Eddie Howe

[Wallsendmag]

11 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I more-or-less agree with everything you've said there, I just think there's plenty of 'excuses' (to use your word) for why we might not finish in Europe again, should that happen. It's a very difficult league to be successful in for lots of reasons. I do accept that it might not fly with the owners, depending on what their ambitions are. 

 

We finished 7th last season btw; a point at Stamford Bridge away from European football. Fuck, if Coventry's legitimate winner in the FA Cup semi counted, even then we'd be in Europe now. Such were the fine margins. I think it's harsh to summarise last season as us going backwards when it was basically impossible to improve on 22/23. We were actually really unlucky tbh. 

 

Agree we were very unlucky last season. Injuries, the penalty farce in Paris, plus what you've mentioned.

 

However this season hasn't been a bad luck story, it's just been bang average, results and performances.

 

There were plenty of legitimate reasons for last seasons downturn but there isn't for what's happened so far this season.

 

I also think that losing his 2 biggest allies in Amanda and Mehrdad might be telling.

[timeEd32]

3 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It is a lot yes, but it gets referenced like it was terrible spend, and it wasn't 

 

In terms of player scouting it wasn't and that has been true of almost every player we've brought in. That has been our saving grace.

 

In terms of financial management it was somewhere between reckless and completely idiotic.

 

Where the debate can live on forever is was each of those players the right one in the right position at the right time.

 

The problem is all of three of these things get continually mixed together and people just talk past each other.

[JEToon]

7 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

In terms of player scouting it wasn't and that has been true of almost every player we've brought in. That has been our saving grace.

 

In terms of financial management it was somewhere between reckless and completely idiotic.

 

Where the debate can live on forever is was each of those players the right one in the right position at the right time.

 

The problem is all of three of these things get continually mixed together and people just talk past each other.

 

I can't go this level of hyperbole, I know people think going incredibly over the top on their point think it adds value to their point, but it really doesn't. 

 

We had a paper thin squad with a serious lack of quality when it came to home grown English players which would have been detrimental to our squad when it came to the Champions League. 

 

We added two fullbacks who will serve us for likely the best part of 10 years, and signed a by league standards, relatively cheap proven English player who has been, and will continue to be more than serviceable as part of our squad. 

 

We signed an Italian international for a fee that most would have said was exceptional value at the time relative to what comparable players of his talent move for. 

 

We have since sold a player for a profit of about 30 million who was signed in that window. 

 

The notion those transactions are reckless is hyperbolic nonsense 

 

This notion we are going to be where we want to be by simply making bargain bin basement additions some seem to cling to as a comfort blanket that we can beat PSR, is I am afraid not reality, we have to add quality players and they will cost money 

 

We are trying to thread a very thin needle, literally as a consequence of the leagues choice to try and keep us nailed to the floor, none of this was ever going to be as simple a process as some seem to think. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by JEToon

[timeEd32]

1 minute ago, JEToon said:

 

I can't go this level of hyperbole, I know people think going incredibly over the top on their point think it adds value to their point, but it really doesn't. 

 

We had a paper thin squad with a serious lack of quality when it came to home grown English players which would have been detrimental to our squad when it came to the Champions League. 

 

We added two fullbacks who will serve us for likely the best part of 10 years, and signed a by league standards, relatively cheap proven English player who has been, and will continue to be more than serviceable as part of our squad. 

 

We signed an Italian international for a fee that most would have said was exceptional value at the time relative to what comparable players of his talent move for. 

 

We have since sold a player for a profit of about 30 million who was signed in that window. 

 

The notion those transactions are reckless is hyperbolic nonsense 

 

This notion we are going to be where we want to be by simply making bargain bin basement additions some seem to cling to as a comfort blanket that we can beat PSR, is I am afraid not reality, we have to add quality players and they will cost money 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, but it's not. You're still talking about the quality of the players, which I am not at all disagreeing with.

