Alan Pardew

[Guest firetotheworks]

There's very good things about this side but there is too many gaping holes for it to be a very good side in general.

There's a massive difference between the two.

 

Yeah i know what you mean, i'm just generally very happy with how this side is taken shape, there's a lot to like about it and i don't think they are getting the praise they deserve simply because people have issues with management/owners. We have a lot of players other clubs around us would absolutely love to have and we are taken them for granted.

 

See, this is where you make absolutely no sense to me. Are you discounting Pardew from this side? If so, why?

 

I should also add that people don't just have issues with the management/owners, it's also approach to games, performances, tactics and results. You can't pick and choose, when there's more to it than just Pardew and Ashley.

[BrettNUFC]

If I thought that we were a very good side, I'd be disappointed with finishing 8th.

 

I just realise the top 6 have improved greatly over past couple of year and the task of catching them up is becoming harder. It's a tough league, just got to try and keep pushing on and bring the calibre of players like Remy to the club. Not an easy task but we have improved the talent within our squad over the years but just not as quickly as the top teams can afford to do it.

 

Ignoring the semantics of being a very good side for the moment (fwiw a very good side shouldn't be happy with 8th imo)

 

I don't think those sides have improved in so much as the others have fallen away. The collective gap is still the same imo. The only teams that have clearly improved are Liverpool imo. Arsenal look better, but the rest have dropped a level in quality or remained the same, imo.

 

Spurs have just bought themselves a new squad what should be good enough to challenge for title, they haven't even unleashed Lamela yet. Only the champions have really failed to move forward, the rest have done so. Just because i think we are a good side doesn't mean to say i think we are better than Liverpool and should be taking their 6th place finish. We are behind them in terms of quality. You have people on here saying 8th isn't good enough but then think we will be in a relegation battle.

 

Neither of those two things are mutually exclusive. Just because you won't accept one thing, doesn't mean you'll accept another. You wouldn't take a tenner for your car just because you've been offered a quid. 8th isn't good enough in terms of our current ambition. Absolutely not. Never. It's certainly not good enough for a side that I would ever describe as very good.

 

Well what do you want this side to do? Magically conjure up another level of ability and break the top 6? I'm sure our players will give it their best shot in doing so but unfortunately it's going to be hard when likes of Liverpool who are probably favourites for 6th spot aren't going to drop that many points to fall out of it. You can't see any side in that top 6 realistically falling short of it because of the talent they have. It’s not like us and likes of Everton are poor, it’s just the top 6 is very strong this year.

[Beren]

I'm so impressed with KI's patience right now

[alexf]

Who was it who said it was too quiet in here again? Guess it didn't take long

[Guest firetotheworks]

If I thought that we were a very good side, I'd be disappointed with finishing 8th.

 

I just realise the top 6 have improved greatly over past couple of year and the task of catching them up is becoming harder. It's a tough league, just got to try and keep pushing on and bring the calibre of players like Remy to the club. Not an easy task but we have improved the talent within our squad over the years but just not as quickly as the top teams can afford to do it.

 

Ignoring the semantics of being a very good side for the moment (fwiw a very good side shouldn't be happy with 8th imo)

 

I don't think those sides have improved in so much as the others have fallen away. The collective gap is still the same imo. The only teams that have clearly improved are Liverpool imo. Arsenal look better, but the rest have dropped a level in quality or remained the same, imo.

 

Spurs have just bought themselves a new squad what should be good enough to challenge for title, they haven't even unleashed Lamela yet. Only the champions have really failed to move forward, the rest have done so. Just because i think we are a good side doesn't mean to say i think we are better than Liverpool and should be taking their 6th place finish. We are behind them in terms of quality. You have people on here saying 8th isn't good enough but then think we will be in a relegation battle.

 

Neither of those two things are mutually exclusive. Just because you won't accept one thing, doesn't mean you'll accept another. You wouldn't take a tenner for your car just because you've been offered a quid. 8th isn't good enough in terms of our current ambition. Absolutely not. Never. It's certainly not good enough for a side that I would ever describe as very good.

