Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 How in any fevered imagination could that be construed as a defense of Pardew? You don't think he deserves all the abuse he got for that game? Course he did. I gave him plenty myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You just talk at constant cross purposes Brett. You're incredibly proud of this team and think they're "very good" but only good enough to finish 8th, absolute maximum? Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind. At this present moment, it's progression, not just scrapping our away to top 8 though, to look a confidenct side who is going places, i'm realistic enough to think we aren't shifting Liverpool out the top 6 but we just need to keep looking at ourselves and improving ourselves to try and move forward as a club. It's difficult under this regime and it's not being made any easier by the top 6 heavily funding their squads leaving us to fall furthur behind whilst teams around us improve to try and compete with us. If we can look back on this year and think we have given a good account for ourselves and played some good football, i'd be happy. What's this about Liverpool anyway? It's not like they've always sewn up that 6th place finish. I'm not suggesting that it's us that will take it, obviously, but I don't know why you keep mentioning them as if there's a always been a massive gap in the way that there was with the top 4. That's just my opinion, i think this year, i can't see anything other than Man Utd/Man City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs/Liverpool. It hasn't always been the case for that, usually one team that might fail but i like the look of all them sides and they will be extremely hard to catch, if someone fancies Everton to bring in this season, or even us, that's their opinion but i can't see it, i think they have improved a ton fold. I keep trying to type different ways in which to say that you totally baffle me with your mixture of ideas on stringently believed predictions and the seemingly totally unpredictable chaos of match results, but I can't put it in to words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Need a graph to see what's happened here the last few pages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Coming in 8th out of 20 is something that would please you. That just absolutely boggles my mind. Is there a back four among the leagues best 7 clubs you would not swap with? I'd prefer to have the ones we've got being coached correctly before I'd go rushing out to swap anyone. What's the next painfully depressing and wildly incorrect prediction Wullie? Took us 2 games to rise above the 16th position we supposedly wouldn't move from all season. I leave the painfully depressing stuff to the "8th is fantastic" brigade. Brett? He's quoted it like i've said that. Wullie thinks we should be pushing into top 6 but thinks we are in a relegation battle, ambitious pessimistic clown What on Earth are you talking about man? My position has always been that the players are comfortably good enough to compete for European qualification whilst the manager is not close to being Premier League quality and drags them down, fails to get the best out of them and leaves us constantly less than the sum of our parts. How does any of that contradict what I've said? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The chance for a positive change at the club is very intriguing, because it's one that Ashley has rarely given himself the opportunity for previously. Allardyce was not a popular man, but he was nowhere near as unpopular as Pardew seems to be. His sacking was welcome to most, but not being openly demanded by large proportions of the support. Ashley took the edge off when he did sack Big Sam though though when he went after Harry Redknapp (or Redknapp took the edge off, going public on his rejection). The subsequent arrival of Keegan was as close as Ashley has got to exciting the fans with an appointment. There were those of us that saw what he can do at this club last time around and never doubted he was our best chance of building something again, given the support from above which everyone who knows anything about Keegan knows he demands. There were some Newcastle fans that bought into the media fueled view that "the return of the messiah" was a hiding to nothing, that Keegan had been tactically short when he was last in maagement and was doomed to failure because he hadn't been in the game for a few years, it certainly wasn't a universal welcome. Having attended games at the end of Allardyce's tenure he was deeply unpopular. The atmosphere in the 0-3 defeat by Liverpool was truly toxic towards Allardyce. Fans were vitriolic with him during that game and he was barracked from all corners of the ground. Pardew's had that for 10 months man Longer than Allardyce's entire stint. I'm on about in the ground. Not cyberspace. Aye, in the stands. I was there. The Toon Army turned on manager Alan Pardew for the first time this season, taunting him with chants of “you don’t know what you’re doing” http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/newcastle-1-2-reading-alan-pardew-1546825#ixzz2h2VEwoJp You yourself made the point that people were singing 'Pardew's Black and White Army' in a point that you were making about how the support for Pardew is still there in the stadium... Think someone on here mentioned their utter disbelief that the Straberry corner would sing "Pardew is our King" during the Hull game. So a vocal contingent in the stadium are still supportive. There was none of that under Allardyce. I was at the Stoke cup game before Allardyce got the sack and he was applauded off the field. There are pockets of staunch support no matter what. Their unpopularity is probably about even tbf, it's just been allowed to go on much longer under Pardew so there's been more embarrassing home defeats that have weakened his position and longer for his poll numbers to go down. The difference then was that our billionaire owner hadn't made any appointments. Many were excited to see someone competent let loose with tens of millions Our optimism has been beaten down now, so we mutely accept the least awful option we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 To clarify, the point I was making is that Allardyce got far more abuse than Pardew. On a completely different scale, imo. From where I was sat last season, I was the only one I could hear slagging Pardew off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 To clarify, the point I was making is that Allardyce got far more abuse than Pardew. On a completely different scale, imo. From where I was sat last season, I was the only one I could hear slagging Pardew off. Might have been. I'm afraid i was very .... very drunk http://www.lily.fi/sites/lily/files/user/3591/2012/04/4983426_std.