Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

47 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

We were chatting about his time at Dortmund to be fair.

Exactly.  
 

So many people regard Howe in a stratosphere that is just unproven. 

[Toon1892]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Exactly.  
 

So many people regard Howe in a stratosphere that is just unproven. 

Or just looking at the facts and using sensible rationale to appraise him?

 

Honest question- where did you expect we’d be right now when Eddie Howe was appointed? Did you think we’d be top 4 every season? Did you think we’d have top 4 one out of the two seasons? Did you think we’d be in the championship?

 

Unproven? He got a team into the champions league with a tiny wage budget. Our wage budget was closer to 20th place than 4th place. That has only happened a handful of times.

[KaKa]

Apparently been mentioned within Chelsea, as a possible option once Pochettino gets the boot.

[Thumbheed]

Ignoring the historic lack of investment in the squad, ignoring the lack of infrastructure, ignoring the shambolic training facilities, ignoring the significant improvement in a large number of the squad, ignoring the unprecedented injuries and absences, ignoring the imprived style of play, ignoring the position we were in when he took over and ignoring the 2 years of CL form, then yes, you'd be right Howe isn't doing as good a job as people are lead to beleive. 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Thumbheed

[Toon1892]

4 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

Ignoring the historic lack of investment in the squad, ignoring the lack of infrastructure, ignoring the shambolic training facilities, ignoring the significant improvement in a large number of the squad, ignoring the unprecedented injuries and absences, ignoring the 2 years of CL form, then yes, you'd be right Howe isn't doing as good a job as people are lead to beleive. 

 

 

 

But but but we aren’t in the top 4 with the 8th highest wage bill and record injuries. He has to go LOL

[Myleftboot]

31 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Apparently been mentioned within Chelsea, as a possible option once Pochettino gets the boot.

Eddie?

[madras]

1 minute ago, Myleftboot said:

Eddie?

TCD.

[Pixelphish]

5 minutes ago, madras said:

TCD.

 

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Toon1892 said:

Or just looking at the facts and using sensible rationale to appraise him?

 

Honest question- where did you expect we’d be right now when Eddie Howe was appointed? Did you think we’d be top 4 every season? Did you think we’d have top 4 one out of the two seasons? Did you think we’d be in the championship?

 

Unproven? He got a team into the champions league with a tiny wage budget. Our wage budget was closer to 20th place than 4th place. That has only happened a handful of times.

I've never claimed we should be top 4 or anything like that so these are all irrelevant questions.

 

Yes he is unproven as an elite-level coach. His highest achievement in the professional game is finishing 4th and a league cup final. His first season with European football led to a collapse in league form.

 

Where's your proof of the bolded? In terms of position, I don't even think that was true under Ashley. Our wage bill would've been around 11th/12th highest in the league. After January last season, our net spend was top 5 in Europe since the takeover. Read this thread - our expenditure to the 2023 accounts is consistently high across wages, amortisation costs. Squad cost = 7th. Wages = 7th. To finish 4th last season, excellent job. We did very well to finish above Spurs & Liverpool (considering Chelsea weren't competitive). If we finish 9th or lower this season... it's a bad season.

 

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1762492756830888268?s=20

 

I expect us to finish 7th/8th because i think we have good players and a good manager. The fixtures are favourable and we are getting players back. Confidence seems shot and the system broken which makes me anxious.

 

And as I've said repeatedly - I don't hold Eddie solely account for successes or failures. The squad and the leadership are also responsible. We did so well last season because everything went in our favour. The transfers were excellent, the coaching was excellent, lucky with injuries. This year, the transfers have been a mixed bag, unlucky with injuries, the coaching has been exposed at times etc.

 

 

Edited March 1 by The College Dropout

[Myleftboot]

8 minutes ago, madras said:

TCD.

 

[The College Dropout]

45 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Apparently been mentioned within Chelsea, as a possible option once Pochettino gets the boot.