 

But as we found out in June we were spending significant money that we didn't have to spend. Now we may or may not have had a much better plan at the time to balance our PSR situation. Ashworth leaving clearly left a gap, maybe we had reason to believe Bruno was as good as gone, maybe we thought some sponsorships were coming that didn't. Maybe, maybe, maybe. The fact is we had to panic sell two players and add to our costs in the process with an absolutely useless player to avoid a points deduction. I don't think it's hyperbole to describe that as reckless at best.

[Erikse]

13 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

I can't go this level of hyperbole, I know people think going incredibly over the top on their point think it adds value to their point, but it really doesn't. 

 

We had a paper thin squad with a serious lack of quality when it came to home grown English players which would have been detrimental to our squad when it came to the Champions League. 

 

We added two fullbacks who will serve us for likely the best part of 10 years, and signed a by league standards, relatively cheap proven English player who has been, and will continue to be more than serviceable as part of our squad. 

 

We signed an Italian international for a fee that most would have said was exceptional value at the time relative to what comparable players of his talent move for. 

 

We have since sold a player for a profit of about 30 million who was signed in that window. 

 

The notion those transactions are reckless is hyperbolic nonsense 

 

This notion we are going to be where we want to be by simply making bargain bin basement additions some seem to cling to as a comfort blanket that we can beat PSR, is I am afraid not reality, we have to add quality players and they will cost money 

 

We are trying to thread a very thin needle, literally as a consequence of the leagues choice to try and keep us nailed to the floor, none of this was ever going to be as simple a process as some seem to think. 

 

 

 

 

I also thought that Tonali was a brilliant signing at the time, even though I didn't know much about him. His actual skill level doesn't really matter though, as long as he's basically being used as a £55m squad player, rumoured to be on like £200.000 per week. I don't doubt that he's our highest paid player, most definelty in the top 3. He's our 4th (or even 5th) choice in the midfield atm.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Erikse

[JEToon]

Just now, timeEd32 said:

 

Sorry, but it's not. You're still talking about the quality of the players, which I am not at all disagreeing with.

 

But as we found out in June we were spending significant money that we didn't have to spend. Now we may or may not have had a much better plan at the time to balance our PSR situation. Ashworth leaving clearly left a gap, maybe we had reason to believe Bruno was as good as gone, maybe we thought some sponsorships were coming that didn't. Maybe, maybe, maybe. The fact is we had to panic sell two players and add to our costs in the process with an absolutely useless player to avoid a points deduction. I don't think it's hyperbole to describe that as reckless at best.

 

But the quality and use of the player is relevant and it was money we did need to spend, we had to have a form of squad to account for the volume of games we would play, the spend was fine, the ability to move players on since was a greater issue 

[JEToon]

5 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I also thought that Tonali was a brilliant signing at the time, even though I didn't know much about him. His actual skill level doesn't really matter though, as long as he's basically being used as a £55m squad player, rumoured to be on like £200.000 per week. I don't doubt that he's our highest paid player, most definelty in the top 3. He's our 4th (or even 5th) choice atm.

 

 

 

 

It's a bit silly to say a football players skill level doesn't matter when it so patently is of relevance. He also does feature quite heavily in most games we play, he isn't simply some bench warmer. 

 

 

[HaydnNUFC]

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

We had a paper thin squad with a serious lack of quality when it came to home grown English players which would have been detrimental to our squad when it came to the Champions League. 

 

 

Granted.

 

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

We added two fullbacks who will serve us for likely the best part of 10 years

 

 

Agree.

 

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

relatively cheap proven English player who has been, and will continue to be more than serviceable as part of our squad. 

 

 

£40m isn't relatively cheap imo, especially when margins for us are so fine given how poor we've been at selling thus far. And £40m on an alleged squad player that played in a position that we already had players who could either play there or do a decent job there, whereas the opposite flank has been neglected for 7 and a half years (at the time of signing, 6) isn't also an intelligent use of £40m either imo. Whether Barnes is happy to be squad player at 26 is another thing. Barnes isn't a bad player by any stretch but the money spent on him could've been far better utilised, especially when now looking at his game time and number of starts when he's been available 18 months on. And looking at the RW.

