Ched Evans - Not Guilty

[bealios]

He's coming here isn't he.

[Teasy]

Apparently one of the board members has been told where his daughter works and that she'll be raped if they continue.

 

Just heard that. Other staff members at Oldham have been threatened. It's getting quite difficult to work out who's the baddie in all of this.

 

Aye I'm sure someone who's so fundamentally against rape would then go out and rape someone

[brummie]

The fact he's a convicted rapist is only part of the problem with Evans. it is also his behaviour since (the references to "my infidelity", the girlfriend's rich family bankrolling him, and offering to cover any losses as a result of employing him, the people hanging around him in his retinue), he really has created a situation where it is harder for him to get back into the game, not easier.

Kinda see what you mean brummie. However if It was me and I was convinced and beleived I was innocent then I sure as hell wouldn't be showing remorse, just to appease the masses either.

The whole thing from both sides seems distasteful in the extreme and I agree the 'aggressive' camapign and retinue around him harm his case imo.

I would however be stating that rape is abhorent and that I don't just view women as sex objects etc. I think he's been badly advised on this aspect.

Looking at the original case it does seem an odd one, and not a cut and dried solid case at all..imo.

Lad shoud try and clear his name legally and if that happens then re start.

 

The rape threat against Oldham staff etc can't be real. that is some sick shit.

 

How is it distasteful from both sides, though?

 

I mean, what is the other side you're referring to?

[brummie]

He's coming here isn't he.

 

As manager.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wullie]

Oldham have received death threats - SSN. Can't imagine anyone going for him - just not worth the hassle.

 

The fuck? So murder is now seen as morally more acceptable than rape.

 

In the common consciousness I think that actually is the case tbh.

[George Bailey]

The fact he's a convicted rapist is only part of the problem with Evans. it is also his behaviour since (the references to "my infidelity", the girlfriend's rich family bankrolling him, and offering to cover any losses as a result of employing him, the people hanging around him in his retinue), he really has created a situation where it is harder for him to get back into the game, not easier.

Kinda see what you mean brummie. However if It was me and I was convinced and beleived I was innocent then I sure as hell wouldn't be showing remorse, just to appease the masses either.

The whole thing from both sides seems distasteful in the extreme and I agree the 'aggressive' camapign and retinue around him harm his case imo.

I would however be stating that rape is abhorent and that I don't just view women as sex objects etc. I think he's been badly advised on this aspect.

Looking at the original case it does seem an odd one, and not a cut and dried solid case at all..imo.

Lad shoud try and clear his name legally and if that happens then re start.

 

The rape threat against Oldham staff etc can't be real. that is some sick s***.

 

How is it distasteful from both sides, though?

 

I mean, what is the other side you're referring to?

The persecution of him via the new judge and jury of the west...social media etc. The usual suspects bandwagon jumping and banging thier drums.

All very distasteful imo.

 

I think he should have been unequivocal in his condemnation of rape and sexual violence, stated he was seeking an appeal (I wasn't aware one had been thrown out) and try and clear his name. If he beleives and maintains innocence.

 

trying to come back to a 'high profile' job was always gonna be idfficult for him, time served or not. Due to the public frenzy and clamour, how ever well meaning or contrived and whipped up.

Whole thing is tawdry.

 

[worthy]

Tbf, a good PR move to get out of it clean would be to say you recieved threats. Now they might as well be legit since there are nutters out there who probably feel like the would need to prove how bad rape is by harming someone near the top bosses. But at the same time, I feel that people like that could not care less about Oldham or who the fuck ever that employs Evans. Either way, he is boned now. No one will go near his PR mess. Sucks to be you, shouldn't have been a cockhead.

[Smal]

I don't think it's possible to defend his actions since coming out of prison, tbh. The girl he raped has had to change her identity and move 5 times now thanks to his defenders tracking her down and he's done nothing to stop that.

[brummie]

I find it hard to see it as persecution - the only reason he's getting any coverage in the media, old or new, is that he's either trying to get back into football, or his retinue are spending money on stating his case.

 

He's a convicted rapist. Pointing this out isn't persecution, it is a statement of fact.

 

I agree he should have been unequivocal, but he hasn't, he's been the exact opposite, and that is a large part of the problem.

[mrmojorisin75]

Eh? Why shouldn't people be allowed to have petitions against it?

 

they are allowed, but they're clearly massively open to abuse and keeping evans out of football has become a thing in itself now imho - if it was a poll of genuine supporters who were always knocking him back then aye fine but it's clearly not

 

assuming those 4k/20k oldham petition numbers are correct it's just nonsense

 

I see your point here but I think you need to look at the repercussions of him getting back into football. Parents, regardless of whether they like football or not, will want to sign the petition if they have kids who like football.

 

so it's think of the children now?

 

i'll not agree he should be blocked from playing if clubs want him to play for them, which they obviously do

 

He isn't blocked from returning to football, though.

 

That's a pretty important point.

 

Clubs are not signing him because the fans or sponsors - or both - do not want to see their club associated with someone like him. That's entirely understandable, but it is not the same thing as being "blocked" from playing, which implies some form of legal restriction.

