Jacob "The Juice" Murphy

[gazza ladra]

Apparently, the most underappreciated player not just at Newcastle United, but the entire league as well.

 

 

Missed this last week. Did a quick browse through to see if it had been posted, and learned that he is pretty underappreciated.  (Admittedly, his decision making in added time vs West Ham was really poor)

[Coffee_Johnny]

On 10/03/2025 at 22:43, Rod said:

Mark my words, he's going to score an absolute "screamer".

He’s a man you’d want in your team on days like today; would give me the greatest pleasure if he was the difference maker. 

[Ronson333]

On 26/01/2025 at 00:09, Ronson333 said:

He’s going to score the winner for us in the cup final, put money on it.

Today’s the day!

[Shadow Puppets]

I absolutely adore the bloke like, limited in his ability or not… him and Dan Burn are the two I want to succeed the most.

[Geordie_once_removed]

Like a couple of others I feel he's got a special role to play today, either an assist of a thunderbolt of a goal. Or waving VVD off after he finally gets sent off for throwing elbows. Any of the above would be fine with me.

[Kaizero]

1 minute ago, Shadow Puppets said:

I absolutely adore the bloke like, limited in his ability or not… him and Dan Burn are the two I want to succeed the most.

 

He's not limited in his ability at all. I used to be of the same opinion, but the numbers don't lie. Across all of our PL seasons, only Asprilla, Robert, Fox, Cole and Gordon have a higher assist per 90 minutes ratio than Murphy. And that's only scratching the surface when it comes to his contributions when on the pitch.

 

His name isn't glamorous and he doesn't have the swagger of the likes of Saint-Maximin, Ben Arfa, Ginola and so on. I think that's mainly why people keep dragging his name through the mud, the only thing I'd hold against him currently would be his age. 

[McCormick]

The eye test definitely suggests there a big weaknesses in his game, like. Can’t argue with his output though.

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

He's not limited in his ability at all. I used to be of the same opinion, but the numbers don't lie. Across all of our PL seasons, only Asprilla, Robert, Fox, Cole and Gordon have a higher assist per 90 minutes ratio than Murphy. And that's only scratching the surface when it comes to his contributions when on the pitch.

 

His name isn't glamorous and he doesn't have the swagger of the likes of Saint-Maximin, Ben Arfa, Ginola and so on. I think that's mainly why people keep dragging his name through the mud, the only thing I'd hold against him currently would be his age. 

 

Come on man.

 

He's a Premier league winger that can't take a man on, struggles to complete a pass in build up from the back, and can't hold off players or keep the ball when he's under the slightest bit of pressure.

 

Having said that, if you can get him the ball in some space high up the pitch, he's capable of putting in a dangerous ball.

 

I think ideally you'd want him in a 3-4-2-1 system, where he'd play as an overlapping right wing back, which would hide a lot of his issues and accentuate his strengths.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

30 minutes ago, Geordie_once_removed said:

Like a couple of others I feel he's got a special role to play today, either an assist of a thunderbolt of a goal. Or waving VVD off after he finally gets sent off for throwing elbows. Any of the above would be fine with me.

 

John Brooks has given Van Elbow a red against us before.....

[Kaizero]

26 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Come on man.

 

He's a Premier league winger that can't take a man on, struggles to complete a pass in build up from the back, and can't hold off players or keep the ball when he's under the slightest bit of pressure.

 

Having said that, if you can get him the ball in some space high up the pitch, he's capable of putting in a dangerous ball.

 

I think ideally you'd want him in a 3-4-2-1 system, where he'd play as an overlapping right wing back, which would hide a lot of his issues and accentuate his strengths.

 

What are you even on about? He's in the 80th percentile of all PL players when it comes to getting past defenders... The other bits has already been debunked, which makes it baffling to be pointing out. 

 

He's 11th of all PL players this season when it comes to contributing to goals scored. When removing team's penalty takers goals from penalties, he's 9th. He's 25th when it comes for "big chances created".

