Kanj Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mate has just said this regarding Pardew: "Problem is though, without the board getting involved in first team affairs, pardew is a good manager and gets results. As soon as someone gets involved, ie the removal of cabaye, pardew and the players buckle under the pressure. Players in the team excel when the whole team excels. And the negative effect is that pardew and the players fail when the going gets tough. The players are heartless, pardew doesnt know what to do and it becomes a disaster" Interested to hear what you lot think of that. I personally feel that the sign of a good manager is being able to motivate and organise his team when the chips are down, not just when we are going through a good patch and players are in form, if he can't do both then how can he be a good manager? Sign of a poor manager if he's only good when the going is good. Pardew has 0 ability to turn things around when it gets tough. Its a never ending downward spiral. How did we do well this year? He had a fully fit squad playing every week and players in top form saving him with a bit of magic here and there. He's a 1 trick pony, and managers need to be dynamic and able to change things, as quickly as 1 match. If we go down 1-0, or have an injury or something = we lose. Its awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magorific Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Lee ------> Cabaye --> Speed for me. We've spent fortunes on defenders and strikers over the years yet we haven't spent big on CM really. I think Viana was actually our biggest buy in that area, yet its arguably the most critical area of the pitch/part of the team. Its amazing to think back how Cabaye only cost 3.5m or something. He is easily the £20m + player we sold him for, if not more. Top player for us and for my money, second only to Lee in all the time I've followed this club. In our recent-ish history our defence has been blamed a lot when the midfield was the actual problem. Agreed, and indeed up front. Too often we've had an unbalanced midfield and attack. We let in 4 goals last night but they walked through our midfield time and time again. Not even the best defenders in the world will keep the door shut when that's happening, especially as often as it happens with us. Alarmingly, the manager actually sets us up to contain and to defend first yet we have been on the end of some really embarrassing scores, home and away. To lose 4-0 in isolation isn't earth shattering, it can happen even to the very best but to repeatedly succumb to big scorelines is evidence of some huge and major flaws in the way we approach games, how we are tactically and the selection of the players. As soon as I saw how we both lined up last night I just knew, if they scored first, we were done for and would lose by 2 or more goals. The manager, as much as you excuse him, is losing us games by these margins with his tactics, his team lineups, his subs and his whole ethos of how we should or should not play. We are a defeated team before we take to the pitch far too often to ever become anything more than what we are at current. As for Pardew himself, he needs everything to go his way for us to win games and even then we often scrape wins and perform abjectly. For us to win games under Pardew he needs his best players on the pitch, for the refereeing decisions to mainly go our way and for the individuals in our team to do their bit. Cabaye and Remy have been those individuals, the 2 players who have scored the goals and grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck. A decent manager can manage around their losses, but Pardew has no answer. Well he does, but its always the wrong one. We lose Cabaye and he reverts to hoof-ball. One player?! Thankfully, simply from a spectator perspective, I dont think he will be our manager come kick-off next season. I think Ashley has had enough and I think he has too. From what I gather, he threw his name into the hat for the Palace job but they wouldn't pay the kind of compo we would demand and while he's not wanting the sack, he would be delighted to be offered another top-flight job to get him out of his current role here where his hands are tied when it comes to purchases and sales. Keep your eyes peeled on WHU next season as Big Sam will be sacked once the season is over, whether they stay up or not and Pardew is still highly rated there. I can see that one happening. Not ITK or anything btw, just second guessing... Great post, but I disagree re the prospect of Pardew going back to West Ham. The fans don't remember him kindly and the West Ham mafia in the press are generally none too keen. Karren Brady (already a Sun columnist) is likely to be even more sensitive to the opinion of the press right now.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Pardews problem is motivation and installing belief in the players. Yes we are missing important players that any manager would struggle with but your success as a manager is down to how you handle the second tier of your squad, which he has no clue how too. We should still have enough there to compete, but you can see how negative he and the squad become when we get a few injuries or suspensions. He has to go on that basis for me. The story lines coming out of the club are more convoluted than Lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana was mint IMO Viana will go down as a classic what if/what could have been type of player for me. As far as talent and ability goes he was a lovely footballer and it showed how far eahd of the game, even at his age, Sir Bobby was tactically, that he had earmarked Viana as Speed's replacement, despite them both being totally different types of player. Sir Bobby eventually wanted a deep lying playmaker in there, someone a bit like Pirlo, to pull the strings, to spread play to the likes of Dyer and Jenas was going to be our box to box man if you like. It appears mentally though, he was as weak as they come, missed home massively and was too critical of his own performances/game. A shame because in the under 21 Euros piro to buying him, he stood out head and shoulders as the best player and he really did have some wonderful vision, technique and skill. Mind, he was played around a bit by Bobby positionally and never really settled. His career after us, however, suggest in reality, he was just another technically talented but totally average footballer the likes of Portugal produce for fun. I rated him mind and it says