 

yes not legally blocked obviously, he's being effectively blocked due to the ongoing campaign against him whenever anyone goes near him

 

as for the bolded part i don't believe for a second any of the sponsors are reacting on moral grounds due to 'association with' ched fucking evans like, they're reacting because they feel they have to when 20,000 mouth breathers sign an online petition through fear of loss of potential money

 

same for the clubs, this is not a moral issue anymore it's basically a question of whether a club will call the bluff of online petitions etc. and sponsors bending over for them

 

as for the "he's been found guilty that's it" argument i don't know where to start, so i'm not going to

[brummie]

as for the "he's been found guilty that's it" argument i don't know where to start, so i'm not going to

 

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of. Until evidence surfaces to change that, he is going to remain one. It is retinue's refusal to stop acting like this is not true which has made the situation worse.

 

That is why he is struggling to get back into football, because people don't really want to be associating with the likes of Ched Evans.

 

How can a football club do things like community activism, do good work outside the actual football (and a lot of them do) if people can point at them and say "look at the sort of person you employ"?

[mozy]

Oldham have received death threats - SSN. Can't imagine anyone going for him - just not worth the hassle.

 

The fuck? So murder is now seen as morally more acceptable than rape.

 

In the common consciousness I think that actually is the case tbh.

 

Definitely.

 

I think it all depends on context, personally. This case is really not comparable to (or worse than) murder.

[mrmojorisin75]

as for the "he's been found guilty that's it" argument i don't know where to start, so i'm not going to

 

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of. Until evidence surfaces to change that, he is going to remain one. It is retinue's refusal to stop acting like this is not true which has made the situation worse.

 

That is why he is struggling to get back into football, because people don't really want to be associating with the likes of Ched Evans.

 

How can a football club do things like community activism, do good work outside the actual football (and a lot of them do) if people can point at them and say "look at the sort of person you employ"?

 

i'm not getting into it, it's been done before so there's no point

[Dave]

Brummie.

 

Just copying me mind.

[mrmojorisin75]

i assume the review referred to here has not been knocked back yet and is still pending?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29679563

[Skeletor]

Death threats? Oldham sponsored by Mike Ashley's Sports Direct?

 

width=400http://mediaserver.dwpub.com/news/29645/16+April+Keith+Bishop.jpg[/img]

 

Keith Bishop killed Tupac.

[Hanshithispantz]

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of.

 

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area.

[mozy]

 

Oldham have received death threats - SSN. Can't imagine anyone going for him - just not worth the hassle.

 

The fuck? So murder is now seen as morally more acceptable than rape.

 

In the common consciousness I think that actually is the case tbh.

 

Definitely.

 

I think it all depends on context, personally. This case is really not comparable to (or worse than) murder.

 

I wasn't in court so I don't know. We didn't get all the evidence obvs. I'm talking generally.

 

In general terms I might agree with you. But this is off topic anyway.

[brummie]

i assume the review referred to here has not been knocked back yet and is still pending?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29679563

 

It hasn't finished yet, no. Although I'm not really sure what difference it makes, given that we don't know what it'll say.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of.

 

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area.

 

It's not mental. At some point you have to have a bottom line in order to make a decision about what action to take. His conviction was 'safe' as evidenced by the Court of Appeal Judgment.

 

As a point of public principle you have to recognise the findings of a Jury of lay people.

[brummie]

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of.

 

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area.

 

There isn't a massive grey area, though, that is the point. Any lack of clarity in this is caused mostly by Evans's actions and those of his bankrollers since he came out of prison.

 

That's precisely what I meant when I referred to the way he has acted.

 

Evans was found guilty of rape by a jury. By law, a conviction has to be "beyond all reasonable doubt". Any grey area added to that exists purely because of Evans and his team.

[Hanshithispantz]

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of.

 

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area.

 

It's not mental. At some point you have to have a bottom line in order to make a decision about what action to take. His conviction was 'safe' as evidenced by the Court of Appeal Judgment.

 

As a point of public principle you have to recognise the findings of a Jury of lay people.

I think it is mental though, it's effectively giving yourself no leeway in terms of how you feel about a conviction. He was found guilty, that must mean he is guilty.

 

Nah, he was found guilty, but I cannot be 100% sure he was and I'm not going to treat it with 100% certainty he was.

[mozy]

I just find it strange how this case specifically has garnered so much public attention.

 

Especially when utterly terrible human beings such as Marlon King and Nile Ranger have been able to secure multiple contracts without so much as a muttering from the back pages from The Mirror. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people harping on about Evans haven't even heard of these 2. It just strikes me as a bit of a witchunt.

[mrmojorisin75]

i assume the review referred to here has not been knocked back yet and is still pending?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29679563

 

It hasn't finished yet, no. Although I'm not really sure what difference it makes, given that we don't know what it'll say.

 

no difference to this, i was just wondering

[Hanshithispantz]

But that's the important point. He's a convicted rapist. End of.

 

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area.

 

There isn't a massive grey area, though, that is the point. Any lack of clarity in this is caused mostly by Evans's actions and those of his bankrollers since he came out of prison.

 

That's precisely what I meant when I referred to the way he has acted.

 

Evans was found guilty of rape by a jury. By law, a conviction has to be "beyond all reasonable doubt". Any grey area added to that exists purely because of Evans and his team.

It is a grey area though as rape, in this way, isn't exactly a single identifiable action. It's not like being caught on CCTV walking into ASDA and walking out with a tele. There's a lot more to it than that.

 

I'm not saying he's innocent, I'm just uneasy about saying he's 100% guilty because that's the verdict that was given.