"You're Just a Town Full of Pakis!"

[Guest Phil K]

Yes your a whinge if you do nowt about it, grow some balls and tackle the problem, if not (unfortunately) expect to hear it again and again.

Don't be so bloody daft.

How the hell can the lad tackle a problem like this BY HIMSELF ?

He's done the right thing in bringing it up.

I dont agree with him 100% but I'm bang on behind him in bringing it up.

Censuring those concerned, yes. But not banning.

Would the lad complaining for instance make a stand against someone gloating about 7/7 at his mosque ?

I doubt it.

Yet they are the ones RESPONSIBLE for people doing the "town full of pakis" that caused him so much anger.

What goes around comes around.

 

 

Good lad. 100% behind you doing this. Don't care if they were the greatest soopa fans tbh, they deserve to removed from sporting venues for good

 

Here is another example of overreaction making the problem greater.

This is a "thought police" mentality - You can only say things we allow you to say.

Ever heard of freedom of speech ?

It used to be popular before the PC brigade started their subservience to fanatics.

This kind of tugging forelocks revolts me. :wullie:

 

I'm sorry but that's a pompous load of pish.  The question was 'Is it racist'?  The answer is 'Yes' for the reason I outlined.  I'm not taking up cudgels on anyone's behalf, I'm answering the question.

Bullshit.

Its the same problem - someone offended by chants/shouts from opposition.

You ARE taking up cudgels.

[BlueStar]

Would the lad complaining for instance make a stand against someone gloating about 7/7 at his mosque ?

I doubt it.

Yet they are the ones RESPONSIBLE for people doing the "town full of pakis" that caused him so much anger.

 

Does this work across the board?  Like, are black people responsible for anti-black racism because they steal cars and sell drugs?  Are any racists responsible for their actions at all?  When some asian lads give a kid walking home shit just for being white, who's responsible?  White people who put dog shit through asian people's houses?  Is there anyone responsible for their own actions?

 

The song's been around before 7/7 and even 9/11 anyway, trying to shift responsibility is a cop out.

[Nobby]

 

It's not a word I would use to address an Asian person, would you?

 

no but does that make it racist?

you don't go up to an english person and say hello english or to a white man and say hello white man or a black man and say hello black man, just as you wouldn't go up to a person from pakistan and say hello paki or hello pakistani, doesn't make it racist

[Guest Phil K]

Would the lad complaining for instance make a stand against someone gloating about 7/7 at his mosque ?

I doubt it.

Yet they are the ones RESPONSIBLE for people doing the "town full of pakis" that caused him so much anger.

 

Does this work across the board?  Like, are black people responsible for anti-black racism because they steal cars and sell drugs?  Are any racists responsible for their actions at all?  When some asian lads give a kid walking home shit just for being white, who's responsible?  White people who put dog shit through asian people's houses?  Is there anyone responsible for their own actions?

 

The song's been around before 7/7 and even 9/11 anyway, trying to shift responsibility is a cop out.

Good point. blueyes.gif

But are you telling me the fact that almost a quarter of a million muslims AGREEING with 7/7* isnt going to produce a negatiive reation like the "town full of pakis" chant ?

 

*Surveys by The Guardian and The Times (both are trying to let their survey wither on the vine, as it didnt prove what they wanted it too - but the complete opposite)

 

By the way - while I am thoroughly enjoying the discussion, maybe it shouldn't be allowed to continued on a footie forum. If however there was another section "Politics" or "Non-footie" or "Loggerheads" It could be carried on there.

[BlueStar]

So do you admit that the song was having a go at 'pakis' then? 

 

How many blacks in the UK need to be drug dealers before it's acceptable to be racist against them?  Quarter of a million?

[Guest Phil K]

So you admit that the song was having a go at pakis then?

Completely, yes. But so was the chant at Boro about child molestors, the chants against scousers on the Jamie Boulger case, etc etc ad infinitum.

Why whine about one and laugh at the others ?

Why giggle about "Roast Ham United" at that disgusting home made petrol bomb thrown at West ham fans in the 80's ?

All or nothing, B.S.

 

So do you admit that the song was having a go at 'pakis' then? 

 

How many blacks in the UK need to be drug dealers before it's acceptable to be racist against them?  Quarter of a million?

