Eddie Howe

[WideopenMag]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Liverpool have bad seasons with injuries.  It happens. They play a high press game but have a bigger squad, a battle hardened squad. And Klopp rotates based on minutes. He says he has to do it even if the game state doesn’t suit. 
 

At some point Howe needs to rotate for the sake of fitness. But he’s not there just yet. He will learn. 
 

If not for injuries. He rotates midfield and attack tbf to him.  With more talented players, we become a little more possession based.

 

 

 Tonali isn’t Bruno on the ball but his greater quality on the ball than Joelinton or Longstaff helps us there.  Even Willock is better on the ball than what we’ve been putting out. I think we can keep our identity and just evolve the style with better players and better depth. 

 

 

 

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

[Holmesy]

11 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

Midfield forward he doesn't, but he has three alternative fullbacks on the bench and has done for weeks. That's what myself and others are getting at. We've been calling for Trippier to be given a rest because he's vital to our play, he hasn't been and he's been individually responsible for probably 4 of the recent 7 goals we've conceded. No one is getting on his case, everyone is just shouting 'fatigue' but he continues to start every game and normally sees out 90 minutes, which means he'll be constantly fatigued. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Holmesy]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

In hindsight though, starting Trippier against Everton was a bad decision (or at least leaving him on as long as he did). Would Krafth have faired any worse?

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Holmesy

[WideopenMag]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

Think it's harsh he did rotate in the league cup, he played Dummet and Lascelles together at centre half vs City and has played Hall also. There's the possibility he just doesn't think Hall is there yet, I'm sure if he thought he was capable he would be getting more minutes. I do agree it was odd not to take Trippier off yesterday when he subbed Livromento. But generally I don't think we've had a great opportunity to rotate at all.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

Think it's harsh he did rotate in the league cup, he played Dummet and Lascelles together at centre half vs City and has played Hall also. There's the possibility he just doesn't think Hall is there yet, I'm sure if he thought he was capable he would be getting more minutes. I do agree it was odd not to take Trippier off yesterday when he subbed Livromento. But generally I don't think we've had a great opportunity to rotate at all.

I don't think any of us believe Hall is ready yet, but it wouldn't be a like-for-like swap and it wouldn't be a tactical one either. It would be because certain players are clearly knackered and not performing to the high standards they've set, as a result. So give them a rest and accept that for one game we'll be weaker in that position from a skillset POV but better off in fitness. And then in subsequent games we'll have our best player/s back to near full strength. 

Injuries have robbed us of most rotation options, but even in the positions where we have cover, the manager won't rotate and it has blatantly cost us goals.

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

I disagree strongly. Have a look back to some of the posts over the week, some of which were objective but still got shouted down.

 

The only areas we have options to rotate at the moment is fullback really. And given how essential Trippier is to our attacking play, and how much work he is asked to do, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest resting him might've been sensible. 

 

We've certainly been less intense in our pressing but other than that I haven't seen any other tactical tweaks. Have you?

 

I may have missed it, but it just seems like regular forum debate. TCD is regularly debating the pros and cons of Howe's approach for example.

 

I think there is a debate to have whether Trippier could have been rested, but I don't think it would have had too much impact on our results. The exposure and lack of protection of the fullbacks has been as bad, if not worse than the performance of the individual players themselves.

 

With the eye test it looks as though we press less and try to counter from from a mid-block more. Our ball possession is a lot crisper and the forwards look like they are being told to play within themselves and press selectively when the other team have possession. Not massive changes, but we are lot less aggressive and more selective with the press.

[BullyDogs]

lets be honest weve just been well and truly spanked in the last 2 games only the 3rd and 4th times in the last 18 months weve conceded 3 goals and the first since the back end of 21/22 since weve conceded 4. Do any of us really think the results would have been any different if wed played the likes of Dummet, Krafth,Ritchie,Hall and Murphy and brought on Parkinson and Diallo

 

Yes wed have still been beaten but at least the regulars wouldnt have had to play these games and would have been fresh for Milan which now takes on massive importance. Howe is either too stubborn or just has no inclination to rotate and both could be the absolute downfall and derailment of our season. in 3 weeks time we could be sitting mid table out of Europe and out of the Carabao cup and with a huge Banana skin derby on the horizon

 

Rotating in certain games with what we had left could and would have been the better option, yes wed have still lost these games but our away form has been piss poor all season anyway regardless of fatigue or team selection

[WideopenMag]

16 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I don't think any of us believe Hall is ready yet, but it wouldn't be a like-for-like swap and it wouldn't be a tactical one either. It would be because certain players are clearly knackered and not performing to the high standards they've set, as a result. So give them a rest and accept that for one game we'll be weaker in that position from a skillset POV but better off in fitness. And then in subsequent games we'll have our best player/s back to near full strength. 

Injuries have robbed us of most rotation options, but even in the positions where we have cover, the manager won't rotate and it has blatantly cost us goals.

Trippier was absolutely brilliant in the Man United game before Everton, he was MOM for me, key to how we played and wasn't obviously fatigued. So it's only the Spurs game we can really have any criticism for that, seems harsh. Let's see how things go when botman, Burn etc are back.

