Relegationometer

[Stu]

We've beaten Stoke, Soton, Villa and Chelsea - three of those it would have been shameful not to have beaten anyway, but then we lose to Wigan so that balances that out.

 

 

x10

[Stu]

I think some people have painted themselves into a corner and now feel they'll look stupid by turning and saying the manager should go. That's the only explanation I can offer for those prepared to defend what has been an utter car crash of a season.

 

Only by the exceptional standards of last season though.

 

Putting aside the disappointment from yesterday's result; what have we achieved so far this season?

 

- improving the squad with the acquisition of several promising (and experienced) players in key positions.

- a reasonably lengthy return to European action after 6/7 years absence (we could have easily gone out at the group stage, given the poor performances and injury issues in the league)

- a relatively drama-free season; something to be mindful of given the off-field turbulence between club, owner and fans in the past decade. No dodgy news reports about the team/players, no front page 'ffs' headlines. Generally positive reactions to club news (wonga, excepted perhaps)

 

We've had quite a sizeable turnover of players under Pardew; almost a brand new first XI from when he took over 2 years ago. Are we really expecting all of this fluctuation to be smooth and a benefit to the players/team?

 

Expectations haven't been lowered, but there's definitely a point where some people can recognise the overall improvement of the club (and the team), even if the short-term results haven't been stellar. Perhaps it's more a case of others wanting to substantiate their initial opinions of the manager and not remembering what it was like to support a club where you didn't mind the owner/chairman/chief executive/manager/tea lady..?

[brummie]

It shows the terrible quality of the PL this year.

 

Not only are a really pretty unspectacular team running away with the league, but there are four points separating 17th and 11th, and in that bunch of teams, there are several who aren't playing very well at all.

 

When you strengthened in January, I thought you had effectively ensured you wouldn't go down. I watched most of your match yesterday, though, and was really surprised at how lacklustre and, well, unbothered you looked for much of it, so I am now not too sure at all.

 

What will happen, though, is at least one side will have a terrible run in and find themselves right in the relegation mire. I think that team is definitely going to be Sunderland, but if you look at the current form table, West Ham are also not looking too clever.

 

We are still definitely in the shit, potentially, but we've been playing pretty well for the last few weeks, without necessarily getting the results. Plus, we're scoring goals. Since the start of the year, Agbonlahor has 4 in 9, Benteke has 9 in 11 and Weimann has 3 in 9, despite being stuck out wide most of the time. Our problem comes with defending, we're having to score 3 goals to win games.

 

Anyway, whilst I think there are plenty of teams playing bad enough to go down, I think it will actually be Sunderland, Reading and QPR (and the second two of those are practically gone already).

 

[Guest neesy111]

We just need to get the points, stay up and completely forget what has been an abysmal season.  Our away record is embarrassing.

[brummie]

From the outside in, I am actually pretty gobsmacked you've managed to have such a poor season after such a good one.

[Dave]

You clearly have an agenda against Pardew.

[Dr Venkman]

Actually would be interesting to hear Brummie's thoughts on Pardew.

[mrmojorisin75]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

[brummie]

I honestly don't know what to think about him. I've not really seen you play much this season.

 

What I will say, though, is that from the outside looking in, your transfer approach looks excellent, and there is a certain amount of jealousy for the way you clearly did some proper scouting and brought in players like HBA, Cabaye etc.

 

I certainly know that our fans were green with envy in January when you did good business, but we did next to none (although, I have to say, ironically, the French import we made, albeit from Ligue 2, has looked very good in his two games thus far).

 

I don't know how much of, say, your success last season was due to the manager and how much was down to Carr, though, in bringing in the right players, thus making Pardew's job relatively straightforward.

 

Like I said, though, I find it baffling, utterly baffling, that you've followed such a good season with such a poor one.

 

[nufc4eva]

A couple of weeks ago I thought 36/37 would be safe but not so sure now. The title race is dead so City and Utd are going to knock off, though getting anything against them is still difficult it won't be as unlikely. And with only one Europa place up for grabs in the league (probably) could end up with a lot of the top ten having not much to play from a way out.

 

Not sure Man City can afford to "knock off" as they may drop to 4th place - if anything I think they may play better with title pressure off

[mrmojorisin75]

I think some people have painted themselves into a corner and now feel they'll look stupid by turning and saying the manager should go. That's the only explanation I can offer for those prepared to defend what has been an utter car crash of a season.

 

Only by the exceptional standards of last season though.

 

Putting aside the disappointment from yesterday's result; what have we achieved so far this season?

 

- improving the squad with the acquisition of several promising (and experienced) players in key positions.

- a reasonably lengthy return to European action after 6/7 years absence (we could have easily gone out at the group stage, given the poor performances and injury issues in the league)

- a relatively drama-free season; something to be mindful of given the off-field turbulence between club, owner and fans in the past decade. No dodgy news reports about the team/players, no front page 'ffs' headlines. Generally positive reactions to club news (wonga, excepted perhaps)

 

We've had quite a sizeable turnover of players under Pardew; almost a brand new first XI from when he took over 2 years ago. Are we really expecting all of this fluctuation to be smooth and a benefit to the players/team?