 

There's no statistical evidence that could be used to back up an argument for Murphy not having been, and still is, a quality PL winger. Again, he's the 7th best NUFC player in the club's PL history when it comes to assists per 90 minutes.

 

 

Edited March 16 by Kaizero

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

What are you even on about? He's in the 80th percentile of all PL players when it comes to getting past defenders... The other bits has already been debunked, which makes it baffling to be pointing out. 

 

He's 11th of all PL players this season when it comes to contributing to goals scored. When removing team's penalty takers goals from penalties, he's 9th. He's 25th when it comes for "big chances created".

 

There's no statistical evidence that could be used to back up an argument for Murphy not having been, and still is, a quality PL winger. Again, he's the 7th best NUFC player in the club's PL history when it comes to assists per 90 minutes.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how you can watch Jacob Murphy and believe he is good at getting past players. 

 

I don't know who he's being compared to with what data set you are using but, I'm not having that. 

 

If you're happy with him starting down the right that's fine, but he is severely lacking in some pretty significant areas, which leads to us being put under pressure.

 

He just isn't good enough.

[Coffee_Johnny]

Today’s not the day for such stuff. Howay lads get your head where it should be. 

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I'm not sure how you can watch Jacob Murphy and believe he is good at getting past players. 

 

I don't know who he's being compared to with what data set you are using but, I'm not having that. 

 

If you're happy with him starting down the right that's fine, but he is severely lacking in some pretty significant areas, which leads to us being put under pressure.

 

He just isn't good enough.

 

 

Because the stats don't lie. They literally state how often he gets past players  

 

He's being compared to all the other PL players, and whatever data set I'd be referencing would tell the exact same story. FWIW, I use WyScout and I trust it just as much as Arsenal, Manchester City, Barcelona and clubs of that ilk does, as it's the tool their scouts use. Given the fact it costs £3k a year for access, it better be correct.

 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

 

Because the stats don't lie. They literally state how often he gets past players  

 

He's being compared to all the other PL players, and whatever data set I'd be referencing would tell the exact same story. FWIW, I use WyScout and I trust it just as much as Arsenal, Manchester City, Barcelona and clubs of that ilk does, as it's the tool their scouts use. Given the fact it costs £3k a year for access, it better be correct.

 

 

All other players? Shouldn't he be compared against all other wingers?

 

Anyway ... me personally, I'm looking forward to getting in a better all around footballer in the position next year.

 

Because at the moment, every time he gets the ball in our own half I'm sweating bullets.

 

[Coffee_Johnny]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

All other players? Shouldn't he be compared against all other wingers?

 

Anyway ... me personally, I'm looking forward to getting in a better all around footballer in the position next year.

 

Because at the moment, every time he gets the ball in our own half I'm sweating bullets.

 

Right Kaka, 100 burpees for you when The Juice bangs one in. 

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

All other players? Shouldn't he be compared against all other wingers?

 

Anyway ... me personally, I'm looking forward to getting in a better all around footballer in the position next year.

 

Because at the moment, every time he gets the ball in our own half I'm sweating bullets.

 

 

You do realize that if only comparing him to wingers, he'd rank even higher...right?  

[KaKa]

Just now, Coffee_Johnny said:

Right Kaka, 100 burpees for you when The Juice bangs one in. 

 

I hope he does. He does some good things in the final third.

 

It's not his fault we don't have any better options there.

 

We definitely need to improve things on that side going forward though, no question about it.

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I hope he does. He does some good things in the final third.

 

It's not his fault we don't have any better options there.

 

We definitely need to improve things on that side going forward though, no question about it.

 

5th best winger in the PL so far this season. I'd say we should be fairly happy he's playing for us and not our competition.

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

You do realize that if only comparing him to wingers, he'd rank even higher...right?  

 

Just now, Kaizero said:

 

5th best winger in the PL so far this season. I'd say we should be fairly happy he's playing for us and not our competition.

 

Why does this have his successful take ons so low then?