How do you know it isnt that figure ? I don't - do you ? How ?

Besides - why should it be "racist" to condemn someone being a drug dealer because of their colour ?

Islamic terrorists wannabees use the "I'll be tortured" bullshit to avoid being kicked out. Its a standard ready made excuse they use barely containing a snigger at our stupidity.

Racist shouters do so because they've long since lost the plot.

[BlueStar]

I don't remember gloating about that to be honest.  I do remember threads about some of the chants you mentioned.  At no point did anyone start posting "But what about this racist chant for 3 years ago, why isn't anyone talking about that?"

 

Besides - why should it be "racist" to condemn someone being a drug dealer because of their colour ?

 

It's not, and I've never said it is.  But I don't think you can say "Well of course people make monkey noises at black players, xxxxxx of them are drug dealers you know, they're the people responsible.  Cause and effect."

[Guest Phil K]

I don't remember gloating about that to be honest.  I do remember threads about some of the chants you mentioned.  At no point did anyone start posting "But what about this racist chant for 3 years ago, why isn't anyone talking about that?"

Not answering the question though.

When is offensive "offensive" ?

You can't say "Thats OK because those taking offence are white"

But some actually DO.

Its just mirror image racism itself.

All offensive things should be treated in the same way, right ?

Or if not, you may be showing WHY the problem is growing.

[BlueStar]

Yep, all racism should be treated the same.  Black and asian people can be racist, just as white people can be "politically correct" and see anti-white conspiracy everywhere.

[LateRegistration]

Yes your a whinge if you do nowt about it, grow some balls and tackle the problem, if not (unfortunately) expect to hear it again and again.

Don't be so bloody daft.

How the hell can the lad tackle a problem like this BY HIMSELF ?

He's done the right thing in bringing it up.

I dont agree with him 100% but I'm bang on behind him in bringing it up.

Censuring those concerned, yes. But not banning.

Would the lad complaining for instance make a stand against someone gloating about 7/7 at his mosque ?

I doubt it.

Yet they are the ones RESPONSIBLE for people doing the "town full of pakis" that caused him so much anger.

What goes around comes around.

 

 

Good lad. 100% behind you doing this. Don't care if they were the greatest soopa fans tbh, they deserve to removed from sporting venues for good

 

Here is another example of overreaction making the problem greater.

This is a "thought police" mentality - You can only say things we allow you to say.

Ever heard of freedom of speech ?

It used to be popular before the PC brigade started their subservience to fanatics.

This kind of tugging forelocks revolts me. :wullie:

 

I'm sorry but that's a pompous load of pish.  The question was 'Is it racist'?  The answer is 'Yes' for the reason I outlined.  I'm not taking up cudgels on anyone's behalf, I'm answering the question.

Bullshit.

Its the same problem - someone offended by chants/shouts from opposition.

You ARE taking up cudgels.

 

 

As a matter of fact I bloody would. Thankfully there are no instances of this happening at either the mosque in benwell I go to or the university mosque I attend in Manchester.

 

In fact after the mosque in Benwell were very quick to condemn 7/7 at Jumma prayers on the 1st friday after the bombings. There were speeches given in both urdu and english so that the elders and British born lads like myself could understand.

 

There were also calls for calls for parents to be vigilant of their childrens actions and full co-operation with the police to aid their investigation and prevent further attacks.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Phil, I can see where you're coming from, it should be treated seriously when people of all backgrounds are abused.

 

Where I think there might be a slight difference is the intent - when opposition fans sung the child molesters song at boro, I don't think it was fuelled by a belief that it was literally true (I mean, they obviously knew this was a one off case). Whereas I do think that the 'town full of pakis' thing is fuelled by hatred and prejudice.

 

I've been part of singing 'where's your water gone' to Halifax fans during their water shortage, but only because we knew it wasn't really offensive, only a way of picking faults with rival fans, something all football supporters understand. I would hold back from using any chants that were genuinely offensive and had connotations beyond football. For example, nobody (I would think) is going around calling boro fans child molesters in general life, where people of Pakistani background have to put up with insults and racism all the time.

 

Despite the persecution complex you seem to have, white people in Britain are still the controlling and most priviledged section of society.

