The College Dropout Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 You’re still forcing the Klopp comparison. And it doesn’t even fit. When people talk of him as being of that level - they are the extremists wishing upon a star. The evidence doesn’t support that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, mouldy_uk said: Nearly 200 more days lost due to injuries than the nearest (Brentford). Over 1000 more days lost versus the teams immediately above us (Wolves and West Ham). "Every team has injuries". Edited February 29 by Interpolic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I’m firmly in the camp that he’ll be here next season, I want him to be here next season and we should only be looking at making a change if next season has the same issues as this one which means we aren’t learning. however next couple of months will be very interesting now he has 5CM and 4 wingers to choose between. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 14 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: You’re still forcing the Klopp comparison. And it doesn’t even fit. When people talk of him as being of that level - they are the extremists wishing upon a star. The evidence doesn’t support that. You're doing that thing again where you think your opinion is absolute and the only correct one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 44 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: If you think he’s our Fergie, you’re the one with the extremist perspective. It’s plenty on here that compare him favourably to Klopp or Guardiola. And there just isn’t the evidence for that at the elite level. The forum is pretty polarised in places, with many keen to paint opposing views in the most histrionic light but: - admitting Howe is struggling this season over a prolonged period =/= you want to pull over the car and kick him out at the first opportunity - recognising the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club =/= you believe he is the adopted Geordie Pep Guardiola Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: You’re still forcing the Klopp comparison. And it doesn’t even fit. When people talk of him as being of that level - they are the extremists wishing upon a star. The evidence doesn’t support that. I'm not forcing it and never have, I only mentioned it because it was talked about above. I have no idea what kind of career trajectory Howe is on. So much depends on ability, but also luck and circumstance, it's impossible to tell. I guess that leads into my second point though. Dortmund are comfortably Germany's second biggest club. Klopp could have easily been sacked or hounded out. In his second season they had Champions League football in their hands, but threw it away in the final two games of the season. If he had, he might not have been the manager he is today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) Klopp wasn't elite either... until he was. Completely ruling out the idea of managers improving, growing or being given the opportunity to prove they are elite. I'm sure there was a German version TCD on a Mainz forum way back when, harping on about Klopp and the errors he'd made. Edited February 29 by STM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 2 minutes ago, The Prophet said: I'm not forcing it and never have, I only mentioned it because it was talked about above. I have no idea what kind of career trajectory Howe is on. So much depends on ability, but also luck and circumstance, it's impossible to tell. I guess that leads into my second point though. Dortmund are comfortably Germany's second biggest club. Klopp could have easily been sacked or hounded out. In his second season they had Champions League football in their hands, but threw it away in the final two games of the season. If he had, he might not have been the manager he is today. This is a great point. Imagine what some of our know it all fans would have done had we lost those moments. Any failure = shit manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 10 minutes ago, Beren said: The forum is pretty polarised in places, with many keen to paint opposing views in the most histrionic light but: - admitting Howe is struggling this season over a prolonged period =/= you want to pull over the car and kick him out at the first opportunity - recognising the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club =/= you believe he is the adopted Geordie Pep Guardiola that last point is plain daft. For all his positives Howe will never be able to rock the turtle neck like Pep can Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Menace said: Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year? Quite possibly yeah. Hate the wanker but he's clearly one of the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 7 minutes ago, Menace said: Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year? Yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 8 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: that last point is plain daft. For all his positives Howe will never be able to rock the turtle neck like Pep can He’s English, he can only do so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 6 minutes ago, Menace said: Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year? That has to be a yes. Probably pushing a title challenge till the last few games. Yes EH is good, but he seems to be a bit slow on picking up obvious errors this season...especially with to Burn who every other team seems to have sussed as the weakest link. Yes we've had injuries, but a large amount of points lost have come down to farcical errors from players who weren't making them last year. When we have brought others in they play like strangers, which suggests a certain amount of favouritism in the squad in that the 'not first 11' don't have a clue how to join in properly with any routines we presumably work on in training Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 We don’t know if Howe will become an ‘elite’ manager or not - we can hope he will, and there are a lot of positive signs that he can, as well as some negative signs that he won’t. The point seems moot to me until he joins that bracket - and we’re the best chance he’s likely to get of breaking into it. He could well ‘grow’ with the club, so I totally understand fans being attracted to that as a notion. I honestly don’t care too much either way - if Howe is here in five years’ time, it’s because he’s successful and won things. If he isn’t, it’s because he wasn’t. I just want to see us win things, and I don’t really care about the narrative around it. My dad is 70 soon and he was a boy when we last won a trophy, and wasn’t born when we last won a domestic one. That’s a ridiculous state of affairs, frankly - Howe has the chance at the moment to write himself into our history books forever (the manager who breaks the duck will always be remembered, whatever follows it). I hope he takes it - I do like him as a person and as a football man. If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us. Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjohnson Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Just now, Gallowgate Toon said: I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us. Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy, Not a good comparison really. They saw they had a weakness creeping in and addressed it....we attempted it but it went badly wrong with Tonali, and to an extent Barnes, then spending what was left on players for the future who despite looking good can barely get a look in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 23 minutes ago, Beren said: The forum is pretty polarised in places, with many keen to paint opposing views in the most histrionic light but: - admitting Howe is struggling this season over a prolonged period =/= you want to pull over the car and kick him out at the first opportunity - recognising the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club =/= you believe he is the adopted Geordie Pep Guardiola I recognise the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club. But there are multiple posters on this very thread trying to claim his career's achievements are comparable to Jurgen Klopp. 24 minutes ago, The Prophet said: I'm not forcing it and never have, I only mentioned it because it was talked about above. I have no idea what kind of career trajectory Howe is on. So much depends on ability, but also luck and circumstance, it's impossible to tell. I guess that leads into my second point though. Dortmund are comfortably Germany's second biggest club. Klopp could have easily been sacked or hounded out. In his second season they had Champions League football in their hands, but threw it away in the final two games of the season. If he had, he might not have been the manager he is today. Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression. The Klopp comparison doesn't work. They do not have the same career or track record (they have similarities in coaching style). 29 minutes ago, STM said: Klopp wasn't elite either... until he was. Completely ruling out the idea of managers improving, growing or being given the opportunity to prove they are elite. I'm sure there was a German version TCD on a Mainz forum way back when, harping on about Klopp and the errors he'd made. I'm not completely ruling it out. I don't have "Howe is elite" as my assumption of his abilities as many here do because I don't think there's evidence for it. I rate him, I think he'll end the season strongly and think we can do very well next season with him at the helm. I'm just not convinced he's the next Fergie or Klopp. This is a balanced take.. it isn't if you think he's the best English manager since Bryan Clough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Menace said: Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year? Klopp couldn’t even get a better Liverpool squad in the top 4 last year, so he would have had no chance getting our squad in the top 4, what Eddie achieved last season getting our squad into the top 4 was miraculous really. It has been shown this season just how much we over achieved last year and that cup draw last night sums up the luck Eddie has had this season. Edited February 29 by Geogaddi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, gjohnson said: Not a good comparison really. They saw they had a weakness creeping in and addressed it....we attempted it but it went badly wrong with Tonali, and to an extent Barnes, then spending what was left on players for the future who despite looking good can barely get a look in You mean they didn't recruit well enough in summer '22 and rather than having a manager be a magician who could make it work they needed another couple of windows to get what they needed? They went from 92 points in 21/22 to 67 in 22/23 despite spending massively on a striker, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 42 minutes ago, STM said: Klopp wasn't elite either... until he was. Completely ruling out the idea of managers improving, growing or being given the opportunity to prove they are elite. I'm sure there was a German version TCD on a Mainz forum way back when, harping on about Klopp and the errors he'd made. Exactly! They all had their tough moments they had to come through, and there would have absolutely been those saying they weren't up to it at the time. Ferguson was one loss from the sack at one point at Man Utd, with fans chanting against him. These are his first few seasons at the club, as big as it is, and having spent money on decent players at the time ... 11th 2nd 12th 13th 6th 2nd And then ultimately winning his first title. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, KaKa said: Exactly! They all had their tough moments they had to come through, and there would have absolutely been those saying they weren't up to it at the time. Ferguson was one loss from the sack at one point at Man Utd, with fans chanting against him. These are his first few seasons at the club, as big as it is, and having spent money on decent players at the time ... 11th 2nd 12th 13th 6th 2nd And then ultimately winning his first title. Famously saved by winning the FA Cup when they finished 13th, of course - no small feat, to which he added English football’s first European trophy post-Heysel the season after, again an impressive feat for an English club at the time. Ferguson also had an extraordinary track record at Aberdeen, so he did have something to point to in terms of quantifiable success - no-one outside the Old Firm has come close since in Scotland, and no Scottish club has won a European trophy post-Ferguson (and Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in a European final was a genuinely impressive achievement). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 18 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said: I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us. Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy, Some great points here man. The Trent getting rinsed defensively was such a major topic of discussion in football every week and he never changed it, even though it kept costing them. In the market he also kept over looking the midfield area to the chagrin of Liverpool supporters, and spending on more and more attacking players where they were pretty well stocked. People would absolutely have been completely losing their heads over these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 58 minutes ago, 54 said: You're doing that thing again where you think your opinion is absolute and the only correct one. It’s fucking infuriating. Talks at people not to them. That sense of superiority is lifting and so misplaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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