 

[Shearergol]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

 

5th best winger in the PL so far this season. I'd say we should be fairly happy he's playing for us and not our competition.

Who are the top 4 out of interest?

[Kaizero]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

Who are the top 4 out of interest?

 

Palmer, Kluivert, Saka and Elanga. 

 

Salah is at the top if we're to count him as an out-and-out winger, which I didn't as KaKa was on about only comparing Murphy to wingers, and in my mind Salah is more a striker than winger  

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Palmer, Kluivert, Saka and Elanga. 

 

Salah is at the top if we're to count him as an out-and-out winger, which I didn't as KaKa was on about only comparing Murphy to wingers, and in my mind Salah is more a striker than winger  

 

Just off the top of my head Gordon and Madueke would have to be ahead of him and they aren't on your list of top 4.

 

But checking on fbref it lines up more with what I'd expect.

 

So something seems to be off.

 

 

[Kaizero]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

Why does this have his successful take ons so low then?

 

 

You need to combine relevant stats to get a genuine insight into what a player delivers in total. Can't cherry pick one stat, that's why most people hate when people reference xA and xG as something definitive.

 

A take-on attempt is when a player makes a decisive move to pass a player in front of them. It doesn't include a successful dribble as that counts as an attempted dribble, not a take-on attempt – even if the dribble means the player gets past the opposing player. If the singular stat showing that Murphy's not had success with decisive moves to pass a player  brings you comfort, I won't take that away from you. I do recommend you look up how many take-on attempts Murphy's made, so you at least get some context regarding the actual importance of that stat. At the same time, look up his attempted dribbles (this is the stat for more advanced take-on attempts). 

 

I also recommend you use something more accurate than FBRef as they don't even have the correct amount of minutes played. There are decent free alternatives out there, UnderStat and FootyStats being two of them.

[Kaizero]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Just off the top of my head Gordon and Madueke would have to be ahead of him and they aren't on your list of top 4.

 

But checking on fbref it lines up more with what I'd expect.

 

So something seems to be off.

 

 

 

If scouts used your method for comparing players, it'd be pure chaos. 

 

The ranking method utilized was combining a data set consisting of chances created for team, big chances created for team, goals scored, assists, xBuildUp90 and xChain. Then weighing and averaging those values for a player acting as a winger, before combining them into an average weighted score.

 

I'll give you that I did not include "successful take-ons" in the data set.

 

 

Edited March 16 by Kaizero

[KaKa]

8 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

You need to combine relevant stats to get a genuine insight into what a player delivers in total. Can't cherry pick one stat, that's why most people hate when people reference xA and xG as something definitive.

 

A take-on attempt is when a player makes a decisive move to pass a player in front of them. It doesn't include a successful dribble as that counts as an attempted dribble, not a take-on attempt – even if the dribble means the player gets past the opposing player. If the singular stat showing that Murphy's not had success with decisive moves to pass a player  brings you comfort, I won't take that away from you. I do recommend you look up how many take-on attempts Murphy's made, so you at least get some context regarding the actual importance of that stat. At the same time, look up his attempted dribbles (this is the stat for more advanced take-on attempts). 

 

I also recommend you use something more accurate than FBRef as they don't even have the correct amount of minutes played. There are decent free alternatives out there, UnderStat and FootyStats being two of them.

 

4 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

If scouts used your method for comparing players, it'd be pure chaos. 

 

The ranking method utilized was combining a data set consisting of chances created for team, big chances created for team, goals scored, assists, xBuildUp90 and xChain. Then weighing and averaging those values for a player acting as a winger, before combining them into an average weighted score.

 

I'll give you that I did not include "successful take-ons" in the data set.

 

 

 

 

My first point of reference is from watching the games.

 

Whether it's dribbles or take ons with whatever definition is used, I'm not putting Murphy ahead of the likes of Gordon, Madueke, Luis Diaz, Cunha, Neto, Mitoma and Kudus just as some examples of players that weren't in your top 4 ahead of him.

 

It doesn't add up for me. 

 

But fine to agree to disagree.