[Nobby]

For example, nobody (I would think) is going around calling boro fans child molesters in general life

wrong

[tmonkey]

As a matter of fact I bloody would. Thankfully there are no instances of this happening at either the mosque in benwell I go to or the university mosque I attend in Manchester.

 

In fact after the mosque in Benwell were very quick to condemn 7/7 at Jumma prayers on the 1st friday after the bombings. There were speeches given in both urdu and english so that the elders and British born lads like myself could understand.

 

There were also calls for calls for parents to be vigilant of their childrens actions and full co-operation with the police to aid their investigation and prevent further attacks.

 

Same as in every mosque. Unfortunately, that doesnt fit in well with media elements and rags like the Sun - if its not extreme, it doesnt suit the picture they like to portray, therefore it doesnt exist.

 

Hence, views like those of Phil K, who think its OK to be racist towards asians/muslims because they "deserve" it.

 

That kind of mentality is exactly how the terrorists themselves think. Terrorists dont see corrupt governments seperate from the millions of innocent civilians - they lump them all together, no different to those who hate all muslims because of the acts of a minority - hence why in their mind its OK to carry out acts of revenge on the general public.

[Guest shaun11177]

Never heard the chant myself-it sounds like a minority of a minority of a minority-if you are offended point it out to the police/stewards and get them chucked out.

The chant i remember was at Leicester away a few years ago

Where's your Taliban,Where's your Taliban,i must admit i found that a bit amusing but it kicked off a lovely debate.

[Guest Phil K]

 

As a matter of fact I bloody would. Thankfully there are no instances of this happening at either the mosque in benwell I go to or the university mosque I attend in Manchester.

 

In fact after the mosque in Benwell were very quick to condemn 7/7 at Jumma prayers on the 1st friday after the bombings. There were speeches given in both urdu and english so that the elders and British born lads like myself could understand.

 

There were also calls for calls for parents to be vigilant of their childrens actions and full co-operation with the police to aid their investigation and prevent further attacks.

That is damn good to hear.

However, there are more than enough examples of the opposite being the case, paticularly the North-West, Birmingham, London and the Yorkshire area where the 7/7 scumbags came from.

Nonetheless, while I don't like the chants, I feel there is a lot of hypocrisy from some people ranting about this and sniggering at some things like the Smoggies/child molestors thing.

I repeat, all or nothing.

 

 

I'm off to work now - any answers will have to wait til tommorow.

[ujpest doza]

You are taking things too seriously imo.

 

Every club/town  has a stereotype that is exploited in football chants to get a rise out of the opposition supporters.

 

For example :-

 

Blackburn/Bolton/Leicester/Luton : High Asian population therefore Town full of Pakis/Wheres your Taliban chants.

 

Liverpool/Everton : Seen as thieving scroungers therefore You nicked my car stereo and Feed the Scousers chants

 

Newcastle/Sunderland :  Seen also as poor so Feed the Geordies chants

 

Yorkshire, Bristol, Plymouth and Welsh Teams : Sheep Shaggers

 

Boro : Child molster chants and Chemical Chants etc. 

 

It goes on and has done for years, get over it.

 

[thedudeabides]

You are taking things too seriously imo.

 

Every club/town  has a stereotype that is exploited in football chants to get a rise out of the opposition supporters.

 

For example :-

 

Blackburn/Bolton/Leicester/Luton : High Asian population therefore Town full of Pakis/Wheres your Taliban chants.

 

Liverpool/Everton : Seen as thieving scroungers therefore You nicked my car stereo and Feed the Scousers chants

 

Newcastle/Sunderland :  Seen also as poor so Feed the Geordies chants

 

Yorkshire, Bristol, Plymouth and Welsh Teams : Sheep Shaggers

 

Boro : Child molster chants and Chemical Chants etc. 

 

It goes on and has done for years, get over it.

 

 

Nail on head.

 

I wouldn't sing it myself and am not going to make excuses for those singing the song, but I think it's more a case of ignorant banter than outright racism.

 

 

[Guest BooBoo]

You are taking things too seriously imo.

 

Every club/town  has a stereotype that is exploited in football chants to get a rise out of the opposition supporters.

 

For example :-

 

Blackburn/Bolton/Leicester/Luton : High Asian population therefore Town full of Pakis/Wheres your Taliban chants.

