you also look at the obvious respect he has from the likes of Coloccini and Ben Arfa, as well as the performances he can get from the likes of Perch and Ryan Taylor, and all the work he has done over the last 2 years and 3 months, it's obviously disingenuous to simply say "last year was a fluke and he is out of his depth". Who was in fashion 2 years ago? O'Neill and Hughes? Who would we get in now? Martinez or someone? He's going to show himself to be one of the best managers we have had and it's embarrassing to read the constant stream of snide comments and over the top criticism in this thread, even after an excellent month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TCD23 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Bit much saying he'll be one of the greatest we've ever had like! He has a proven record this season of horrible tactical decisions that have pretty much completely shaken my faith in him. Next season will tell us everything we need about him as a manger, this season all I care about is avoiding relegation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 ^^ When he gets into the CL for a couple of years on the trot i'll reckon you might be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexthegreat Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Bit much saying he'll be one of the greatest we've ever had like! He has a proven record this season of horrible tactical decisions that have pretty much completely shaken my faith in him. Next season will tell us everything we need about him as a manger, this season all I care about is avoiding relegation. Know what you mean, but it's actually not really anywhere near as an impressive an accolade as it sounds. There's Keegan, Robson, Harvey (well before my time) Who else? I agree, next season will define his managerial career Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I still rate him. As he integrates Anita into the side we are playing better football. Hes an option for the back 4 to play it out to and we've launched it a lot less in the last 2 games as a result. I doubted Anita, but hes starting to prove me wrong. With the ball on the deck more Ba and Cisse are starting to show signs they can play together. There is still a long way to go here though, but credit to Pardew for not giving up on it. The intensity (and ability) of our midfield covered a multitude of deficiencies last year. Cabaye and Tiote consistently covered more ground than anyone on the pitch, and Jonas would run miles too. We would win 2nd balls, put sides under pressure and control the middle against all but the best teams. Consequently a team containing Obertan, Best, Simpson, Taylor went 11 unbeaten. We just haven't had that this season. But I think Tiote is starting to get back to what he was and Anita may be able to forge an effective partnership with him. He is showing too much loyalty to Jonas though, and it is costing us. Hopefully Marveaux can follow Anita into the side and complete an absolute turn around from their horror 1st half at Everton. Get Cabaye back and 1 or 2 players in January without losing anyone, and I'm hopeful we'll look very good for the cups and 2nd half of the season. Improved 2nd half performances make it clear the players are still playing for him, and I see plenty of signs of improvement and reasons to be positive. Really don't understand a lot of the criticism in this thread. The main reason I dislike Pardew is that its very hard to see any intelligent or logical thought behind his tactics, beyond personal preference. Even when we were going direct with Hughton, we had a game plan, i.e. getting Barton to hit long diagonals at our front men to get behind their defensive line, or setting the team up to benefit from Carroll's flick-ons. Our defence had a proper game plan too; remember the high line, which was actually effective at pressuring the other team off the ball quickly? Or our triple-layered defensive line which made us impregnable in some games? When Pardew took over he brought nothing new to the team for a while and we did just fine. That, and he's a smug egoistic prick who will never learn from his mistakes or put any blame on himself ala Souness. Over the course of nearly 2 years he has taken over this side: Harper Simpson Williamson / Taylor Colo Enrique Jonas Nolan Tiote Barton Ameobi Lovenkrands And delivered a mid table finish without having the player the side was built around for half the season (despite being assured that he would have him) He then put out this side and delivered an 11 game unbeaten run. Again he had to do this without the striker and the left back he was promised in the summer: Krul Simpson Willo / Taylor Colo Taylor Obertan Tiote Cabaye Jonas Best Ba Then when that side ran out of steam in the middle third of the season (and a lot of people on here, who have clearly learnt nothing, started absolutely slaughtering him), he made the transition to this side: Krul Simpson Williamson Colo Santon Jonas Tiote Cabaye HBA Cisse Ba And delivered a 5th placed finish, far beyond anyones expectations. Thats not "a fluke", thats consistently good management over nearly 2 years. Compare to the many other managers we've had who don't manage to impose any system of play at all, and have clearly lost the players completely after less than a year. A big part of it has been the faith he has shown in squad players. I never saw any way Perch could play in the Premier League. Since leaving Guthrie has disappeared off the faith of the earth. I remember being incredulous that Best was starting v West Ham. Pardew talked him up in the press, stuck him in the team despite the barracking he would get if we lost, and Best got a hat trick and was very effective for the rest of the year. Hes now properly struggling for the 1st time in 2 years, but we are improving, and I'd back him to deliver a 4th effective starting XI. How about supporters actually show a bit of faith in him? You cannot possibly say he hasn't earned it. I believe the first 6 words of your final sentence reveal a lot about the motives behind your post in this thread, and that of a lot of other posters as well. Just to follow on from the above post: After struggling to find any shape or consistency at all until the new signings came in, Pardew seems to have gone straight to this system, although he appears willing to utilise slight variants on it: Krul Debuchy Taylor Coloccini Santon Jonas / HBA? Tiote Cabaye Gouffran Sissokho Cisse There is still HBA to come back in, and there are signs that Haidera and Mbiwa are both going to push very hard for a place in the starting XI. Perhaps Anita will too. I was surprised when I heard Pardew talking about how much he wanted Sissokho. I assumed a striker, right back and centre half were priorities and anything else was a bonus. The way he has instantly slotted him into the number 10 role suggests that even when things were at their worst in January he may have had this system in mind. Which is quite impressive really, if that is the case. It looks like we may finally have a recognizable shape for the 1st time this season, and 3 wins out of 4 plus progress in Europe can give us that 1st bit of momentum, something else that