Eddie Howe - Granted Freedom of Newcastle

[BrianSwan]

Need to go back to being a nightmare to play against, pressing monsters.

 

Look at Villa, their success is built upon Watkins, Rodgers, McGuin et al pressing like mad men, and going direct, vertical football.

[TheBrownBottle]

9 hours ago, BrianSwan said:

Need to go back to being a nightmare to play against, pressing monsters.

 

Look at Villa, their success is built upon Watkins, Rodgers, McGuin et al pressing like mad men, and going direct, vertical football.

It absolutely broke our squad last year.  We’ve got too many injury-prone players to actually play like that for an extended period.

 

We needed to evolve into a different playing style - spunking lots of money usually allows you to do that.  As yet, we haven’t evolved.  I’m fully prepared to give Howe time to evolve the style - though to date there’s been little indication that he will. 

[mouldy_uk]

That is the dilemma 

 

Press lots = break the squad 

Don’t press = zero plan B and not enough creative players 

[STM]

16 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It absolutely broke our squad last year.  We’ve got too many injury-prone players to actually play like that for an extended period.

 

We needed to evolve into a different playing style - spunking lots of money usually allows you to do that.  As yet, we haven’t evolved.  I’m fully prepared to give Howe time to evolve the style - though to date there’s been little indication that he will. 

 

Eddie Howe is a manager who's philosophy is pressing, high energy football (I agree we aren't seeing much of it at the moment). 

 

Asking him to change (evolve) won't work and isn't necessary. Klopp won loads playing a similar way. Also you don't hire a manager and then ask them to change. Imagine asking Pep to play more direct?

 

Howe could change his formation or his line up and keep the same philosophy.

 

And while I agree that this style is taxing on the players, the answer isn't to change the manager, it's to change the players.

 

If you won't a manager more possession based, that's totally understandable, just don't ask Howe to do it. A complete waste of time IMO.

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

 

Eddie Howe is a manager who's philosophy is pressing, high energy football (I agree we aren't seeing much of it at the moment). 

 

Asking him to change (evolve) won't work and isn't necessary. Klopp won loads playing a similar way. Also you don't hire a manager and then ask them to change. Imagine asking Pep to play more direct?

 

Howe could change his formation or his line up and keep the same philosophy.

 

And while I agree that this style is taxing on the players, the answer isn't to change the manager, it's to change the players.

 

If you won't a manager more possession based, that's totally understandable, just don't ask Howe to do it. A complete waste of time IMO.

I suspect you’re probably right, but I do also think that Howe is a better ‘thinker’ of the game than he’s often given credit for.

 

What’s odd to me is that he hasn’t built a ‘pressing’ squad.  Other than Gordon, I don’t think any of his big money signings are ‘pressing monsters’.  Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Barnes, etc.  There’s a disparity between signings and philosophy. 

[STM]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I suspect you’re probably right, but I do also think that Howe is a better ‘thinker’ of the game than he’s often given credit for.

 

What’s odd to me is that he hasn’t built a ‘pressing’ squad.  Other than Gordon, I don’t think any of his big money signings are ‘pressing monsters’.  Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Barnes, etc.  There’s a disparity between signings and philosophy. 

I agree.

 

I think Tonali perhaps has that pressing in him. I'd say Barnes and even Hall aren't that type.

 

Isak is the opposite of what we need and it's a problem because he's also world class. If I was a ruthless cunt, I'd sell him and sign someone like Delap. He won't score more goals but the team might function better. We'd also have way more PSR wriggle room.

 

Before anyone jumps on me, I love Isak and don't want to lose him but it's an issue.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, STM said:

I agree.

 

I think Tonali perhaps has that pressing in him. I'd say Barnes and even Hall aren't that type.

 

Isak is the opposite of what we need and it's a problem because he's also world class. If I was a ruthless cunt, I'd sell him and sign someone like Delap. He won't score more goals but the team might function better. We'd also have way more PSR wriggle room.

 

Before anyone jumps on me, I love Isak and don't want to lose him but it's an issue.

Yeah, you’re right.  Isak is the most talented player I’ve ever seen in B&W play centre forward (I never saw the man in my profile picture play no.9 ‎).  But he isn’t built for our manager’s preferred style of play.

