Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[arnonel]

Maxi must stay. He is an absolute handful for the opposition. Completely different player. 

[Toonjam88]

9 minutes ago, GEFAFWISP said:

It's a bit of nonsense thinking we're going to get 2/3 quality players from the supposed £35 million he'd bring in. Yes he's a saleable asset, no the money gained likely won't get you someone of a similar level. Keep and play, shouldn't really be a consideration unless a better winger falls into our lap.

That’s how FFP works though if we sell him for £50 million which I think we could then that immediately goes onto our balance sheet where as anyone bought is spread over the length of the contract so there is no reason with the money we still have and the money we get from Maxi we can get 2 to 3 quality players. Also if Maxi is that good why isn’t there top top teams after him??

The problem with our fan base is that we are too emotional towards certain players. 

[Toonjam88]

8 minutes ago, arnonel said:

Maxi must stay. He is an absolute handful for the opposition. Completely different player. 

He just isn’t like that on a consistent basis though. The way people are going on you would think he was a bloody world beater he isn’t otherwise top teams would be after him now as he is our only saleable asset. 

[sushimonster85]

12 minutes ago, Pata said:

Yeah, you can’t replace ASM with £30-35m. I see no reason to create another hole in the squad just because he’s a lazy French cunt according to some. 

 

If it's a Saudi side (which I hope ,for Maxi's sake, isn't the case) we could get at least 40m for him. Say we do, instead of saying 'can we replace ASM with 40m' a better way of looking at it is 'we have only had a net spend of 15m so far'. We know any fees brought back in will go straight back into the squad, meaning there is still a good chunk of change left to spend. 

[Toon88]

Exactly. It’s all sentimental, and that’s the problem. Some people are stuck in the past, when in reality, you need to move on, and be ruthless. This is business at the end of the day. Why are City where they are? Being ruthless on and off the field.

 

As for ASM, I really don’t get the fascination with keeping him. It’s like you want to hold the club back, and aren’t seeing the bigger picture. FFP is a reality. Do you want to sign three new players to improve the squad, or do you want to keep an injury prone player, who misses around 13 games a season, has pretty poor end product, and is not ideally suited to Howe’s style?

 

With the ASM money added to the remaining budget, you can easily improve the squad. It’s a no-brainer to sell. 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88

[Gawalls]

11 minutes ago, arnonel said:

Maxi must stay. He is an absolute handful for the opposition. Completely different player. 

Yeah I seen that game - he was

[hakka]

22 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

He just isn’t like that on a consistent basis though. The way people are going on you would think he was a bloody world beater he isn’t otherwise top teams would be after him now as he is our only saleable asset. 

 

Stats say he is though, unless you mean because of injuries and not playing.

[arnonel]

Looks like the "Ben Arfa doesnt track back" brigade are in full swing.

 

Allan Saint-Maximin Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com

 

 

 

 

[gazza ladra]

I’m sure that the club will make the right decision. 
 

He was injured much of last season and consequently inconsistent, but he showed signs of changing his game to adopt to Howe’s game plan. And he’s always up for a big game, so I think that he will do really well for us in Europe.

I think he will be worth more money at the end of next season than he is now.

[hakka]

23 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

Exactly. It’s all sentimental, and that’s the problem. Some people are stuck in the past, when in reality, you need to move on, and be ruthless. This is business at the end of the day. Why are City where they are? Being ruthless on and off the field.

 

As for ASM, I really don’t get the fascination with keeping him. It’s like you want to hold the club back, and aren’t seeing the bigger picture. FFP is a reality. Do you want to sign three new players to improve the squad, or do you want to keep an injury prone player, who misses around 13 games a season, has pretty poor end product, and is not ideally suited to Howe’s style?

 

With the ASM money added to the remaining budget, you can easily improve the squad. It’s a no-brainer to sell. 

 

 

 

 

He was our most productive player per 90 mins played last season, and our 3rd highest creative player overall despite only managing 12.38 full games worth of time on the pitch

 

By all means you can argue he was injured too much and that has to improve, but it's absolute nonsense to suggest he isn't contributing when on the pitch.

[Toonjam88]

6 minutes ago, hakka said:

 

Stats say he is though, unless you mean because of injuries and not playing.