 

Well what do you want this side to do? Magically conjure up another level of ability and break the top 6? I'm sure our players will give it their best shot in doing so but unfortunately it's going to be hard when likes of Liverpool who are probably favourites for 6th spot aren't going to drop that many points to fall out of it. You can't see any side in that top 6 realistically falling short of it because of the talent they have. It’s not like us and likes of Everton are poor, it’s just the top 6 is very strong this year.

 

Magically conjure? Nah, I'd like us to put our collective playing talent to good use and win football matches with positive tactical game plans, play as a team and go out there and play with confidence. To have an owner that invests into the team and to actually strives to get there rather than just be happy with staying in the league and not bothering with any cups.

 

I'd like a manager that isn't fucking shite. You know, that kind of magic hocus pocus that we support a team for. The basics.

 

Magically conjure ffs. Jesus.

[Guest Haris Vuckic]

This thread

 

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/sd1k7c.jpg

 

[TRon]

a few game results doesn't determine the outcome of the ability of your side.

It does.

 

 

f***ing hell. Not even bothering to answer that. So silly like. Proper silly.

 

 

Come back with a more reasonable example than Man United and it might be worthy of debate. As things stand, it's totally silly and not worth talking about.

 

Southampton have went from an average side to a very good side side because they have won the last 3 with 3 clean sheets and five goals in the process and one of the teams they've defeated is Liverpool away?

 

What's the main difference between Southampton and us? Would you swap our squad with theirs? I don't think so. I'd suggest the main difference is they have a manager who knows exactly what he wants and how to get it, rather than scratch his head wondering like Stan fucking Laurel.

 

http://www.lordheath.com/web_images/stan_laurel___thicker_than_water.jpg

[Guest firetotheworks]

The scratching his head thing made me laugh like. The implication seemed to be a sort of 'eeh, what are we like eh?' and that if someone like Pardew can't work out whether we're very good or very bad that us mere mortals have no chance. When the reality is that he's simply an idiot.

[Dave]

Claiming the players are 'doing us proud' is too obvious Brett. Quality trolling involves being ambiguous enough that people aren't sure.

[Happy Face]

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously.

 

Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be.  His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support.  Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection).  The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment.  There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands.  There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome.

 

Despite the enemies in the press Keegan had found while in charge of England, and the uncertainty it bred, Newcastle fans could all see the seeds of a more positive outlook in the few games he had, before Ashley screwed up.  Keegan went and Kinnear came in.  Whoever got the job was going to be less popular than Fergie's replacement, but Kinnear was a slap in the face and left the club on a downward spiral.  His near death experience in the new year came as blessed relief, but Ashley dilly dallied on a replacement.  Shearer eventually got the job on a temporary basis only, with just a few games left to save us.  Very few Newcastle fans were convinced bringing in an inexperienced young fella that had played with half the squad was a good move, short or long term.  And when we went down and Shearer wasn't given the long term role, few were lamenting his departure more than relegation itself.  The promotion from within of Hughton was underwhelming, but generally accepted.  He did a job in the championship and was very popular by the time he got sacked.  Another example of Ashley taking a club on the up and seemingly want to push it back down. 

 

Pardew's appointment was derided by everyone watching.  His achievents in 11/12 convinced no-one paying close attention to the football on display, but was gladly accepted as possibly attractuing a better calibre of manager, unfortunately it saw Pardew rewarded with an 8 year contract that gave the football world a laugh and is perceived to have bitten us on the bum now that he is struggling.  It didn't really because we know the contract is only tight enough for suitors chasing Pardew, not for the club choosing to jettison him.