 

Liverpool/Everton : Seen as thieving scroungers therefore You nicked my car stereo and Feed the Scousers chants

 

Newcastle/Sunderland :  Seen also as poor so Feed the Geordies chants

 

Yorkshire, Bristol, Plymouth and Welsh Teams : Sheep Shaggers

 

Boro : Child molster chants and Chemical Chants etc. 

 

It goes on and has done for years, get over it.

 

 

Nail on head.

 

I wouldn't sing it myself and am not going to make excuses for those singing the song, but I think it's more a case of ignorant banter than outright racism.

 

 

 

[brummie]

I have to say, I heard the "town full of pakis" chant from Toon fans down at our place this year, not in the ground itself, but outside the ground. There are certain clubs we get this from a lot, all the north eastern clubs included.

 

When we played up at Wigan a few weeks ago, apparently the home fans were singing it there. It's not nice.

 

Every club has racist elements still (us included), but I think coming from fans from towns which don't have a particularly large Asian population (compared to Birmingham), whilst it is obviously racist, it is more of an ignorant racism than an aggressive racism, if that makes sense. Not that it excuses it.

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

[ChezGiven]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these fucking Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

[brummie]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

"Paki" has an entirely different connotation, as it has been used as a term of abuse. If you were to ask 100 British Asians whether they find the term derogatory, how many do you think would say no?

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

[thedudeabides]

I have to say, I heard the "town full of pakis" chant from Toon fans down at our place this year, not in the ground itself, but outside the ground. There are certain clubs we get this from a lot, all the north eastern clubs included.

 

When we played up at Wigan a few weeks ago, apparently the home fans were singing it there. It's not nice.

 

Every club has racist elements still (us included), but I think coming from fans from towns which don't have a particularly large Asian population (compared to Birmingham), whilst it is obviously racist, it is more of an ignorant racism than an aggressive racism, if that makes sense. Not that it excuses it.

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

Quite ironic that you should mention the Aussies, as in cricket they quite openly refer to the Pakistan team as "The Pakis".  Your thoughts?

[BlueStar]

Do they refer to the indians as pakis as well?

 

British people smoke fags, American men have fannies.  If you make the "OK" hand gesture in some countries you're calling someone an arsehole.  The point being that some things have different connotations in different countries depending on usage.

[UV]

You are taking things too seriously imo.

 

Every club/town  has a stereotype that is exploited in football chants to get a rise out of the opposition supporters.

 

For example :-

 

Blackburn/Bolton/Leicester/Luton : High Asian population therefore Town full of Pakis/Wheres your Taliban chants.

 

Liverpool/Everton : Seen as thieving scroungers therefore You nicked my car stereo and Feed the Scousers chants

 

Newcastle/Sunderland :  Seen also as poor so Feed the Geordies chants

 

Yorkshire, Bristol, Plymouth and Welsh Teams : Sheep Shaggers

 

Boro : Child molster chants and Chemical Chants etc. 

 

Exactly the point though. In all those cases the thing you're associating the opposition supporters with is a negative stereotype, ie:

 

thieving scroungers = bad

being poor = bad

Sheep Shaggers = bad

Child molsters / Chemicals = bad

 

Therefore by extension, "Town full of Pakis" = bad. So you're basically saying being a Pakistani is a bad thing. Whether intentionally or through ignorance, that's racism.

 

It goes on and has done for years, get over it.

:roll:

[brummie]

I have to say, I heard the "town full of pakis" chant from Toon fans down at our place this year, not in the ground itself, but outside the ground. There are certain clubs we get this from a lot, all the north eastern clubs included.

 

When we played up at Wigan a few weeks ago, apparently the home fans were singing it there. It's not nice.

 

Every club has racist elements still (us included), but I think coming from fans from towns which don't have a particularly large Asian population (compared to Birmingham), whilst it is obviously racist, it is more of an ignorant racism than an aggressive racism, if that makes sense. Not that it excuses it.

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

Quite ironic that you should mention the Aussies, as in cricket they quite openly refer to the Pakistan team as "The Pakis". Your thoughts?

 

My thoughts are that I don't know what the connotations are with the word over there but i certainly know what they are over here.