 

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

We signed an Italian international for a fee that most would have said was exceptional value at the time relative to what comparable players of his talent move for. 

 

 

Who the manager has so far not been able to get him into his team. £55m on a player that sits on the bench or is regularly substituted nigh on every week isn't 'exceptional value'.

 

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

We have since sold a player for a profit of about 30 million who was signed in that window. 

 

 

True.

 

20 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

The notion those transactions are reckless is hyperbolic nonsense 

 

This notion we are going to be where we want to be by simply making bargain bin basement additions some seem to cling to as a comfort blanket that we can beat PSR, is I am afraid not reality, we have to add quality players and they will cost money 

 

We are trying to thread a very thin needle, literally as a consequence of the leagues choice to try and keep us nailed to the floor, none of this was ever going to be as simple a process as some seem to think. 

 

 

They look reckless at present given the frantic summer attempting to meet PSR which meant we had to sell two players that the club didn't want to.

 

We do. Especially ones that can get into and improve the starting 11 in necessary positions.

 

Yep and we haven't been managing it very well.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by HaydnNUFC

[Erikse]

3 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It's a bit silly to say a football players skill level doesn't matter when it so patently is of relevance. He also does feature quite heavily in most games we play, he isn't simply some bench warmer. 

 

 

 

You're pretending to not get my point. Ofcourse his skill level matters to some degree, but do you think paying £55m + £200k per week for our 5th choice midfielder is great business? Because in your post you made it sound like a fantastic signing, which atm just looks silly.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Erikse

[JEToon]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

You're pretending to not get my point. Ofcourse his skill matters, but do you think paying £55m + £200k per week for our 5th choice midfielder is great business? Because in your post you made it sound like a fantastic signing, which atm just looks silly.

 

I'm not, I do get your point, he isn't our 5th choice midfielder, he plays for us quite often. 

 

I think there is an element of echo chamber when it comes to Tonali to the point some convince themselves he barely plays, but it's not been the case this season, he features quite prominently in most games 

[Erikse]

3 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

I'm not, I do get your point, he isn't our 5th choice midfielder, he plays for us quite often. 

 

I think there is an element of echo chamber when it comes to Tonali to the point some convince themselves he barely plays, but it's not been the case this season, he features quite prominently in most games 

 

Howe currently prefers Willock, Joelinton, Bruno and Longstaff over him in midfield. Him getting 30 minutes each game is indicates that it was a bad singing. It can still change, but it's hard to not lose patience. Judging by price and wages he's supposed to be a key player.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by Erikse

[La Parka]

 

It's going to happen. 

[Myleftboot]

4 hours ago, KaKa said:

Considering when Bruno joined he was played further forward, and was much more influential as far as scoring and assisting, I just don't understand why we don't do that more when the team is struggling to be more incisive.

 

Very very disappointing.

Yeah Shelvey was the ‘quarterback’ who sat in front of the back four. Worked a treat to be fair,kept us up.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Fucking Harvey Barnes. If it wasn't for him, we'd be fine.

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

Howe currently prefers Willock, Joelinton, Bruno and Longstaff over him in midfield. Him getting 30 minutes each game is indicating that it was a bad singing. It can still change, but it's hard to not lose patience.

 

He's not getting 30 minutes each game, his average for the season has been closer to 50 minutes a game, factoring in his return from a long time off and late start to the season and lack of a true preseason it's not a great shock his minutes are slightly down relative to others, he doesn't simply sit on the bench 

 

In a league where sides throw all subs on the park most games, yes, players will in this day and age be down from averaging 90 minutes a game, be subbed and sit on the bench to start games. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by JEToon

[Lush Vlad]

6 minutes ago, La Parka said:

 

It's going to happen. 

I fucking hope not. That would be terrible. 

[HaydnNUFC]

7 minutes ago, La Parka said:

 

It's going to happen. 