They need to let someone clear house. I don't know how that's possible considering FFP. There are a lot of talented players they would need to sell at a amortisation loss.

[lovejoy]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I've never claimed we should be top 4 or anything like that so these are all irrelevant questions.

 

Yes he is unproven as an elite-level coach. His highest achievement in the professional game is finishing 4th and a league cup final. His first season with European football led to a collapse in league form.

 

Where's your proof of the bolded? In terms of position, I don't even think that was true under Ashley. Our wage bill would've been around 11th/12th highest in the league. After January last season, our net spend was top 5 in Europe since the takeover. Read this thread - our expenditure to the 2023 accounts is consistently high across wages, amortisation costs. Squad cost = 7th. Wages = 7th. To finish 4th last season, excellent job. We did very well to finish above Spurs & Liverpool (considering Chelsea weren't competitive). If we finish 9th or lower this season... it's a bad season.

 

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1762492756830888268?s=20

 

I expect us to finish 7th/8th because i think we have good players and a good manager. The fixtures are favourable and we are getting players back. Confidence seems shot and the system broken which makes me anxious.

 

And as I've said repeatedly - I don't hold Eddie solely account for successes or failures. The squad and the leadership are also responsible. We did so well last season because everything went in our favour. The transfers were excellent, the coaching was excellent, lucky with injuries. This year, the transfers have been a mixed bag, unlucky with injuries, the coaching has been exposed at times etc.

 

 

 

How on god's earth do you have so much time to spend on here? Every time i come on there's war and peace from you on another topic.

 

You make HTT look like a one word wonder.

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, lovejoy said:

How on god's earth do you have so much time to spend on here? Every time i come on there's war and peace from you on another topic.

 

You make HTT look like a one word wonder.

I cannot convey how relentless I am as a human being. And lucky.

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I cannot convey how relentless I am as a human being. And lucky.

 

No, really??

 

 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

 

[lovejoy]

9 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

No, really??

 

 

?

[Toon1892]

29 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I've never claimed we should be top 4 or anything like that so these are all irrelevant questions.

 

Yes he is unproven as an elite-level coach. His highest achievement in the professional game is finishing 4th and a league cup final. His first season with European football led to a collapse in league form.

 

Where's your proof of the bolded? In terms of position, I don't even think that was true under Ashley. Our wage bill would've been around 11th/12th highest in the league. After January last season, our net spend was top 5 in Europe since the takeover. Read this thread - our expenditure to the 2023 accounts is consistently high across wages, amortisation costs. Squad cost = 7th. Wages = 7th. To finish 4th last season, excellent job. We did very well to finish above Spurs & Liverpool (considering Chelsea weren't competitive). If we finish 9th or lower this season... it's a bad season.

 

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1762492756830888268?s=20

 

I expect us to finish 7th/8th because i think we have good players and a good manager. The fixtures are favourable and we are getting players back. Confidence seems shot and the system broken which makes me anxious.

 

And as I've said repeatedly - I don't hold Eddie solely account for successes or failures. The squad and the leadership are also responsible. We did so well last season because everything went in our favour. The transfers were excellent, the coaching was excellent, lucky with injuries. This year, the transfers have been a mixed bag, unlucky with injuries, the coaching has been exposed at times etc.

 

 

 

I’m not sure everything went our way last season. We had the 4th highest injuries in the league. Often to key players such as Isak and Wilson. (Key last year). https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/premier-league-injury-table-22-23-liverpool-chelsea-arsenal-man-utd
 

We also had some unfortunate suspensions at key times to Pope and Bruno. 
 

If Isak and Wilson weren’t coming back from injury slightly out of form we would have won that cup final.

 

Proof of bold- I’m a chartered accountant so I just looked at the accounts. But a quick summary which isn’t entirely accurate but still demonstrates the points- https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-wage-bill/

You shouldn’t really look at net spend since the takeover. That only compensated for the lack of net spend under Ashley. As a chartered accountant, the far better measure is gross wage costs to compare budget to budget.