Exactly injuries and not playing regularly. 
If he wasn’t so injured then yes keep him but he is consistently out with hamstring injuries. 

[Toonjam88]

1 minute ago, hakka said:

 

He was our most productive player per 90 mins played last season, and our 3rd highest creative player overall despite only managing 12.38 full games worth of time on the pitch

 

By all means you can argue he was injured too much and that has to improve, but it's absolute nonsense to suggest he isn't contributing when on the pitch.

Don’t think anyone has said he doesn’t contribute on the field (well not what I have read) but he is injured too much and unfortunately I can’t see that getting any better with the way he plays. If selling him helped us get a quality right centre half, quality left back, quality right attacking midfielder and even a young forward surely that would make it worth while. And before anyone says the money we get from Maxi wouldn’t get all those well with the money we already have and any funds from the sale of Maxi immediately going into the balance sheet, plus the way FFP spreads over any contract length then I think it would. If he stays then I would also be happy with that and think if he stays fit would be a massive plus for us but I think he will miss more games than he will play. 

[Gate4]

It's not like ASM had one big injury. He got injured again and again and again. Unfortunately he is the prime kind of player to sell to the saudi league. The more I think about it the more sense it makes.

[Adam P]

I imagine if we sell ASM for 35m its because we think we can have a chance to get a better overall player for 70m. He signed for 16m 4 years ago, so depending on how they chose to amortise, 35m would probably be pure upside for the transfer budget.

 

ASM's issues are not just tracking back, its positional discipline too, although both improved they were not consistent when he played. You cant really pick up 'standing around in the wrong place' from stats. 

 

I'm sure Eddie said that when we grow, we will have to let go of players who are loved. 

[Cf]

As much as I love ASM I must admit I don't see his long term future being here.

 

We're probably not yet at the position where we're looking to upgrade on him as our squad depth isn't there yet and we're going to have loads of games next season.

 

But he won't be first choice, and there's too much of a player there not to be first choice for someone.

[Toon88]

Comparing to similar players in 22/23

 

Kvaratskhelia - Apps 34 games - 12 goals/10 assists

 

Leao - Apps - 35 games - 15 goals/8 assists

 

Vinicius Jnr - Apps - 33 games - 10 goals/9 assists

Grealish - Apps - 28 games - 5 goals/7 assists

 

Chukwueze - Apps - 37 games - 6 goals/5 assists

 

Harvey Barnes - Apps 34 games - 13 goals 

 

Saint-Maximin - Apps - 25 games - 1 goal/5 assists

 

Comparing to others, his stats showcase he’s not a genuine goal threat for the position he plays, compared to Europe’s elite. Assists is on a par level. Least appearances of all, showcasing his injury record. In the last four seasons (152 league games), he’s missed 41.

 

I fully appreciate what he has done and did for the club during the Ashley era. However, the club dynamic has changed, and our FFP restrictions, means he’s our biggest saleable asset and is therefore expendable. He’s not elite, the stats prove that, and he has an awful injury record. He’s also lost half a yard of pace protecting those hamstrings, and in his attempt to press to the demands Howe requires.

 

Time to sell. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88

[Shak]

2 hours ago, Pata said:

You can’t just tell a youngish player that we are selling you to Saudi Arabia ffs.

 

No but it's not out of the realm of possibility that he would be up for the move, surely? When you look at the likes of Ruben Neves moving there, it's not out of the question he'd be up for it.

 

The money would be truly preposterous and he'd be able to have a very cushy number taking the piss out of much lesser opponents. By all accounts he loved being here under Bruce in a team that had no ambition whatsoever so it depends on what his priorities are.

[Hanshithispantz]

Why have you went out of your way to compile a list of appearances vs goal involvements, and presented it to people who know (and have already stated) how pointless that is given the ammount of minutes he's actually played? 

 

He's a crock, but his end product is great. I don't know how you can have watched him at all and come to the conclusion that isn't the case. He's a great crosser, links up great with players, is one of the only players we have who can properly strike a ball. He picks people out in the box a lot.

