PLEASE READ - Blanket ban on Football Videos

[Nobody]

To be fair, this wasn't some sort of crackdown.  It was just us changing the rule slightly, and letting everyone know about it.  People will more than likely get an warning, providing it's not their 20th odd time doing it.

 

Towelie, no idea.  I'm too tired.

atleast you won't ban me if i do that then

[James]

To be fair, this wasn't some sort of crackdown.  It was just us changing the rule slightly, and letting everyone know about it.  People will more than likely get an warning, providing it's not their 20th odd time doing it.

 

 

Then a perfectly sensible solution has been taken. If I was to post a link, I would expect to be fairly banned within 10 minutes, whereas you would be right to give less regulars a warning. Nothing more for me to debate about really, keep up the good work

[Guest Paul Allen]

Suggestion about the new members....i'm sure you've already thought of this...but when they register for this site....send them a link to activate their account and after they click that link..they can be rerouted to a warning forum...explaining atleast the above rules....

[merlin]

Frankly, who cares about this? If this IS an effort to specifically monitor & close any NUFC-related sites, it shows we've got 'em worried, doesn't it !?

I don't think many people, particularly younger ones, realise how much Democracy & Free Speech IS under attack these days, and NOT just in Football ; think about the latest Russian spy death, and the Kelly incident a few years ago.....

 

However, its more likely that this latest edict is just another illustration of the rampant greed endemic in the game, with all parties desperately trying to grab every last penny from whatever source, including

copyrights.

 

As long as you are not directly libellous or abusive in commenting, and make it clear it is YOUR OPINION,

there is very little that those who want the sites closed down can do - just DON'T use any material that may be copyright , and that will hurt them far more....

 

Big Brother is here to stay until the revolution comes.....!!!

[ross magoo]

Nae bather mate - tbh we've been having similar problems at Dundee Utd on arabfever.co.uk - some fuckin clown thought it would be a good idea to have the site sponsored by Setanta - now we can't post links to match highlights.  Pure nightmare like.

[BlufPurdi]

 

Unlucky.

[womblemaster]

better to set up a section on the forum that is not visible by those without permissions.

 

only invite members with 1k+ posts; make that the area for links, any in normal forum removed asap.

 

 

[Guest maroonman]

Nae bather mate - tbh we've been having similar problems at Dundee Utd on arabfever.co.uk - some fuckin clown thought it would be a good idea to have the site sponsored by Setanta - now we can't post links to match highlights. Pure nightmare like.

 

I would have thought that was a good thing for you Arabs!

[Guest maroonman]

You wonder where this will end given the way this country is going.

 

Will fans opinion be monitored too? Will there eventually be a ban on criticism of Sir Freddy, the players, management etc.?

 

:roll:

[Rob W]

There already is - its the libel & slander  laws

 

the reason they don't come after anyone on here is because we are, legally, "men of straw" - ie we have no $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to sue us for

 

but if it got out of hand they might apply for an injunction against the board

 

Remember a couple of years ago when people were "outing" all sorts of behviour by PL players?  The mods on every board  had to rule with a rod of iron to keep things straight (no pun intended)

[Guest GHoeberX]

How happy I am, Kluivert is not playing at Newcastle. I'd be pretty pissed off if this happens on the PSV-board. And if Kluivert was still playing at Newcastle, I'd go search for a less mainstream NUFC-board where video IS allowed.

 

Legally speaking, STREAMS are very illegal and I never did anything with streaming. However, everybody knows here I made a lot of compilations and actually it's legal. It's just like DJs mixing audio; I mix video. This is absolutely not illegal, so HTT or some admin should stop being such a sissy because FA ain't have SHIT on you when you put compilations here in this forum.

 

Another example is MaXXeD (I won't put the URL but that's a site where full match torrents/compilations/streams are being put) who were also charged by FA. The admin of MaXXeD closed EVERYTHING and I told him to stop being a pussy about that. After he started negotiating and learning more about the legal aspects, the result was that all streams were prohibited as they VERY ILLEGAL. Full matches on torrents are a bit in on the border while compilations (made by internet-amateurs) are 100% LEGAL. And guess what: during the last months MaXXeD is hosting full matches and compilations and the FA-watchdogs (like Netresult, which is the agency which targets internet sites with FA-footage) have left them alone.

 

So admins: STAND UP, SPEAK UP instead of killing the freedom/liberty of the users here with these pathetic measures.

[Cajun]

How happy I am, Kluivert is not playing at Newcastle. I'd be pretty pissed off if this happens on the PSV-board. And if Kluivert was still playing at Newcastle, I'd go search for a less mainstream NUFC-board where video IS allowed.

 

Legally speaking, STREAMS are very illegal and I never did anything with streaming. However, everybody knows here I made a lot of compilations and actually it's legal. It's just like DJs mixing audio; I mix video. This is absolutely not illegal, so HTT or some admin should stop being such a sissy because FA ain't have SHIT on you when you put compilations here in this forum.