 

But we are left with a rare opportunity in the ownership of Mike Ashley, one where he can sack the manager and not have the manager coming in on the back foot.  Anyone Ashley appointed should benefit from an overwhelmingly positive reaction from the stands.  There are doubtless dozens of young up and coming managers around the world that would be made welcome, or if Ashley showed the ambition to go and get a proven manager with years of experience the entire club would be lifted.  The eternal optimism I have still keeps me hoping Pardew can put a run together.  That optimism, i know in my heart, is about as misplaced as any optimism that Ashley can correct the litany of mistakes above and bring in a man to unite us all on a charge up the table.  The more likely appointment would be Kinnearesque, if not Kinnear himself.

 

...but if Ashley ever had the opportunity to make a popular decision, it could follow the upcoming games against Liverpool, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I honestly don't believe that Brett is trolling, like. That's the tragedy. I almost feel bad for having any kind of debate with you Brett, because you seem blissfully ignorant and I don't want to make you unhappy.

[BrettNUFC]

If I thought that we were a very good side, I'd be disappointed with finishing 8th.

 

I just realise the top 6 have improved greatly over past couple of year and the task of catching them up is becoming harder. It's a tough league, just got to try and keep pushing on and bring the calibre of players like Remy to the club. Not an easy task but we have improved the talent within our squad over the years but just not as quickly as the top teams can afford to do it.

 

Ignoring the semantics of being a very good side for the moment (fwiw a very good side shouldn't be happy with 8th imo)

 

I don't think those sides have improved in so much as the others have fallen away. The collective gap is still the same imo. The only teams that have clearly improved are Liverpool imo. Arsenal look better, but the rest have dropped a level in quality or remained the same, imo.

 

Spurs have just bought themselves a new squad what should be good enough to challenge for title, they haven't even unleashed Lamela yet. Only the champions have really failed to move forward, the rest have done so. Just because i think we are a good side doesn't mean to say i think we are better than Liverpool and should be taking their 6th place finish. We are behind them in terms of quality. You have people on here saying 8th isn't good enough but then think we will be in a relegation battle.

 

Neither of those two things are mutually exclusive. Just because you won't accept one thing, doesn't mean you'll accept another. You wouldn't take a tenner for your car just because you've been offered a quid. 8th isn't good enough in terms of our current ambition. Absolutely not. Never. It's certainly not good enough for a side that I would ever describe as very good.

 

Well what do you want this side to do? Magically conjure up another level of ability and break the top 6? I'm sure our players will give it their best shot in doing so but unfortunately it's going to be hard when likes of Liverpool who are probably favourites for 6th spot aren't going to drop that many points to fall out of it. You can't see any side in that top 6 realistically falling short of it because of the talent they have. It’s not like us and likes of Everton are poor, it’s just the top 6 is very strong this year.

 

Magically conjure? Nah, I'd like us to put our collective playing talent to good use and win football matches with positive tactical game plans, play as a team and go out there and play with confidence. To have an owner that invests into the team and to actually strives to get there rather than just be happy with staying in the league and not bothering with any cups.

 

I'd like a manager that isn't f***ing s****. You know, that kind of magic hocus pocus that we support a team for. The basics.

 

Magically conjure ffs. Jesus.

 

Yes and i'm sure every Newcastle fan in the world would love that? So does that mean because our owner isn't splashing the cash every window and hasn't hired a top manager we should dismiss our talent on the pitch because they aren't good enough for top 6? Players are giving it their all for us, showed great character on Saturday to get us those 3 points, the realistic finishing position for them is top 8, I believe in them to succeed it, what is wrong with saying that? It’s just expectations at this present moment.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously.

 

Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be.  His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support.  Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection).  The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment.  There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands.  There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome.

 

 

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground.

[Happy Face]

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously.

 

Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be.  His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support.  Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection).  The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment.  There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands.  There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome.

 

 

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground.

 

Pardew's had that for 10 months man 

 

Longer than Allardyce's entire stint.

[Wullie]

You just talk at constant cross purposes Brett. You're incredibly proud of this team and think they're "very good" but only good enough to finish 8th, absolute maximum?

