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4 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Same with Klopp at the moment. They'd not be playing if their players were fit.

 

Difference is, they've had one of the best youth setups in years, ours has been neglected and we likely won't see the benefits of any changes at that level in the first team for a few years yet. 

 

 

 

 

Did Gakpo or Mac Allister get injured? The point here is that we didn't make subs on our knackered players. Klopp could've chosen to stick with his players and not sub them.

 

 

Edited by Erikse

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I didn't think PSG was overly negative, at least initially. First half, I thought we went toe-to-toe and shaded it. Second, we quickly ran out of legs and so Howe opted to stick everyone behind the ball. The Chelsea game in the Carabao Cup was managed similarly. 

 

I also didn't think there was all that much wrong with the Dortmund approach at SJP either. Granted, Dortmund were the classier side for the most part but, while we didn't control the game, had more than enough chances to have taken at least a point. I don't think an approach can ever be fundamentally wrong when the margins are that fine. 

 

No way our squad could've coped with Europa League so I didn't mind going out the way we did against Milan. 

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I don't think PSG was negative. There were just no changes when we needed changes.

 

The game wasn't too dissimilar to the Liverpool away game. Except Liverpool scored more goals.

 

We look like a team trying to defend - that doesn't know how to defend. Not the actual defenders - they did a decent job in both games but the entire defensive setup out of possession. 

 

What's become obvious is that we can't play our game without the Joe's at all. Tonali was meant to help with that and we know how that went.

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Based on his brief time here, it's tough to tell how Howe likes to blood youth. 

 

He's kept Anderson and Miley in the squad when they could have been loaned, the latter has definitely played more than he would have due to injury. 

 

Gordon was given minutes when he signed.

 

Livramento has plenty of minutes, again potentially more due to injury, while the Hall transfer seems a bit of a mystery at the moment. 

 

Above anything it seems like he needs to trust the player to implement what he wants before he plays regularly.

 

How was he at Bournemouth?

 

 

Edited by The Prophet

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1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

Based on his brief time here, it's tough to tell how Howe likes to blood youth. 

 

He's kept Anderson and Miley in the squad when they could have been loaned, the latter has definitely played more than he would have due to injury. 

 

Gordon was given minutes when he signed.

 

Livramento has plenty of minutes, again potentially more due to injury, while the Hall transfer seems a bit of a mystery at the moment. 

 

Above anything it seems like he needs to trust the player to implement what he wants before he plays regularly.

It's also hard to tell because of the lack of quality in the squad and youths.

 

I think Anderson was only kept around last season because we didn't have any CM cover. He didn't get enough minutes for his development IMO and would've had even less minutes had Shelvey been fit. It will be interesting to see what we do with him, Miley and Feyenoord lad next season - assuming we fill out the squad. Which I'm not hopeful for.

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FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

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52 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

Absolute waste of time but this was our bench at PSG:

 

Dubravka
Karius
Dummett
Hall
Huntley
Ndiweni
Parkinson

 

The Isak conversation has been done to death but you could be totally sensationalist and argue any of those, including the keepers, would have contributed more than he was able to for the last 10 minutes or so. Any mobile player with lung capacity was worthwhile putting into his position as he could barely move.

 

I’d have also swapped Tino for Hall.

 

It’s all fairly irrelevant as we’ll never know what would have happened and the whole discussion is based on thoughts, feelings and guesswork. 

 

The very small overall point being made is that our approach on Saturday was dreadful and sadly it’s not the first, second or third time we’ve had to witness it this season - all without any success.

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20 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

 

Not directly no, but Liverpool were up against it until he made those substitutions and then they dominated the ET period, resulting in an eventual goal.

 

The freshness of those players coming in, not necessarily their quality, made a huge difference.

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4 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

Not directly no, but Liverpool were up against it until he made those substitutions and then they dominated the ET period, resulting in an eventual goal.

 

The freshness of those players coming in, not necessarily their quality, made a huge difference.


Hmm, not sure but the point remains about their kids being good and their team being generally confident. 
 

Kids are usually not used to fix problems with teams that are struggling. 

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The outcome doesn't matter too much.

 

Klopp used youngsters not proven in a cup final. Howe is hesitant to bring on more proven youngsters (Livra & Hall) in games of less importance. There's a difference in attitudes there. Klopp prioritised energy over experience and ability. That's now Howe's style.

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1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

The outcome doesn't matter too much.

 

Klopp used youngsters not proven in a cup final. Howe is hesitant to bring on more proven youngsters (Livra & Hall) in games of less importance. There's a difference in attitudes there. Klopp prioritised energy over experience and ability. That's now Howe's style.


Yeah, but even that is ignoring the other factors. 
 

It’s nice to use kids when you can but you can’t say one approach is always better than the other. 

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The Liverpool lads bar one were England U18 or U21 internationals.

 

Nobody knows what's going on with Hall, he's obviously good enough to get Premier League minutes, his lack of appearances won't be down to Howe not trusting youth - there's obviously an 'issue' with the player (people can speculate what that is - my guess would be that we're still getting him ready physically, as we saw with Gordon last season). 

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7 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

 

Maybe not, but the pure fact that he made those subs tells me that it's not necessarily as bad of an idea as many made it out to be back in december. Again, I'm referring to some specific arguments that were most commonly used to defend the decisions to not sub. According to the wording of some of the arguments back then, there was no way Klopp should've done what he did, even if their youngsters were better than ours. Simply due to the fact that they had no experience whatsoever, and usually they don't even feauture on the bench. Yet Klopp felt like he had to trust them over his tired on field players in the decisive moments of a final. It wasn't just a league game against Nottingham or Luton.

 

 

Edited by Erikse

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1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

It will be interesting to see what we do with him, Miley and Feyenoord lad next season - assuming we fill out the squad. Which I'm not hopeful for.

 

This is where we potentially need to be ruthless. Europe or not Europe, they're good enough to be back ups, reducing the wages and freeing up capital to make 2 out right signings that are first team XI. Longstaff/Almiron should be moved on, as Anderson/Minteh can do no worse.

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By our standards this season we've been stacked in defence recently, Livramento and Hall being on the bench has absolutely nowt to do with Isak playing too many minutes which is how this conversation started. Says nothing about Howe's faith in youth that he hasn't put a random kid in for Isak or Wilson. Sounds like a bad faith argument. 

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