has been completely lacking. Was also interesting to see Llambias acknowledge Pardew's role in bringing players to the club in the programme at the weekend. Amongst other things he said: "We knew before Alan arrived that he was adept at organizing, motivating, and man-managing, and so he has proven. But he also works extremely well with our very experienced chief scout, Grahm, to identify the areas in which we need to strengthen and the skills and characteristics of the players needed to develop the squad". "Once Graham has identified the player, Alan and Graham then work very closely together until our target is acheived, before moving on to their next prospect. Its a continuous process and they both get excited about the type of players they want to bring in." "Scouting never stops ... it's a year round challenge for Alan, Graham, and his team. So naturally we are already planning for the summer and beyond". When you also look at the obvious respect he has from the likes of Coloccini and Ben Arfa, as well as the performances he can get from the likes of Perch and Ryan Taylor, and all the work he has done over the last 2 years and 3 months, it's obviously disingenuous to simply say "last year was a fluke and he is out of his depth". Who was in fashion 2 years ago? O'Neill and Hughes? Who would we get in now? Martinez or someone? He's going to show himself to be one of the best managers we have had and it's embarrassing to read the constant stream of snide comments and over the top criticism in this thread, even after an excellent month. Nobody at all is doubting his man management skills which seem to be excellent. Yet it's his tactical attributes and his ability to get our team and players playing to their potential. Can you honestly say that you think our team has been playing to their best this season? Also before you mention the injuries other managers in the league have a lot worse group of players [/Pardew] to work with and get more out of them than Pardew has us. It's also not just about appointing somebody that is flavour of the month. For example I've been wanting us to appoint Michael Laudrup ever since Keegan walked out. It's about appointing a manager who can get the best out of the players we've got at the current moment in time. The crux of it for me is our squad has now outgrown the managerial ability of Pardew. There's no point of getting rid of him now but if there's a chance of us in the summer of appointing somebody that is an upgrade on Pardew then we must do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Pardew is like any manager - he's strong in some areas (man management and motivation) and weak in others (I still can't fathom how we're as shit as we are at set pieces and his substitutions can be daft). While some of the criticism he gets on here is justified there's a large amount which is hysterical bollocks and not really rooted in reality. He's did much more good than bad in his time here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Pardew is like any manager - he's strong in some areas (man management and motivation) and weak in others (I still can't fathom how we're as shit as we are at set pieces and his substitutions can be daft). While some of the criticism he gets on here is justified there's a large amount which is hysterical bollocks and not really rooted in reality. He's did much more good than bad in his time here. We have been shit this season so a lot of criticism has been justified but I still get the feeling a few were just waiting for the chance to lay into him. Probably the same who almost had to admit through gritted teeth last season he had done a good job whilst spending most of it claiming his luck would run out eventually etc.. That being said he does need to improve on a few things. Tbf we do seem to be improving our ability to win away/come back from behind so that's a big step forward for me. He needs to work on getting the players up for it from the start of each half though, that's the real remaining issue for me. He often gets knocked for things he doesn't do a fair bit mind. It's becoming a bit of comical the "yeah but knowing Pardew..." thing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Pardew is like any manager - he's strong in some areas (man management and motivation) and weak in others (I still can't fathom how we're as shit as we are at set pieces and his substitutions can be daft). While some of the criticism he gets on here is justified there's a large amount which is hysterical bollocks and not really rooted in reality. He's did much more good than bad in his time here. We have been shit this season so a lot of criticism has been justified but I still get the feeling a few were just waiting for the chance to lay into him. Probably the same who almost had to admit through gritted teeth last season he had done a good job whilst spending most of it claiming his luck would run out eventually etc.. That being said he does need to improve on a few things. Tbf we do seem to be improving our ability to win away/come back from behind so that's a big step forward for me. He needs to work on getting the players up for it from the start of each half though, that's the real remaining issue for me. He often gets knocked for things he doesn't do a fair bit mind. It's becoming a bit of comical the "yeah but knowing Pardew..." thing :.lol: It all depends on the context of how people see the manager and what they do at the club. Pardew has got that not coming back from behind hoodoo well out of the window which is a massive step forward IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 What does he get knocked for for doing things that the doesn't do? Genuine question as I really don't know. Also a lot of people gave Pardew credit last season of which he fully deserved, I don't think there were many at all who were saying it through gritted teeth. A lot of people did say though that we never particularly played great football and played solid/compact football and tended to score through Ba's clinical finishing at the start of the season and combined with a really solid defence who kept things tight at our own end. Then that 5 game spell or whatever it was when he completely took everybody by surprise with that 4-3-3 and it was the best football we've played for quite some time. Then when we lost at Wigan he reverted to type again. Whereas this season he has deserved criticism for a number of things and I don't think it's anything at all to do with having an agenda. It's blatant to see that he still doesn't know how to implement a really successful attacking gameplan as we still don't really create chances for Cisse either, even though our options across the park are now much improved on what he has had to work with before. Ben Arfa of course will change this when he comes back, but if he gets injured again it's going to be another concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Probably the same who almost had to admit through gritted teeth last season he had done a good job whilst spending most of it claiming his luck would run out eventually etc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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