 

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind. It's average, it's mid-table mediocrity. It's absolutely fuck all to be proud of.

 

[Happy Face]

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind.

 

Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with?

[Disco]

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously.

 

Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be.  His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support.  Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection).  The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment.  There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands.  There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome.

 

 

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground.

 

Pardew's had that for 10 months man 

 

Longer than Allardyce's entire stint.

 

Give over has he.

[Wullie]

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind.

 

Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with?

 

I'd prefer to have the ones we've got being coached correctly before I'd go rushing out to swap anyone.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

But we are left with a rare opportunity in the ownership of Mike Ashley, one where he can sack the manager and not have the manager coming in on the back foot.  Anyone Ashley appointed should benefit from an overwhelmingly positive reaction from the stands.  There are doubtless dozens of young up and coming managers around the world that would be made welcome, or if Ashley showed the ambition to go and get a proven manager with years of experience the entire club would be lifted.  The eternal optimism I have still keeps me hoping Pardew can put a run together.  That optimism, i know in my heart, is about as misplaced as any optimism that Ashley can correct the litany of mistakes above and bring in a man to unite us all on a charge up the table.  The more likely appointment would be Kinnearesque, if not Kinnear himself.

 

...but if Ashley ever had the opportunity to make a popular decision, it could follow the upcoming games against Liverpool, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs.

 

Interesting point that actually, but wouldn't it depend on the new guy starting really well? Otherwise we would just say "he's unproven, unknown cheap appointment, same as usual from Ashley".

[BrettNUFC]

You just talk at constant cross purposes Brett. You're incredibly proud of this team and think they're "very good" but only good enough to finish 8th, absolute maximum?

 

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind.

 

 

At this present moment, it's progression, not just scrapping our away to top 8 though, to look a confidenct side who is going places, i'm realistic enough to think we aren't shifting Liverpool out the top 6 but we just need to keep looking at ourselves and improving ourselves to try and move forward as a club. It's difficult under this regime and it's not being made any easier by the top 6 heavily funding their squads leaving us to fall furthur behind whilst teams around us improve to try and compete with us. If we can look back on this year and think we have given a good account for ourselves and played some good football, i'd be happy.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

You just talk at constant cross purposes Brett. You're incredibly proud of this team and think they're "very good" but only good enough to finish 8th, absolute maximum?

 

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind.

 

 

At this present moment, it's progression, not just scrapping our away to top 8 though, to look a confidenct side who is going places, i'm realistic enough to think we aren't shifting Liverpool out the top 6 but we just need to keep looking at ourselves and improving ourselves to try and move forward as a club. It's difficult under this regime and it's not being made any easier by the top 6 heavily funding their squads leaving us to fall furthur behind whilst teams around us improve to try and compete with us. If we can look back on this year and think we have given a good account for ourselves and played some good football, i'd be happy.

 

Me too basically, but I understand where Wullie is coming from. Obviously it's depressing for top 8 to be the aim of NUFC, and I admire Wullie's high ambitions for the club. I share them in theory, I just know how far off we are from the likes of Spurs/Liverpool in practice now. So in the meantime, I would judge 8th this season (with some good performances along the way) as a decent season probably.

[Happy Face]

Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind.

 

Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with?

 

I'd prefer to have the ones we've got being coached correctly before I'd go rushing out to swap anyone.

 

Whey the ones at the Manchester and Liverpool clubs and Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea aren't going to be getting shite coaching. 

 

I reckon coached properly that our back 4 should be happy with being the 8th best defense in the league. 

 

In terms of goals conceded, they were the 9th best when we finished 5th. 

 

Last year 16th though.  Was Danny Simpson that good? 

[Guest firetotheworks]

If I thought that we were a very good side, I'd be disappointed with finishing 8th.

 

I just realise the top 6 have improved greatly over past couple of year and the task of catching them up is becoming harder. It's a tough league, just got to try and keep pushing on and bring the calibre of players like Remy to the club. Not an easy task but we have improved the talent within our squad over the years but just not as quickly as the top teams can afford to do it.