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're shit and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 To clarify, the point I was making is that Allardyce got far more abuse than Pardew. On a completely different scale, imo. From where I was sat last season, I was the only one I could hear slagging Pardew off. Pardew isn't really unpopular at St James. I don't think anyone really rates him, just most can't be bothered either way, similar to those who defend him on this thread. It's the "We'll only get someone worse" syndrome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Need a graph to see what's happened here the last few pages. http://i43.tinypic.com/4iepaf.jpg I've had a look at our stats up to Cardiff and found the most positive one, just for you. It's our 5 game points-per-game average going back to the start of last season. We've hit a 2 point average for the first time in all that time. It's not the winning it's the playing nice that counts though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 can't we lock this thread until the next game or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're shit and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 can't we lock this thread until the next game or something? What, and spoil Inochi's fun? It was dozing along quite nicely until he poked it in the arse with a pointy stick, the scamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Should really label your axes, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Should really label your axes, man. Agree. Imagine you get your broadaxe confused with your felling axe? You'd never live it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Axing for trouble if you don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Should really label your axes, man. It's all bollocks cos I wasn't in work after the Everton game so I missed that defeat off of my spreadsheet. Think it's time to hang up my t distribution table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're shit and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're shit and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Arguing over Pardew is one thing. I'm not daft enough to get into the debate of whether we should "accomodate" Ben Arfa rather than actually ask him to try and win the ball back when we're in the shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Arguing over Pardew is one thing. I'm not daft enough to get into the debate of whether we should "accomodate" Ben Arfa rather than actually ask him to try and win the ball back when we're in the s***. I have a feeling that Pardew is less unhappy about that and more that he doesn't look to bring others into the game as much as he should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manosdepiedra Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Pardew's limited to say the least, but is he completely responsible for the players mentally withdrawing and physically shrinking the second Cardiff scored? They lost heart. Their heads went down. Not as much as on other occasions (Liverpool at home last sesson springs to mind) but they still did. Then they rallied a bit and we got a good result, and overall it was a good performance. We need 2 things for your vision to be realised; they need to stop feeling sorry for themsleves and they need a couple of leaders in the Nolan/Barton mould. I agree the team has bags of talent, but it doesnt have a lot of heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Pardew's limited to say the least, but is he completely responsible for the players mentally withdrawing and physically shrinking the second Cardiff scored? They lost heart. Their heads went down. Not as much as on other occasions (Liverpool at home last sesson springs to mind) but they still did. Then they rallied a bit and we got a good result, and overall it was a good performance. We need 2 things for your vision to be realised; they need to stop feeling sorry for themsleves and they need a couple of leaders in the Nolan/Barton mould. I agree the team has bags of talent, but it doesnt have a lot of heart. Yes, he is. If it was a one-off I would agree, but this is no blip, it's the way that we do things. Whether Pardew is to blame for that in the first place is another matter(although I'd be surprised if they all had that as part of their personalities), but he is to blame for allowing it to continue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Pardew's limited to say the least, but is he completely responsible for the players mentally withdrawing and physically shrinking the second Cardiff scored? They lost heart. Their heads went down. Not as much as on other occasions (Liverpool at home last sesson springs to mind) but they still did. Then they rallied a bit and we got a good result, and overall it was a good performance. We need 2 things for your vision to be realised; they need to stop feeling sorry for themsleves and they need a couple of leaders in the Nolan/Barton mould. I agree the team has bags of talent, but it doesnt have a lot of heart. Agree with a lot of that, like. It was good to see Cabaye letting his mouth go on Saturday, in that little period after their goal where we looked a certainty to concede another. We calmed down a touch, not long after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Pardew's limited to say the least, but is he completely responsible for the players mentally withdrawing and physically shrinking the second Cardiff scored? They lost heart. Their heads went down. Not as much as on other occasions (Liverpool at home last sesson springs to mind) but they still did. Then they rallied a bit and we got a good result, and overall it was a good performance. We need 2 things for your vision to be realised; they need to stop feeling sorry for themsleves and they need a couple of leaders in the Nolan/Barton mould. I agree the team has bags of talent, but it doesnt have a lot of heart. I don't get the feeling that the players fear for their place enough under Pardew. We've seen Tiote, Cabaye and Cisse getting picked regardless of how much work they put in previously. Players know they can take the piss and get away with it to some extent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The Wigan game before the Stoke cup tie, the away fans booed Allardyce for touching the ball. They also chanted we're s*** and we're sick of it. The Liverpool game had the home fans applauding Liverpool fan's for chanting Big Sam for England, before joining in themselves. It's an obtuse point but at times the board is dogged by posters who post in nothing but absolutist prose. Even if you type like you're right all the time, you're not. i apologise You're spot on. just my perception. Probably clouded by Wullie's insistence that things have never been this bad in 15 years It's much easier to cope with the manager if the players are bollocks. Having to be in a position where players with real talent and pedigree look absolute toss and we can't accommodate Hatem Ben Arfa because he doesn't graft enough is unbelievably depressing. I've never been more frustrated as a Newcastle fan because I can see how close it is, that doesn't necessarily mean things are at their worst. Pardew's limited to say the least, but is he completely responsible for the players mentally withdrawing and physically shrinking the second Cardiff scored? They lost heart. Their heads went down. Not as much as on other occasions (Liverpool at home last sesson springs to mind) but they still did. Then they rallied a bit and we got a good result, and overall it was a good performance. We need 2 things for your vision to be realised; they need to stop feeling sorry for themsleves and they need a couple of leaders in the Nolan/Barton mould. I agree the team has bags of talent, but it doesnt have a lot of heart. I don't get the feeling that the players fear for their place enough under Pardew. We've seen Tiote, Cabaye and Cisse getting picked regardless of how much work they put in previously. Players know they can take the piss and get away with it to some extent. Agree with that. Except of course, your name is Hatem Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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