a lot about Gary Speed when Viana likened him to a father and uncle during his spell here. Speed would have made a top manager Another cracking post in succession HTT. Agree 100%. The idea of him eventually being the Pirlo, if you will, to Dyer and Jenas was potentially an outstanding vision. Also, 100% - When Speedo was getting into management, I was hoping he would one day take over the helm here and go on to be an all-time great. Aye, Speed had something extra as a manager/coach like and I'm not saying that to be kind because he is now no longer with us sadly. Sir Bobby said of all his former players, he was he most likely to succeed as a manager because he got it, he understood the game, players but just as importantly people. We will never know though Fucking loved Speed as a player. He got a bit of stick here and then but I think the vast majority of Toon fans recognised how key he was for us and how consistent he was, without being brilliant or amazing. Shearer was the captain, but we all knew who the real leader was, even Big Al himself acknowledged that. I remember when we signed him from Everton, back then I thought we were getting one of the best CM's in the league, easily. Back to Viana and Sir Bobby, it was clear to me that he wanted to move away from the 4-4-2 wingers and target man type play and wanted us to be more continental. I think he was vying for a 4-3-3- or 4-1-3-2 system. It took balls to try and phase out Shearer. I was gutted Viana didn't work because he's my kind of player and today, sadly, I think he would work out and really well too. Sir Bobby, a bit ahead of the time at the time? I think Fergie was thinking along the same lines with Veron who ddn't quite work out, but probably would today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana would've blossomed into a fine PL midfielder eventually. 20-year-old Viana would be our best CM by a mile if he was here now, by the way. Sad, but true. Spot on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana's PL debut. I've still a massive soft spot for Viana. Loved him as a player man....that Feyenoord goal. (hell those uniforms with the white shorts and socks we'd wear when things clashed)...absolutely loved that player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Pardew, he's shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana's PL debut. I've still a massive soft spot for Viana. Loved him as a player man....that Feyenoord goal. (hell those uniforms with the white shorts and socks we'd wear when things clashed)...absolutely loved that player. I don't know why but the thought of someone describing strips as 'uniforms' cracks me up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Sorry - the American in me came out of no where. I post all the time in the kit thread and never make that mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Viana love He must have been one of the slowest midfielders I've ever seen in a black and white. Put a rocket up his arse he would probably still get out ran by a granny. Technically very gifted. Mentally had the fortitude of an empty glass vase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Lee ------> Cabaye --> Speed for me. We've spent fortunes on defenders and strikers over the years yet we haven't spent big on CM really. I think Viana was actually our biggest buy in that area, yet its arguably the most critical area of the pitch/part of the team. Its amazing to think back how Cabaye only cost 3.5m or something. He is easily the £20m + player we sold him for, if not more. Top player for us and for my money, second only to Lee in all the time I've followed this club. In our recent-ish history our defence has been blamed a lot when the midfield was the actual problem. Agreed, and indeed up front. Too often we've had an unbalanced midfield and attack. We let in 4 goals last night but they walked through our midfield time and time again. Not even the best defenders in the world will keep the door shut when that's happening, especially as often as it happens with us. Alarmingly, the manager actually sets us up to contain and to defend first yet we have been on the end of some really embarrassing scores, home and away. To lose 4-0 in isolation isn't earth shattering, it can happen even to the very best but to repeatedly succumb to big scorelines is evidence of some huge and major flaws in the way we approach games, how we are tactically and the selection of the players. As soon as I saw how we both lined up last night I just knew, if they scored first, we were done for and would lose by 2 or more goals. The manager, as much as you excuse him, is losing us games by these margins with his tactics, his team lineups, his subs and his whole ethos of how we should or should not play. We are a defeated team before we take to the pitch far too often to ever become anything more than what we are at current. As for Pardew himself, he needs everything to go his way for us to win games and even then we often scrape wins and perform abjectly. For us to win games under Pardew he needs his best players on the pitch, for the refereeing decisions to mainly go our way and for the individuals in our team to do their bit. Cabaye and Remy have been those individuals, the 2 players who have scored the goals and grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck. A decent manager can manage around their losses, but Pardew has no answer. Well he does, but its always the wrong one. We lose Cabaye and he reverts to hoof-ball. One player?! Thankfully, simply from a spectator perspective, I dont think he will be our manager come kick-off next season. I think Ashley has had enough and I think he has too. From what I gather, he threw his name into the hat for the Palace job but they wouldn't pay the kind of compo we would demand and while he's not wanting the sack, he would be delighted to be offered another top-flight job to get him out of his current role here where his hands are tied when it comes to purchases and sales. Keep your eyes peeled on WHU next season as Big Sam will be sacked once the season is over, whether they stay up or not and Pardew is still highly rated there. I can see that one happening. Not ITK or anything btw, just second guessing... Great post, but I disagree re the prospect of Pardew going back to West Ham. The fans don't remember him kindly and the West Ham mafia in the press are generally none too keen. Karren Brady (already a Sun columnist) is likely to be even more sensitive to the opinion of the press right now.... I