 

Ignoring the semantics of being a very good side for the moment (fwiw a very good side shouldn't be happy with 8th imo)

 

I don't think those sides have improved in so much as the others have fallen away. The collective gap is still the same imo. The only teams that have clearly improved are Liverpool imo. Arsenal look better, but the rest have dropped a level in quality or remained the same, imo.

 

Spurs have just bought themselves a new squad what should be good enough to challenge for title, they haven't even unleashed Lamela yet. Only the champions have really failed to move forward, the rest have done so. Just because i think we are a good side doesn't mean to say i think we are better than Liverpool and should be taking their 6th place finish. We are behind them in terms of quality. You have people on here saying 8th isn't good enough but then think we will be in a relegation battle.

 

Neither of those two things are mutually exclusive. Just because you won't accept one thing, doesn't mean you'll accept another. You wouldn't take a tenner for your car just because you've been offered a quid. 8th isn't good enough in terms of our current ambition. Absolutely not. Never. It's certainly not good enough for a side that I would ever describe as very good.

 

Well what do you want this side to do? Magically conjure up another level of ability and break the top 6? I'm sure our players will give it their best shot in doing so but unfortunately it's going to be hard when likes of Liverpool who are probably favourites for 6th spot aren't going to drop that many points to fall out of it. You can't see any side in that top 6 realistically falling short of it because of the talent they have. It’s not like us and likes of Everton are poor, it’s just the top 6 is very strong this year.

 

Magically conjure? Nah, I'd like us to put our collective playing talent to good use and win football matches with positive tactical game plans, play as a team and go out there and play with confidence. To have an owner that invests into the team and to actually strives to get there rather than just be happy with staying in the league and not bothering with any cups.

 

I'd like a manager that isn't f***ing s****. You know, that kind of magic hocus pocus that we support a team for. The basics.

 

Magically conjure ffs. Jesus.

 

Yes and i'm sure every Newcastle fan in the world would love that? So does that mean because our owner isn't splashing the cash every window and hasn't hired a top manager we should dismiss our talent on the pitch because they aren't good enough for top 6? Players are giving it their all for us, showed great character on Saturday to get us those 3 points, the realistic finishing position for them is top 8, I believe in them to succeed it, what is wrong with saying that? It’s just expectations at this present moment.

 

I'm either confusing what pride and 'very good' mean, or your top 8 prediction in the face of that is really unambitious, imo.

[Happy Face]

But we are left with a rare opportunity in the ownership of Mike Ashley, one where he can sack the manager and not have the manager coming in on the back foot.  Anyone Ashley appointed should benefit from an overwhelmingly positive reaction from the stands.  There are doubtless dozens of young up and coming managers around the world that would be made welcome, or if Ashley showed the ambition to go and get a proven manager with years of experience the entire club would be lifted.  The eternal optimism I have still keeps me hoping Pardew can put a run together.  That optimism, i know in my heart, is about as misplaced as any optimism that Ashley can correct the litany of mistakes above and bring in a man to unite us all on a charge up the table.  The more likely appointment would be Kinnearesque, if not Kinnear himself.

 

...but if Ashley ever had the opportunity to make a popular decision, it could follow the upcoming games against Liverpool, Sunderland, Man City, Chelsea and Spurs.

 

Interesting point that actually, but wouldn't it depend on the new guy starting really well? Otherwise we would just say "he's unproven, unknown cheap appointment, same as usual from Ashley".

 

Probably the very best the "Pardew Out" folk can hope for though.

[Happy Face]

The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously.

 

Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be.  His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support.  Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection).  The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment.  There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands.  There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome.

 

 

Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground.

 

Pardew's had that for 10 months man 

 

Longer than Allardyce's entire stint.

 

Give over has he.

 

You forgot the Reading Home game in January?  THAT was vitriol.