 

Another example is MaXXeD (I won't put the URL but that's a site where full match torrents/compilations/streams are being put) who were also charged by FA. The admin of MaXXeD closed EVERYTHING and I told him to stop being a pussy about that. After he started negotiating and learning more about the legal aspects, the result was that all streams were prohibited as they VERY ILLEGAL. Full matches on torrents are a bit in on the border while compilations (made by internet-amateurs) are 100% LEGAL. And guess what: during the last months MaXXeD is hosting full matches and compilations and the FA-watchdogs (like Netresult, which is the agency which targets internet sites with FA-footage) have left them alone.

 

So admins: STAND UP, SPEAK UP

 

Does Kluivert still play or is he still "injured"?

[James]

How happy I am, Kluivert is not playing at Newcastle. I'd be pretty pissed off if this happens on the PSV-board. And if Kluivert was still playing at Newcastle, I'd go search for a less mainstream NUFC-board where video IS allowed.

 

Legally speaking, STREAMS are very illegal and I never did anything with streaming. However, everybody knows here I made a lot of compilations and actually it's legal. It's just like DJs mixing audio; I mix video. This is absolutely not illegal, so HTT or some admin should stop being such a sissy because FA ain't have SHIT on you when you put compilations here in this forum.

 

Another example is MaXXeD (I won't put the URL but that's a site where full match torrents/compilations/streams are being put) who were also charged by FA. The admin of MaXXeD closed EVERYTHING and I told him to stop being a pussy about that. After he started negotiating and learning more about the legal aspects, the result was that all streams were prohibited as they VERY ILLEGAL. Full matches on torrents are a bit in on the border while compilations (made by internet-amateurs) are 100% LEGAL. And guess what: during the last months MaXXeD is hosting full matches and compilations and the FA-watchdogs (like Netresult, which is the agency which targets internet sites with FA-footage) have left them alone.

 

So admins: STAND UP, SPEAK UP instead of killing the freedom/liberty of the users here with these pathetic measures.

 

Perhaps Maxxed can afford the risk, but Newcastle United have complained about very minor things, and in the past, they have found that threatening the server (the server, not the site) with legal action has been enough for the servers to delete the likes of howaythetoon and toon-chat without giving any warning.

[Ally]

How happy I am, Kluivert is not playing at Newcastle.

 

Aye, me too.

[Guest GHoeberX]

Perhaps Maxxed can afford the risk, but Newcastle United have complained about very minor things, and in the past, they have found that threatening the server (the server, not the site) with legal action has been enough for the servers to delete the likes of howaythetoon and toon-chat without giving any warning.

 

Oh my bad then. I know this kind of webhosters.... as soon as there is one complaint they close the site. Very annoying. I'd seriously advise you to get another webhoster or make some deals with your webhoster, just like I did with mine. As soon as companies will come to my webhoster, my webhoster will never close the site without consulting me first.

[Bad Mongo]

Fixture Lists are copyrighted believe it or not, and the two previous incarnations which merged to form Newcastle-Online (aka howaythetoon and ToonChat) both got closed down by their servers without warning after NUFC threatened the server with legal action. It is illegal to post more than 5 fixtures at a time I understand.

 

Newcastle World is the official website. The only thing from there we can post without breaking copyright as far as I understand is the text articles which you dont have to pay subscription for, and even then you must post a direct link to the page in question.

 

The fixture dates aren't copyrighted. You can't copyright facts, not even if they are wrong. What is copyrighted is the specific list, presented in one (or several) specific way(s). If you make a fixture list with a new form of presentation, the FA can't possibly have a valid copyright claim against you. Of course, validity has never been much of an issue when it comes to the copyrights of the super rich, so they can (and probably will) have their lawyers rape you until you just do as they say.

[Dave]

New form of presentation?

 

Just don't post fixture lists, full stop. It's not worth the risk.

 

Thanks.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Fixture Lists are copyrighted believe it or not, and the two previous incarnations which merged to form Newcastle-Online (aka howaythetoon and ToonChat) both got closed down by their servers without warning after NUFC threatened the server with legal action. It is illegal to post more than 5 fixtures at a time I understand.

 

Newcastle World is the official website. The only thing from there we can post without breaking copyright as far as I understand is the text articles which you dont have to pay subscription for, and even then you must post a direct link to the page in question.

 

The fixture dates aren't copyrighted. You can't copyright facts, not even if they are wrong. What is copyrighted is the specific list, presented in one (or several) specific way(s). If you make a fixture list with a new form of presentation, the FA can't possibly have a valid copyright claim against you. Of course, validity has never been much of an issue when it comes to the copyrights of the super rich, so they can (and probably will) have their lawyers rape you until you just do as they say.

 

you can copyright the fact that team A is playing team B on date x if that combination was generated by your own enterprise, surely?

 

no matter how you present it, you are publishing the protected information i.e. team A is playing team B on date x

[Dave]

Exactly.