know a few Hammers' fans and they would welcome him back with open arms after Big Sam, and reckon he was a bit hard done by and was building something decent. Mind these same people think he's doing a great job here and that I'm an idiot for wanting him out... The sad thing about Pardew is that he is a very good manager of people, he can motivate and get people going. He has the gift of the gab if you like and even now, I'm 100% certain the players respect him, look up to him, and are trying their best for him. I don't want to name drop but I play footy with Olivier Bernard now and then and he says the French lads love Pardew, the city, club etc. That was before the sale of Cabaye mind... I hate the c*** like, but some of that is down to how much of a patsy he is or has made himself become. Show some balls man. You have nowt to lose and even if you were peddled, you will live off the back of that LMA of the year award for a long long time. A year or so back he was being talked about as a future England manager and I know some Spurs fans who would take him/or would have after AVB's sacking, likewise WHU fans. Finishing 5th with us and working with the Ashley NUFC constraints has actually strengthened his hand. He could easily get a cushy job for himself in the PL. And privately, I genuinely believe that's what he's hoping for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Mate has just said this regarding Pardew: "Problem is though, without the board getting involved in first team affairs, pardew is a good manager and gets results. As soon as someone gets involved, ie the removal of cabaye, pardew and the players buckle under the pressure. Players in the team excel when the whole team excels. And the negative effect is that pardew and the players fail when the going gets tough. The players are heartless, pardew doesnt know what to do and it becomes a disaster" Interested to hear what you lot think of that. I personally feel that the sign of a good manager is being able to motivate and organise his team when the chips are down, not just when we are going through a good patch and players are in form, if he can't do both then how can he be a good manager? Sign of a poor manager if he's only good when the going is good. Pardew has 0 ability to turn things around when it gets tough. Its a never ending downward spiral. How did we do well this year? He had a fully fit squad playing every week and players in top form saving him with a bit of magic here and there. He's a 1 trick pony, and managers need to be dynamic and able to change things, as quickly as 1 match. If we go down 1-0, or have an injury or something = we lose. Its awful. I'm pretty sure there's hundreds of clubs/managers where an owner has went above the manager and sold a player for the coin. It's hardly like this is unique like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana would've blossomed into a fine PL midfielder eventually. 20-year-old Viana would be our best CM by a mile if he was here now, by the way. Sad, but true. Yeah definitely. Lovely left foot EDIT: Didnt SBR try to make him a left winger? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I remember going to a friendly between Sweden and Portugal i Gothenburg when Viana played with Figo and Rui Costa! He was a class above in that game. Everyone around me wondered who this young player was as he impressed greatly! And of course, his goal against Feyenoord as well. One of those truly amazing talents that it quite never worked out for He was my favourite player back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana would've blossomed into a fine PL midfielder eventually. 20-year-old Viana would be our best CM by a mile if he was here now, by the way. Sad, but true. Yeah definitely. Lovely left foot EDIT: Didnt SBR try to make him a left winger? Yes because he was a liability in the centre. A bit like HBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana would've blossomed into a fine PL midfielder eventually. 20-year-old Viana would be our best CM by a mile if he was here now, by the way. Sad, but true. Yeah definitely. Lovely left foot EDIT: Didnt SBR try to make him a left winger? Yes then stopped after man utd beat us at home 6-2. Robert went off and viana replaced him on the left. Viana allowed o'shea to bomb forward at every chance. I think robson was sick of him after that. I think he was a bit soft at tge time but like someone else said he may suit the game now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Underpants Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Just wanted to pop in quickly with a FUCK OFF PARDEW YOU MASSIVE CUNTFACE! FUCK OFF WITH YOUR NEGATIVE SETUPS AND AWFUL MANMANAGEMENT SKILLS. Just go so I can go back to enjoying saturdays and sundays again. Right now im just dreading the next game. My love for the game and Newcastle in particular is almost gone. Just wanted to get that of my chest. Again. Now carry on. Viana Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Course we're not, man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Just to confirm the incredible nature of the media view out there at the moment. On the weekend football review on Talksport this afternoon, with guest journo Patrick Barclay, the conclusion was that Pardew (doing a great job) would be justified in moving on because of the lack of ambition being shown by the club! Think I've heard everything now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Honestly, king of the NPWs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zippity Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The sad thing about Pardew is that he can motivate and get people going. He can't, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 okay, will not post. but I'd suggest people check it out. Mint video tbh Just tell people what to search for on YT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Viana would've blossomed into a fine PL midfielder eventually. 20-year-old Viana would be our best CM by a mile if he was here now, by the way. Sad, but true. Yeah definitely. Lovely left foot EDIT: Didnt SBR try to make him a left winger? Bobby played with wingers. He wanted two players who could primarily support the attack and secondarily win the ball in the middle. Can't say I disagree with that philosophy at all, tbh. He was never going to dislodge Dyer and Speed, but he would've found his feet in the middle eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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