 

It sticks in the craw the idea of the lad being moved on, mind.  He’s the only player I’ve seen who could be a ‘generational talent’.  I’d rather Howe evolved and we play a style suited to him - but i suspect it is either one or the other …

[Abacus]

It could be that we adopted a pressing style at first with the players we had, who might not all have been very good, but could at least run around. As we've added players like Bruno or Tonali, we've tried to shift the playing style, but landed somewhere in the middle so far, and I'm discounting much of last season because of injuries and Tonali's ban.

 

Or, it could be that we just bought good players opportunistically, failed to sign a few we wanted which has left us unbalanced (Botman's injury has been huge) and just haven't found a way to make it all work yet, notwithstanding we're mid table anyway.

 

Or it could be that after a less than perfect pre-season, we've played a lot better in the last few games, the results haven't yet followed and there is an overreaction to a defeat away to Chelsea that almost everyone expected us to lose or be battered in anyway.

[STM]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yeah, you’re right.  Isak is the most talented player I’ve ever seen in B&W play centre forward (I never saw the man in my profile picture play no.9 ‎).  But he isn’t built for our manager’s preferred style of play.

 

It sticks in the craw the idea of the lad being moved on, mind.  He’s the only player I’ve seen who could be a ‘generational talent’.  I’d rather Howe evolved and we play a style suited to him - but i suspect it is either one or the other …

 

I think there are some workarounds but they involve Isak not leading the line. If we had Wilson available, Isak could slot into the number 10, for the purpose of Wilson pressing the ball. Wouldn't be a popular solution though.

 

We could also try and train Isak to press with more intensity. Right now it feels like he might as well not bother pressing because of how ineffective it is.

[r0cafella]

Sell isak and replacing him with Delap is peak NO. 

[JEToon]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Sell isak and replacing him with Delap is peak NO. 

 

If that’s the solution to making an Eddie Howe style of play work, Howe is a problem. 

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Sell isak and replacing him with Delap is peak NO. 

😀

 

It is a bit - but I think STM is right; Isak is unsuited to a high press style, and is too fragile for it

 

There may only be two options available, and both would have been unthinkable a short while ago

 

Gun to my head, I’m probably taking new manager and Isak staying.  But it very much would be gun to my head.

[r0cafella]

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

😀

 

It is a bit - but I think STM is right; Isak is unsuited to a high press style, and is too fragile for it

 

There may only be two options available, and both would have been unthinkable a short while ago

 

Gun to my head, I’m probably taking new manager and Isak staying.  But it very much would be gun to my head.

A high press shouldnt be the sole focus of play, competent and capable teams set pressing traps and funnel play to certain areas of the pitch and when it back in those areas. The fact we default to doesn't run enough is pretty dire. 

 

If you have a world class player which we know we do the manager should be looking to get the most out of him by employing tactics which suits him not binning him off for some inferior because he runs a bit. 

[SUPERTOON]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

😀

 

It is a bit - but I think STM is right; Isak is unsuited to a high press style, and is too fragile for it

 

There may only be two options available, and both would have been unthinkable a short while ago

 

Gun to my head, I’m probably taking new manager and Isak staying.  But it very much would be gun to my head.

I don’t think it would be a particularly difficult choice. If a manager can’t get the best out of a world class player it’s says more about them than the player imo.

[KaKa]

54 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It absolutely broke our squad last year.  We’ve got too many injury-prone players to actually play like that for an extended period.

 

We needed to evolve into a different playing style - spunking lots of money usually allows you to do that.  As yet, we haven’t evolved.  I’m fully prepared to give Howe time to evolve the style - though to date there’s been little indication that he will. 

 

I would have hoped this could be helped by leaning on someone like Bunce's expertise with him now coming in.

 

And figuring out a different type of training approach or schedule in order to limit the amount of injuries while playing our original style.

 

I think trying to change the style completely with the players we have isn't going to work out well, as we've seen so far, and having to then bring in a whole new set of players just to achieve a new style seems a bit drastic, and will be difficult to do in our financial position.

 

Really wish they'd figure this thing out because that style we were playing before was devastating opponents and causing them so many problems.

[Shearergol]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It absolutely broke our squad last year.  We’ve got too many injury-prone players to actually play like that for an extended period.