 

Please, no.

[Erikse]

1 minute ago, JEToon said:

 

He's not getting 30 minutes each game, his average for the season has been closer to 50 minutes a game, factoring in his return from a long time off and late start to the season and lack of a true preseason it's not a great shock his minutes are slightly down relative to others, he doesn't simply sit on the bench 

 

In a league where sides throw all subs on the park most games, yes, players will in this day and age be down from averaging 90 minutes a game 

 

My use of "currently" was meant to mean right now. I guess next weekend will be quite telling. He might make changes after a performance like that.

[JEToon]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

My use of "currently" was meant to mean right now. I guess next weekend will be quite telling. He might make changes after a performance like that.

 

We aren't playing right now.  I expect he will make changes yes, football is a squad game, managers rarely simply run the same 11 into the ground for 90 minutes each week. 

[TRon]

37 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Agree we were very unlucky last season. Injuries, the penalty farce in Paris, plus what you've mentioned.

 

However this season hasn't been a bad luck story, it's just been bang average, results and performances.

 

There were plenty of legitimate reasons for last seasons downturn but there isn't for what's happened so far this season.

 

I also think that losing his 2 biggest allies in Amanda and Mehrdad might be telling.

 

Looking at the team yesterday and the subs, I was thinking to myself, that is one hell of a strong bench. Not many teams could boast Tonali, Barnes, Wilson and Almiron on theirs, that's for sure. You could write it off as a bad day, but we've had far too many already this season.

 

There's still time to turn it around with everyone beating everyone, but we can't afford to be losing to too many shit teams second half of the season. The teams that qualify for Europe will be the ones who can figure out a consistent and effective style of play.

[Erikse]

5 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

We aren't playing right now.  I expect he will make changes yes, football is a squad game, managers rarely simply run the same 11 into the ground for 90 minutes each week. 

 

True, but Howe isn't known to rotate all that much either. He often prefers to stick with the same team. A bad performance could ofcourse change it.

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Do you think the money we spent then had zero impact on PSR that we whinge about all the time? Do you think the two players whom cost the most money yet the manager does not regularly pick to be in his starting XI 18 months on have been good buys? Do you think those signings have improved the team from 2022-23?

 

We've been over this before like you say so I won't labour the point, but in summary my view is that the 23/24 summer window was a good one, which was completely undermined by not supplementing it in 24/25. The jury's out on Tonali but the rest were all good signings. 

 

PSR is a cunt, btw. It shouldn't exist. It's not a minor inconvenience which we whinge about, as if our problems are of our own making. It's inherently keeping us at arms length. 

[KaKa]

3 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

Bruno played at the base of midfield in the 4th place season despite Shelvey being here for the first half of that

 

When Shelvey was in the first team with Bruno he played at the base with Bruno higher up.

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

We've been over this before like you say so I won't labour the point, but in summary my view is that the 23/24 summer window was a good one, which was completely undermined by not supplementing it in 24/25. The jury's out on Tonali but the rest were all good signings. 

 

PSR is a cunt, btw. It shouldn't exist. It's not a minor inconvenience which we whinge about, as if our problems are of our own making. It's inherently keeping us at arms length. 

 

We knew about the rules from the outset and haven't managed it well though, imo. We've been poor sellers since the takeover and that the recruitment strategy was criticised by the current DOF in public should speak enough volumes, not excusing the shambles of a summer window we've just had.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2024 by HaydnNUFC

[timeEd32]

40 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

We've been over this before like you say so I won't labour the point, but in summary my view is that the 23/24 summer window was a good one, which was completely undermined by not supplementing it in 24/25. The jury's out on Tonali but the rest were all good signings. 

 

PSR is a cunt, btw. It shouldn't exist. It's not a minor inconvenience which we whinge about, as if our problems are of our own making. It's inherently keeping us at arms length. 

 

The two are inextricably linked though. We sold two players, bought a useless keeper above his market value, and no one else because of how much we spent and the lack of sales the previous summer/January.