[Keegans Export]

1 hour ago, Pata said:

Yeah, you can’t replace ASM with £30-35m. I see no reason to create another hole in the squad just because he’s a lazy French cunt according to some. 

You aren't replacing him for £30-35m though, you're replacing him for £30-35m plus the existing budget.

 

I also wonder whether Gordon isn't ultimately the ASM replacement anyway, at least in Howe's mind anyway. What I mean by that is that he's the starting LW, or ends up as the starting LW.

[Toonjam88]

23 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

Comparing to similar players in 22/23

 

Kvaratskhelia - Apps 34 games - 12 goals/10 assists

 

Leao - Apps - 35 games - 15 goals/8 assists

 

Vinicius Jnr - Apps - 33 games - 10 goals/9 assists

Grealish - Apps - 28 games - 5 goals/7 assists

 

Chukwueze - Apps - 37 games - 6 goals/5 assists

 

Harvey Barnes - Apps 34 games - 13 goals 

 

Saint-Maximin - Apps - 25 games - 1 goal/5 assists

 

Comparing to others, his stats showcase he’s not a genuine goal threat for the position he plays, compared to Europe’s elite. Assists is on a par level. Least appearances of all, showcasing his injury record. In the last four seasons (152 league games), he’s missed 41.

 

I fully appreciate what he has done and did for the club during the Ashley era. However, the club dynamic has changed, and our FFP restrictions, means he’s our biggest saleable asset and is therefore expendable. He’s not elite, the stats prove that, and he has an awful injury record. He’s also lost half a yard of pace protecting those hamstrings, and in his attempt to press to the demands Howe requires.

 

Time to sell. 

 

 

 

 

 

2 of those assists were against City the one game which he played like everyone seems to think he plays on a regular basis. 

[Hanshithispantz]

He's quite clearly a very effective player in the final 3rd:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Hanshithispantz

[Geogaddi]

I like him but you don't get very far with inconsistent injury prone wingers, no other teams in the top 6 would want him and we should be no different, if we can get 30 or 40 million for him we should sell.

[hakka]

54 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

Don’t think anyone has said he doesn’t contribute on the field (well not what I have read) but he is injured too much and unfortunately I can’t see that getting any better with the way he plays. If selling him helped us get a quality right centre half, quality left back, quality right attacking midfielder and even a young forward surely that would make it worth while. And before anyone says the money we get from Maxi wouldn’t get all those well with the money we already have and any funds from the sale of Maxi immediately going into the balance sheet, plus the way FFP spreads over any contract length then I think it would. If he stays then I would also be happy with that and think if he stays fit would be a massive plus for us but I think he will miss more games than he will play. 

 

I literally put Toon88's bit in bold where he said "has pretty poor end product" - which is not true.

[Toonjam88]

If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi 

[hakka]

33 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

Comparing to similar players in 22/23

 

Kvaratskhelia - Apps 34 games - 12 goals/10 assists

 

Leao - Apps - 35 games - 15 goals/8 assists

 

Vinicius Jnr - Apps - 33 games - 10 goals/9 assists

Grealish - Apps - 28 games - 5 goals/7 assists

 

Chukwueze - Apps - 37 games - 6 goals/5 assists

 

Harvey Barnes - Apps 34 games - 13 goals 

 

Saint-Maximin - Apps - 25 games - 1 goal/5 assists

 

Comparing to others, his stats showcase he’s not a genuine goal threat for the position he plays, compared to Europe’s elite. Assists is on a par level. Least appearances of all, showcasing his injury record. In the last four seasons (152 league games), he’s missed 41.

 

I fully appreciate what he has done and did for the club during the Ashley era. However, the club dynamic has changed, and our FFP restrictions, means he’s our biggest saleable asset and is therefore expendable. He’s not elite, the stats prove that, and he has an awful injury record. He’s also lost half a yard of pace protecting those hamstrings, and in his attempt to press to the demands Howe requires.

 

Time to sell. 

 

 

He didn't play 25 x 90 min games. He played 12.38 full games minutes wise. When you actually start comparing the time on the pitch compared to others his stats suddenly show he's very effective per 90 mins played. You're deliberately picking stats that are not compatible and unfair to suit your agenda of getting rid of ASM.