 

Expectations haven't been lowered, but there's definitely a point where some people can recognise the overall improvement of the club (and the team), even if the short-term results haven't been stellar. Perhaps it's more a case of others wanting to substantiate their initial opinions of the manager and not remembering what it was like to support a club where you didn't mind the owner/chairman/chief executive/manager/tea lady..?

 

Stu (and Inochi if you like) simple question: has the manger performed well enough for you this season?

 

to make it easier for you let's break it down into the following yes/no's, and feel free to add your own: (a) basic results (b) tactics, formations, player selection etc. © man-management (d) media

 

the reason i ask is of the points you've listed above no-one is fucking arguing against them being positives, but they're not the type of positives that put points on the table i'm afraid (neither is media mind, but i thought you'd probably want something like that in)

[Guest icemanblue]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

[Dr Venkman]

I can't see QPR or Reading making 11 points on us like. Can Wigan gain 7? Probably aye, I think we'll see them off though.

[Teasy]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

We've got 12 points from our previous 8 games, IMO we'll need mo more than 7 points from the following 8 to stay up (probably more like 4-5 points though).

 

So personally I'm at a 2 on the relegationometer.

[mrmojorisin75]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

 

i think the argument is that we didn't really generate any form, we signed some players who came in and had an immediate impact and won us some games...in fact this is precisely my fucking point and main beef with pardew - that he didn't and couldn't generate any form when things weren't going his way up to the arrival of the new bodies...therefore i see it as massively relevant to us that we're 8 games from the end of the season, not safe, and our players are dropping like flies...it's certainly conceivable we could fall into a rut again that he can't get us out of

 

to repeat though, i don't think we will, i think we'll scrape another couple of wins from the 8 games, but i have a massive issue with this 1 bullshit you and Stu peddle because quite simply the quality of our play combined with the other factors i've already outlined make us in danger of getting dragged in and therefore not a fucking 1

[mrmojorisin75]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

[brummie]

I can't see QPR or Reading making 11 points on us like. Can Wigan gain 7? Probably aye, I think we'll see them off though.

 

Redknapp knows that QPR are gone, I reckon. He desperately threw five men up front on Saturday to try to claw something back, and in his post match interview, you could tell he knew the game was up.

 

Reading are also gone, I think.

 

It is just one place to play for. Wigan are perfectly capable of making up the points, but look at yesterday, and how utterly flukey they were. Their form otherwise is awful (wasn't it two wins in the last fifteen before yesterday?)

 

I must admit, though, the fact we play Wigan on the last day of the season is nagging at the back of my mind.

[Ketsbaia]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

[afar]

Think my number is rising again after yesterday. With all the injuries and Man shitty away (certain loss) next, if Wigan win their next game we are suddenly only 3 points ahead of the bottom 3 ! Worried again.

[mrmojorisin75]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

 

bang on the fucking money, mind you as Stu rightly points out we've not been quite so embarrassing in the papers for a while so i suppose that sort of balances out how fucking abysmal pardiola has been from the first minute of the season eh?

 

we should be thankful

[Teasy]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

 

Yeah I was just pointing out that you were mentioning the players we'd lost since then but not the ones we've gained.  As in we've lost Coloccini, but we've gained Yanga-Mbiwa ect (and we didn't have Taylor during that terrible run of results either).  Also while I agree Sissoko isn't being used correctly and can be forced out of the game easier then he should he's still not going to be totally nullified, he'll still be a positive for us in the next 8 games.

[Guest icemanblue]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

 

i think the argument is that we didn't really generate any form, we signed some players who came in and had an immediate impact and won us some games...in fact this is precisely my fucking point and main beef with pardew - that he didn't and couldn't generate any form when things weren't going his way up to the arrival of the new bodies...therefore i see it as massively relevant to us that we're 8 games from the end of the season, not safe, and our players are dropping like flies...it's certainly conceivable we could fall into a rut again that he can't get us out of

 

to repeat though, i don't think we will, i think we'll scrape another couple of wins from the 8 games, but i have a massive issue with this 1 bullshit you and Stu peddle because quite simply the quality of our play combined with the other factors i've already outlined make us in danger of getting dragged in and therefore not a fucking 1

 

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

 

I was just pointing out that you were mentioning the players we'd lost but not the ones we've gained.  As in yes we've lost Coloccini, but we've gained Yanga-Mbiwa (and we have Taylor doing that terrible run of results).  Also while I agree Sissoko isn't being used correctly and can be forced out of the game easier then he should he's still not going to be totally nullified, he'll still be a positive for us in the next 8 games.

 

agreed, and to be painfully repetitive i'm certainly not saying we're going down but it's going to be a hell of a lot closer than it ever should have been even with the new players you know?    we've been chronically mismanaged this season, there's no getting away from it, and i honestly fear for some people next season 'cause it's not going to get better under pardew, it really isn't

 

the tragedy being, as someone else has said, is that it'll all probably end in such a waste of great talent at the club

[mrmojorisin75]

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

 

there's no basis to your position, it should annoy everyone

 

[Guest icemanblue]

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

 

there's no basis to your position, it should annoy everyone

 

 

That's your opinion. It's cool, I can handle that.