 

We needed to evolve into a different playing style - spunking lots of money usually allows you to do that.  As yet, we haven’t evolved.  I’m fully prepared to give Howe time to evolve the style - though to date there’s been little indication that he will. 

 

I thought we just got loads of freak injuries? It was only after those that the niggles started appearing because players had to play too much? Barnes, Targett, Anderson, Burn off the top of my head all got what you would consider non-standard injuries.

[TRon]

29 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I suspect you’re probably right, but I do also think that Howe is a better ‘thinker’ of the game than he’s often given credit for.

 

What’s odd to me is that he hasn’t built a ‘pressing’ squad.  Other than Gordon, I don’t think any of his big money signings are ‘pressing monsters’.  Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Barnes, etc.  There’s a disparity between signings and philosophy. 

 

Tbh, my impression is that during Staveley's time here, Howe pretty much got what he wanted in players, seems that if it was a player we really liked - examples being Gordon and Barnes - we would chase them over prolonged periods of time, even if there was no pressing need in that position. It's one of the reasons the squad is imbalanced. So if we aren't signing players suited to Howe's preferred style, then either he doesn't know what he needs, or there's a disconnect somewhere between the CEO and him.

[Abacus]

1 minute ago, SUPERTOON said:

I don’t think it would be a particularly difficult choice. If a manager can’t get the best out of a world class player it’s says more about them than the player imo.

Personally, I don't think that's the choice. Isak has had chances and fluffed them this season due to being rusty and / or injured. That's not Howe's fault.

 

Previous to that, he's been banging them in when fit, so he is normally deadly in a Howe team. Find this debate a bit strange, but hey. That's the beauty of a forum.

[nufc4eva]

We can't high press that effectively with current back 4 either, Schar isn't looking great, Dan burn has the pace of a snail so if they push up to squeeze midfield they can't get back, look at how Jackson just turned them. I think having 2 midfielders alternating sitting deeper and a front 4 (1 up front, 3 behind) and getting them to press would be more effective. Pressing slightly deeper but less gaps for them to break through.

 

Normally with Howe we have a bad run then all of a sudden become unbeatable for a run of games so hoping that happens but hard to see it right now. That right wing needs sorted as well to hurt teams as we look really shit going forward there. 

 

Another thing would be sitting deeper and using Barnes, Isak, Joelinton runs to counter diagnolly as well know they have that in them but needs a Schar or Bruno pass to unlock

[TRon]

8 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

 

 

 

A high press shouldnt be the sole focus of play, competent and capable teams set pressing traps and funnel play to certain areas of the pitch and when it back in those areas. The fact we default to doesn't run enough is pretty dire. 

 

If you have a world class player which we know we do the manager should be looking to get the most out of him by employing tactics which suits him not binning him off for some inferior because he runs a bit. 

 

 

I don't know if I mentioned this already, but Maresca's interview after the game really stuck in my head. He criticised his own players for lack of patience which turned the game into "basketball". In one way you could count that as a success for Howe because it's an admission that we imposed our game on them. But on the other hand we are often coming out losers in these exchanges as some of our players can't cope with the high speed turnovers. So yeah, the players don't really seem comfortable with the tactics. They certainly aren't executing them effectively.

[The College Dropout]

Isak can press - but he can only do it for an hour.

[Lotus]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Isak can press - but he can only do it for an hour.

I also think it takes that bit of spark out his legs that allows him to do something special.

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

I don't know if I mentioned this already, but Maresca's interview after the game really stuck in my head. He criticised his own players for lack of patience which turned the game into "basketball". In one way you could count that as a success for Howe because it's an admission that we imposed our game on them. But on the other hand we are often coming out losers in these exchanges as some of our players can't cope with the high speed turnovers. So yeah, the players don't really seem comfortable with the tactics. They certainly aren't executing them effectively.

We don't look as fit, strong and motivated as we should.

[Mahoneys Tache]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

We don't look as fit, strong and motivated as we should.

Maybe toned down the training to avoid all the injuries. 

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Isak can press - but he can only do it for an hour.

So this is a big question mark that needs to be resolved imo. Is it he/we as a team press in a manner which isn't efficient? Is it a lack of application on his part? Is it poor strength and condition preparing?