Kick It Out

[Cajun]

The whole Kenweyne Jones thing reminds me of Mido and him looking like Richard Reid (the shoe bomber).

 

Doesn't work for me as the Kenweyne Jones thing is comparing him to hundreds (thousands?) of different people where as the Mido one is comparing him to one person who he actually does look like.

 

[Wullie]

It's not because he's black per se though is it, he obviously looks a lot more like your stereotypical beach trader than, for example, Jermaine Defoe does. And it's obviously being done in a contemptuous way, "Kenwyne Jones is a really canny lad" doesn't have quite the same terrace tone about it, but that's not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself any more than calling Kevin Phillips 'Ratboy'.

 

At its base level it's essentially the same insult - it's picking up on a particular characteristic of a person's appearance and using it to insult them, of which being black is only part of that appearance. If I go to the match and call Gareth Bale a chimp faced f***ing cheat, nobody cares, nor do they care if I sing about Peter Reid having a monkey's heed. Now if I aim the same insult at an unspecified black player, even one I'd singled out purely on the basis that his features, like Bale or Reid, really really looked like a monkey, that's an automatic banning order, no questions asked

 

We are in a time and place where, if the person is black, commenting on their appearance is effectively not acceptable, no matter what the comment. I don't necessarily have a problem with that as a zero tolerance approach has probably helped us get where we are today but I don't think it's right to call people racists if they choose to sing that particular song because I don't think it's as clear cut as you make out.

 

Context is hugely important. Calling Peter Reid a monkey and a black person a monkey clearly have completely different connotations if you have any knowledge of the historical context.  As does comparing a black player to a beach seller. I think the crowd are clearly making Jones feel condescended towards in large part because of his race. If I had a white mate with big ears and high cheekbones, and a black mate with dreadlocks - while I wouldn't think it was very nice to call my white mate a monkey, saying "oh you look like one of those african guys who sell cheap watches on beaches" is going to make my black mate feel a lot more excluded and stir up much stronger emotions.

 

It's like calling someone a black bastard is clearly means a lot more than calling someone an English bastard.

 

I'm well aware of the contextual issues but what you're saying there is exactly what I said - that you have to be far more careful when taking about the appearance of a black person compared to that of a white person, even when it's not malicious, even when it's actually unrelated to their colour. Some people think that a comment like "*Black person A* looks like *Black person B*" is racist. If that was said on television you'd see a string of complaints.

 

We're seeing this same zero tolerance approach spread into other groups. Rowan Atkinson talks about the police horse - if you call someone gay and are arrested for it, it is automatically classed as a "hate crime" and treated as an aggravating factor at sentence. You'd get a banning order from football for what is a playground insult. I've encountered a case recently where someone has been arrested and charged for calling someone a Scottish twat and from there we're not that far off calling someone a mackem being raised as a racial issue - that's not hyperbole.

 

I would never condone racism and I think it's great that we've come so far in such a relatively short time but we are in danger of being over-sensitive now in the UK. I don't have any sympathy for people who go to jail for posting nasty racist stuff online, mainly cos I think if you're gonna be such a cunt and that stupid then tough shit. But it's a dangerous road for that to now be a more likely jail sentence than walking up to someone and punching them in the face, or burgling their house, which it is.

 

Part of the problem with this sensitivity is that I don't think the UK is able to have a mature debate on the issue because of it. I agree with TheHoob's point on this. I just think we need to pull back and gain a little bit of perspective - sticks and stones.

[brummie]

A large section of Hull's fans on Saturday were singing "You're not English anymore" at us.

 

I'd like to think that's something other than racially oriented, but apparently it's a popular song with those EDL knuckle heads.

 

Deeply disappointed if that's what it was about.

[Ste]

The striker they will be pinning their hopes on to score goals isn't English, what is their point?

[brummie]

The striker they will be pinning their hopes on to score goals isn't English, what is their point?

 

I think it's about Birmingham being multiracial. It's certainly not about the nationality of footballers.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

A large section of Hull's fans on Saturday were singing "You're not English anymore" at us.

 

I'd like to think that's something other than racially oriented, but apparently it's a popular song with those EDL knuckle heads.

 

Deeply disappointed if that's what it was about.

 

Could it not be because you are owned by Lerner

[BlueStar]

I know Chelsea fans sang it to Arsenal because of their lack of English players.  And EDL idiots sing it to counter-protestors.  Not sure what Hull would be on about, they're not especially known for a nationalist or racist element but then every club has their share of fuckwits.

 

I've heard people wing "You're not famous any more" to teams like Villa, Forest and Leeds, assume it was clearly 'English' they were singing?

[brummie]

I know Chelsea fans sang it to Arsenal because of their lack of English players.  And EDL idiots sing it to counter-protestors.  Not sure what Hull would be on about, they're not especially known for a nationalist or racist element but then every club has their share of fuckwits.

 

I've heard people wing "You're not famous any more" to teams like Villa, Forest and Leeds, assume it was clearly 'English' they were singing?

 

It was definitely English they were singing. It can't be about Lerner, their own owner was born outside the UK, too. And is also Asian, which makes it very strange.