 

The bottom line is Howe has done an incredible job since he took over. I don’t believe there would have been many managers to have been able to do what he has done.

 

Unfortunately fans then set their expectations based on the amazing work he’s done. We’re now back in line this season with our gross wage ranking. (Still pretty amazing given the amount of injuries and fixtures and suspensions we’ve had this season).

 

Stay patient and keep the faith…

[Toon1892]

1 minute ago, Toon1892 said:

I’m not sure everything went our way last season. We had the 4th highest injuries in the league. Often to key players such as Isak and Wilson. (Key last year). https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/premier-league-injury-table-22-23-liverpool-chelsea-arsenal-man-utd
 

We also had some unfortunate suspensions at key times to Pope and Bruno. 
 

If Isak and Wilson weren’t coming back from injury slightly out of form we would have won that cup final.

 

Proof of bold- I’m a chartered accountant so I just looked at the accounts. But a quick summary which isn’t entirely accurate but still demonstrates the points- https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-wage-bill/

You shouldn’t really look at net spend since the takeover. That only compensated for the lack of net spend under Ashley. As a chartered accountant, the far better measure is gross wage costs to compare budget to budget.

 

The bottom line is Howe has done an incredible job since he took over. I don’t believe there would have been many managers to have been able to do what he has done.

 

Unfortunately fans then set their expectations based on the amazing work he’s done. We’re now back in line this season with our gross wage ranking. (Still pretty amazing given the amount of injuries and fixtures and suspensions we’ve had this season).

 

Stay patient and keep the faith…

On this- unless we have bad management at some point we are likely to remain around the league table position of our gross salary spend. We can’t hope for manager miracles every season. It isn’t sustainable or realistic.

 

The board will know this hence why Howe’s position is safe.

 

The only way to break the top 4 consistently is to up the wages but as you know we are currently restricted due to ffp.

 

A new manager isn’t suddenly going to get more out of Ritchie, Dummet, Lascelles, Krafth etc than Howe has.

 

The wider squad, including the bulk of the academy (which wasn’t invested in for 15 years) just isn’t there yet. As a fan base we have to understand this and be patient. 

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

No, really??

 

 

This is free baby.

 

@Toon1892

 

"The wage bills for each club come via FBref, with estimates coming from Capology. In the case of some clubs also, there is limited data out there, meaning some of the figures given are estimates. So, with that being said, GIVEMESPORT have taken a look at the annual wage bills of each Premier League club in order from lowest to highest."

 

These are estimates from Capology.
"Where does Capology get salary data? We source salary data from all over the web, news, social, industry experts, and a network of sources who help us verif.."

 

So based on unreliable data.

 

Kieran gets his data from football clubs official financial accounts. Kieran's data is more reliable than GIVEMESPORT. As an accountant, you should know that.

 

Injuries: Nick Pope played every league game until we confirmed 4th. Bruno G played 40 games last season, 32 in the league. Joelinton 32,  Trippier 38, Burn 38, Botman 36, Schar 36, Willock 35, Almiron 34. We had at least 1 fit of Wood, Isak & Wilson all season and the latter two for the entirety of the run-in.

 

Transfers: Yes net spend doesn't account for the fact we didn't have much saleable assets under Ashley. But we still spent £400m on a squad that had finished 11th-13th the previous 4 seasons. Took a midtable wage budget into the top 7. If you spend £400m well on Wolves + a good manager - they'll compete for Europe too.

 

Again - Howe has done excellently. But we have spent a lot of money on both fees and wages. Like... a lot.

[Toon1892]

Final point on this because I’m probably boring people to death. 
 

Net spend is irrelevant when comparing a clubs expenditure. Given it is never adjusted for inflation. 
 

Net spend is a measure used by the top clubs to stay at the top. If the league was truly fair you would allow the clubs below the top teams to spend to catch up.