[Bad Mongo]

No, it's not protected knowledge. It's public knowledge, since it's widely published. The problem with the fixture copyrights is that it's the result of a lawsuit in 1959, which hasn't been challenged later, and now there's an enormous amount of money in it -- some of which is also returned to the clubs, and not only rich Premiership clubs. <A href="http://www.mg.co.za/articledirect.aspx?articleid=259822">Here</A> is an article about it. The fact that so many poorer clubs get money from the fixtures would probably make a new trial more difficult, and the fact that there's so much money in it would make it more drawn-out and expensive. That doesn't make any copyright claim to the facts valid, it just shows that the legal system protects the rich.

 

Facts can't be copyrighted. "The types of work eligible for protection are literary, dramatic, artistic or musical works, the typographical arrangement of a published edition, a sound recording, a film or a broadcast." (From <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom">Wikipedia</A>.) A fixture list would have to be considered as a typographical arrangement or a literary work. As a typographical arrangement, it could be re-arranged, and as a literary work, you have  protected rights when it comes to quotations: "Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement and provided that the work has been made available to the public." You do have some protected rights when it comes to publishing from the fixture lists, but you certainly can't legally publish them verbatim. You can, however, comment on our next games without keeping the names of our opponents and the fixture dates a secret.

[James]

No, it's not protected knowledge. It's public knowledge, since it's widely published. The problem with the fixture copyrights is that it's the result of a lawsuit in 1959, which hasn't been challenged later, and now there's an enormous amount of money in it -- some of which is also returned to the clubs, and not only rich Premiership clubs. <A href="http://www.mg.co.za/articledirect.aspx?articleid=259822">Here</A> is an article about it. The fact that so many poorer clubs get money from the fixtures would probably make a new trial more difficult, and the fact that there's so much money in it would make it more drawn-out and expensive. That doesn't make any copyright claim to the facts valid, it just shows that the legal system protects the rich.

 

Facts can't be copyrighted. "The types of work eligible for protection are literary, dramatic, artistic or musical works, the typographical arrangement of a published edition, a sound recording, a film or a broadcast." (From <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_Kingdom">Wikipedia</A>.) A fixture list would have to be considered as a typographical arrangement or a literary work. As a typographical arrangement, it could be re-arranged, and as a literary work, you have  protected rights when it comes to quotations: "Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement and provided that the work has been made available to the public." You do have some protected rights when it comes to publishing from the fixture lists, but you certainly can't legally publish them verbatim. You can, however, comment on our next games without keeping the names of our opponents and the fixture dates a secret.

 

Websites (including the two previous incarnations of this forum) have actually been closed down becuase someone has posted more than 6 fixtures next to each other (without dates). The fact that we cant show fixture lists is indisputable.

[Nobody]

The fixture list copyright is the dumbest thing i've ever heard. how the hell can that be copyrighted? bizarre really!

[Bad Mongo]

Websites (including the two previous incarnations of this forum) have actually been closed down becuase someone has posted more than 6 fixtures next to each other (without dates). The fact that we cant show fixture lists is indisputable.

 

Certainly, but that's because of bullying, not because of what you have the legal right to do. In fact, "The European court of justice [...] ruled [November 9, 2004] that the Premier League and Football League cannot demand payment from media and pools companies over publication of fixture lists and match information." That's from <A href="http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1347339,00.html">The Guardian</A>, btw. You shouldn't mistake the effect of scary and official-looking cease and desist letters for copyright law.

 

I'm not disputing the fact that we can't post fixture lists, I dispute the legality. There's no evidence that posting 6 fixtures next to each other is illegal, since it's never been tried in a court of law. It also probably never will be tried, since <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_DataCo">DataCo</A> can scare internet providers into closing sites down.

[Cajun]

How can they charge for fixture lists if its not illegal to post them anyway?

[ToonTastic]

It is illegal to post fixture lists, there is currently a case going through the courts somewhere as someone decided to fight back against there club for showing the fixtures. It's been on going for ages so until the outcome of that sites still can't post them. Fan sites also don't get the backing of any of the press because they have to pay for their fixtures and so won't stand up for the fan sites who won't, even though they will benefit if the law changes.

 

As for who's going to do anything, the club has got in touch with me personally twice before about the sites this one and toontastic. Both times threatened with lawyers and frankly I didn't have the cash or the time to argue so just took the stuff down. Thankfully now it's not my worry, if the club comes and asks for stuff to be taken down I can say the site is nothing to do with me which is nice

 

There are plenty of sites available which have streams to all the matches that anyone could possibly want and the Premiership and the clubs are never going to get them shut down, soom clubs like Liverpool don't even want them shut down i don't think because they openly let their fans sites use stuff like that, Newcastle United on the other hand crack down harder than most typically of our two bit club really. But because there are loads of stream sites and the rules are very obvious and spelt out on here the fact is if people want to post links to streams and fixtures etc then find another board it's that simple.