[Rod]

10 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

lets be honest weve just been well and truly spanked in the last 2 games only the 3rd and 4th times in the last 18 months weve conceded 3 goals and the first since the back end of 21/22 since weve conceded 4. Do any of us really think the results would have been any different if wed played the likes of Dummet, Krafth,Ritchie,Hall and Murphy and brought on Parkinson and Diallo

 

Yes wed have still been beaten but at least the regulars wouldnt have had to play these games and would have been fresh for Milan which now takes on massive importance. Howe is either too stubborn or just has no inclination to rotate and both could be the absolute downfall and derailment of our season. in 3 weeks time we could be sitting mid table out of Europe and out of the Carabao cup and with a huge Banana skin derby on the horizon

 

Rotating in certain games with what we had left could and would have been the better option, yes wed have still lost these games but our away form has been piss poor all season anyway regardless of fatigue or team selection

We hammered Man Utd with Dummett and Hall involved.

[magvicar]

In Eddie I trust.

[BullyDogs]

16 minutes ago, Rod said:

We hammered Man Utd with Dummett and Hall involved.

Then why on earth not rest 2 of our first 11 for them in either of these games weve just been absolutely dogshit in, it doesnt make any logical sense at all

[rgk_lfc]

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

[BullyDogs]

3 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

Difference with Klopp is that hes more ruthless and doesnt have time for sentiment as far as his team goes if its not working he fixes it. Youve reshaped your whole midfield over the summer and you dont look any worse for it at all

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

Difference with Klopp is that hes more ruthless and doesnt have time for sentiment as far as his team goes if its not working he fixes it. Youve reshaped your whole midfield over the summer and you dont look any worse for it at all

 

Does help if you have unlimited amounts of cash to chuck at the midfield and forward line until it works, they've had plenty of duds in there. Not a dog at Klopp either, they're a very well ran club on the whole.

[Rod]

38 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

Then why on earth not rest 2 of our first 11 for them in either of these games weve just been absolutely dogshit in, it doesnt make any logical sense at all

My response was to you saying if the aforementioned players were in the team we would still have been beaten.  Not necessarily.

[The Prophet]

10 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

 

Yep and Howe like it or loathe it, Howe is following the Klopp blueprint almost exactly.

[The Prophet]

 

[The College Dropout]

18 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

Howe has done this too.  Whenever we’ve been off, we’ve bounced back by doing plan A better.  Except away from home where we try a reserved version of Plan A which doesn’t work. I expect him to go back to plan A properly when we have players back. That has been his style to date.  

[BullyDogs]

19 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Does help if you have unlimited amounts of cash to chuck at the midfield and forward line until it works, they've had plenty of duds in there. Not a dog at Klopp either, they're a very well ran club on the whole.

They dont spend as much as City,Chelsea or Man United to be fair. Klopp identifies what he needs and who will do it and goes out and gets them. Allison and VVD were a huge outlay from the Coutinho money but they were the catalyst for their success. Salah,Firmino,Mane and more were all bought for decent fees comparatively

[timeEd32]

I avoid this place after losses and I knew it'd be bad, but wow. The fact we can't lose two games in a row without some people questioning his job and harkening back to Bruce is seriously wtf. Truly over the top even if you ignore the circumstances. 

 

I do agree we've missed some chances to rest players when we've created the opportunity to do so. I don't know why Bruno came on for 25+ minutes or Trippier for 15+ up 3-0 against Man United in the cup. And I really don't know why we waited until 7-0 to take off Bruno against Sheffield United. His hands are tied recently and he's clearly loathe to make changes for rest purposes unless there's a 3+ goal gap in either direction. One of his biggest strengths - his supreme focus on the match at hand - also happens to bring a small weakness, which is some trouble letting up on the gas or letting a game go.

 

[brummie]

Interesting viewing this as an outsider but, and yes I know it’s easy for me to say, it’s a few bad performances and results during an injury crisis, in a season where you’ve got the huge demands of the Champions League added. 
 

it’s new territory for lots of people - least of all your manager. 

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, BullyDogs said:

They dont spend as much as City,Chelsea or Man United to be fair. Klopp identifies what he needs and who will do it and goes out and gets them. Allison and VVD were a huge outlay from the Coutinho money but they were the catalyst for their success. Salah,Firmino,Mane and more were all bought for decent fees comparatively

 

Aye, their transfers business during the Edwards era was superb.

 

It's still pretty decent, but seems more obnoxious. Lost Mane's goals? Chuck cash at Nunez and Gakpo. Ageing midfield? Go buy Mac Allister, Szoboszlai, Endo and Gravenberch.

[nufc123]

16 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

I avoid this place after losses and I knew it'd be bad, but wow. The fact we can't lose two games in a row without some people questioning his job and harkening back to Bruce is seriously wtf. Truly over the top even if you ignore the circumstances

I dont read on twitter beacuse its shit, and the match thread can be a little heat in the moment, but apart from that is it that much? All I can see in this thread is poeple raising fair questions about our injuries, away form and rotation for the last few pages.

[timeEd32]

1 hour ago, nufc123 said:

I dont read on twitter beacuse its shit, and the match thread can be a little heat in the moment, but apart from that is it that much? All I can see in this thread is poeple raising fair questions about our injuries, away form and rotation for the last few pages.

 

I was just skimming but there seemed to be at least a handful of people commenting about his job, when we can talk about his job, re-opening hiring debates, a mention of the last two games being reminiscent of Bruce, etc. Usernames I recognize so presumably not trolls. I just can't believe how quickly it gets to any of that.