 

The only true measure the league could bring in would be to have a salary cap. The same for every club. IE no clubs wage bill is allowed to exceed X million a year. It is then fair for everyone.

 

I understand the teams at the top won’t want this as it would mean the league would become so competitive.

How great would it be though. 20 clubs on an even footing.

 

[Toon1892]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

This is free baby.

 

@Toon1892

 

"The wage bills for each club come via FBref, with estimates coming from Capology. In the case of some clubs also, there is limited data out there, meaning some of the figures given are estimates. So, with that being said, GIVEMESPORT have taken a look at the annual wage bills of each Premier League club in order from lowest to highest."

 

These are estimates from Capology.
"Where does Capology get salary data? We source salary data from all over the web, news, social, industry experts, and a network of sources who help us verif.."

 

So based on unreliable data.

 

Kieran gets his data from football clubs official financial accounts. Kieran's data is more reliable than GIVEMESPORT. As an accountant, you should know that.

 

Injuries: Nick Pope played every league game until we confirmed 4th. Bruno G played 40 games last season, 32 in the league. Joelinton 32,  Trippier 38, Burn 38, Botman 36, Schar 36, Willock 35, Almiron 34. We had at least 1 fit of Wood, Isak & Wilson all season and the latter two for the entirety of the run-in.

 

Transfers: Yes net spend doesn't account for the fact we didn't have much saleable assets under Ashley. But we still spent £400m on a squad that had finished 11th-13th the previous 4 seasons. Took a midtable wage budget into the top 7. If you spend £400m well on Wolves + a good manager - they'll compete for Europe too.

 

Again - Howe has done excellently. But we have spent a lot of money on both fees and wages. Like... a lot.

Did you even read my post? I explained all of that.

[Toon1892]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

This is free baby.

 

@Toon1892

 

"The wage bills for each club come via FBref, with estimates coming from Capology. In the case of some clubs also, there is limited data out there, meaning some of the figures given are estimates. So, with that being said, GIVEMESPORT have taken a look at the annual wage bills of each Premier League club in order from lowest to highest."

 

These are estimates from Capology.
"Where does Capology get salary data? We source salary data from all over the web, news, social, industry experts, and a network of sources who help us verif.."

 

So based on unreliable data.

 

Kieran gets his data from football clubs official financial accounts. Kieran's data is more reliable than GIVEMESPORT. As an accountant, you should know that.

 

Injuries: Nick Pope played every league game until we confirmed 4th. Bruno G played 40 games last season, 32 in the league. Joelinton 32,  Trippier 38, Burn 38, Botman 36, Schar 36, Willock 35, Almiron 34. We had at least 1 fit of Wood, Isak & Wilson all season and the latter two for the entirety of the run-in.

 

Transfers: Yes net spend doesn't account for the fact we didn't have much saleable assets under Ashley. But we still spent £400m on a squad that had finished 11th-13th the previous 4 seasons. Took a midtable wage budget into the top 7. If you spend £400m well on Wolves + a good manager - they'll compete for Europe too.

 

Again - Howe has done excellently. But we have spent a lot of money on both fees and wages. Like... a lot.

Let’s agree to disagree then. If you think it’s sustainable for the 8th highest wage bill to consistently get top 4. I’m not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

[Matt1892]

The logic that we should settle around where our wage bill is in the league, with anything higher being a manager miracle and anything lower is bad management is nonsense.

[Toon1892]

1 minute ago, Matt1892 said:

The logic that we should settle around where our wage bill is in the league, with anything higher being a manager miracle and anything lower is bad management is nonsense.

Why? Over the long term that’s what happens. Welcome to the premier league.

 

Yes we need to increase the wage bill to become more competitive.

 

Generally the teams with the better players finish higher up the table. Generally the better players cost more money on a weekly basis. 
 

It’s how sport works. Sorry to break that to you.

[gbandit]

Battle of 1892