ATB Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 if you know anything abouy psychology or sport psychology you just cant say that Pardew has nothing to do about it. and motivation isnt just about to tell someone to give it all. its more complex then that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Where was I excusing it? I'm just telling you how it is. If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? i'll hold my hands up if i misread this then because it sounds very much to me like you're excusing the players and manager from being arsed because the board are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The attitude comes from the top. Simple as. Again though - it's just reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The attitude comes from the top. Simple as. Again though - it's just reality. so in fact then you are on a personal level excusing pardew from doing his job to the best of his ability because ashley tells him cups are not a priority? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Do you just want something to be angry at? There's a million and one basic work place analogies that could be used in this instance i.e project 1 carries incentive, project 2 you're told not to bother with but I really can't be arsed with you. I feel you're wishing to paint me in a bad light Mojo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It pervades a lot of clubs and competitions now, the PL is everything to most clubs. The idea that every club gives a 100% to win every competition is just idealism and no longer corresponds to reality. Sad but true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Do you just want something to be angry at? There's a million and one basic work place analogies that could be used in this instance i.e project 1 carries incentive, project 2 you're told not to bother with but I really can't be arsed with you. I feel you're wishing to paint me in a bad light Mojo. i'm really not, i'm just bemused at how ok you are with pardew being so pliant what grinds my gears as much as anything is he's remembered as a player for one thing as far as i know, scoring in the semi of the FA cup, i wonder if he looks back on that game as time he could have spent shopping with the wife instead, or just having a rest so palace could make sure they finished in a better spot that year? i don't care about ashley or what he says to pardew, i care about how little integrity this man has that he bends so easily and ultimately denies his own players the chance of glory he had himself once upon a time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't really believe any manager, including Pardew of course, is 'OK' with going out of the cups early. They're just forced to operate in this modern football environment where everything is focussed on the PL and everything else has become progressively devalued. Pardew might want to win a cup as bad as anything, but when it comes down to matchday he will still think "I can beat so-and-so team even if I save a few of the big lads for the next league game". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't really believe any manager, including Pardew of course, is 'OK' with going out of the cups early. They're just forced to operate in this modern football environment where everything is focussed on the PL and everything else has become progressively devalued. Pardew might want to win a cup as bad as anything, but when it comes down to matchday he will still think "I can beat so-and-so team even if I save a few of the big lads for the next league game". didn't seem to martinez or poyet tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't really believe any manager, including Pardew of course, is 'OK' with going out of the cups early. They're just forced to operate in this modern football environment where everything is focussed on the PL and everything else has become progressively devalued. Pardew might want to win a cup as bad as anything, but when it comes down to matchday he will still think "I can beat so-and-so team even if I save a few of the big lads for the next league game". didn't seem to martinez or poyet tbh Do you disagree with the wider point though? Or can you just think of a couple of counter examples? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It pervades a lot of clubs and competitions now, the PL is everything to most clubs. The idea that every club gives a 100% to win every competition is just idealism and no longer corresponds to reality. Sad but true. And still other clubs manage to get to quarter finals, semi finals, finals and even win cups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 and how many of those clubs boards come out and tell them not to bother? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Dunno mate, do you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 This season's FA Cup was by far the worst betrayal so far in his tenure. He'd got us in a position where safety is virtually assured by January with a huge gap to 10th place and was still too fearful to put the real team out at home to Cardiff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Nah but I imagine it's in the region of zero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It pervades a lot of clubs and competitions now, the PL is everything to most clubs. The idea that every club gives a 100% to win every competition is just idealism and no longer corresponds to reality. Sad but true. And still other clubs manage to get to quarter finals, semi finals, finals and even win cups. Sure, someone has to win the cup. We might win one sometime. I'm sure if we made some decent progress in the FA Cup we would start playing stronger sides. That doesn't mean the point I made isn't correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Nah but I imagine it's in the region of zero. So you and Ian basically disagree then, sort it out between yourselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It pervades a lot of clubs and competitions now, the PL is everything to most clubs. The idea that every club gives a 100% to win every competition is just idealism and no longer corresponds to reality. Sad but true. And still other clubs manage to get to quarter finals, semi finals, finals and even win cups. Sure, someone has to win the cup. We might win one sometime. I'm sure if we made some decent progress in the FA Cup we would start playing stronger sides. That doesn't mean the point I made isn't correct. We wouldn't have even had to have given 100% to get further in the cups the last few seasons, nowhere near. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't really believe any manager, including Pardew of course, is 'OK' with going out of the cups early. They're just forced to operate in this modern football environment where everything is focussed on the PL and everything else has become progressively devalued. Pardew might want to win a cup as bad as anything, but when it comes down to matchday he will still think "I can beat so-and-so team even if I save a few of the big lads for the next league game". didn't seem to martinez or poyet tbh Do you disagree with the wider point though? Or can you just think of a couple of counter examples? i agree with the wider point about the value of the PL yes, however i'm struggling to think of examples of teams in our position this season with no threat of relegation and good team who just don't give a fuck...perhaps you can help me out with that? it's easier to think of examples of teams threatened with relegation who try their hearts out to win cup games tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Ideally, Sunderland reaching a final should put more pressure on the club to do better but I don't suppose they will care. If Sunderland do get relegated then they have the excuse they need as to why cups are a bad idea. Pardew must be loving Swansea struggling this year as he will see that as vindication of all his excuses last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pardew must be loving Swansea struggling this year as he will see that as vindication of all his excuses last year. Could mean the point has some truth to it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pardew must be loving Swansea struggling this year as he will see that as vindication of all his excuses last year. Could mean the point has some truth to it as well. They're actually struggling because of injuries. They're not Europe's #1 long ball team and playing Shola at RW and starting Jonas every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pardew must be loving Swansea struggling this year as he will see that as vindication of all his excuses last year. Could mean the point has some truth to it as well. They're actually struggling because of injuries. They're not Europe's #1 long ball team and playing Shola at RW and starting Jonas every game. aye, was gonna say the same still, be very interesting to see some analysis of the EL vs. league position and such (in more countries than just the PL) - i suppose by definition the teams in it are likely to have smaller squads and less quality than their CL counterparts for the most part Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Nobody ever said the EL was the only reason for our problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pardew must be loving Swansea struggling this year as he will see that as vindication of all his excuses last year. Could mean the point has some truth to it as well. They're actually struggling because of injuries. They're not Europe's #1 long ball team and playing Shola at RW and starting Jonas every game. I was about to say that. Of course you will get more tired, but seeing as we had no progress in domestic cups at all. We had just the League and Europa to play. And as you pointed out the Europa League is no excuse for Hoofball, pathetic tactics against teams like Reading. Bizarre team selections. It's been done to death on here tbh but if anyone really does think the reason all that happened was because of fatigue. They're off the fucking rockers. Also where were Swansea expected to finish, i think around 12th with the squad they have, and i bet that's exactly where they end up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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