Eddie Howe

[huss9]

2 hours ago, Geogaddi said:

It's actually annoying how much I adore Eddie , been fuming with the last two results but I refuse to blame him which means I have nobody to be angry at.

having no one to be angry awith has meant the last couple of defeats havent had me depressed. 

whereas PSG away....

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

The merits of Howe's approach has been discussed at length without anyone taking "pelters" for it.

 

A few questions if ask off the back of that though. 

 

Do you think we've tried to play differently of late or are we still playing the same ferocious high press every game?

 

Over the last couple of weeks which players would you have brought into the team and for who?

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. If you question Howe's approach - people will call you negative, accuse you of hounding him etc.

 

I think he's tried to tinker the approach, especially away from home. But it doesn't look like working. If we standoff, we invite lots of pressure and the other team can get to our defence pretty easily. Sometimes I wish we defend from a 4-4-2, so we can more effectively block the opposition's build-up.

 

In this position, I'm not critical of Howe's selection. His hands have been tied and rotating for the sake of it at this point is against his MO. As I've said earlier, in earlier matches we've had opportunities to rotate and not taken them. Those games put mileage on Trippier, Bruno et al. But now, it is what it is.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Aiston said:

 

 

Despite what xG says, we absolutely would have lost that Wolves game if Neto didn't get injured. They were tearing us to shreds

 

How Trippier didn't get subbed that game is fucking nuts as well, Howe did just watch and hope without trying to change anything.

 

Aye, if he thinks he has his best guys out there and we are holding on to a result. He's going to stick, not twist. He did the same at PSG.

 

As others have said. This injury crisis has hopefully given him more options going forward but he's still got to show a willingness to take out his fullbacks earlier with the game still in our hands. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by The College Dropout

[Holmesy]

27 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

The merits of Howe's approach has been discussed at length without anyone taking "pelters" for it.

 

A few questions if ask off the back of that though. 

 

Do you think we've tried to play differently of late or are we still playing the same ferocious high press every game?

 

Over the last couple of weeks which players would you have brought into the team and for who?

I disagree strongly. Have a look back to some of the posts over the week, some of which were objective but still got shouted down.

 

The only areas we have options to rotate at the moment is fullback really. And given how essential Trippier is to our attacking play, and how much work he is asked to do, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest resting him might've been sensible. 

 

We've certainly been less intense in our pressing but other than that I haven't seen any other tactical tweaks. Have you?

[nufc123]

27 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye, if he thinks he has his best guys out there and we are holding on to a result. He's going to stick, not twist. 

Burn against Wolves being one of the examples 

[Gallowgate Toon]

43 minutes ago, Minhosa said:

I've seen some folks questioning the impact our style of play has had in relation to injuries etc etc and whether it's played it's part in the significant fatigue we've now got across the team/squad.

 

All very valid to raise as a concern but, you know what, I love the way we play when we get it right.

 

That aggressive press, in your face, physical, positive approach with a pinch of housery. Love it.

 

I'd far rather run these lads into the ground and maintain the approach as change it in the face of adversity/tiredness. The way that many other managers before have done the minute something doesn't work as well or we get a bad run of form.

 

As soon as we've got another few bodies in the door in January and we're able to manage the returning players from injury, we'll be a great watch again during the second half of the season.

 

Howe should stick to his beliefs imho. They've worked so well so far.

 

 

 

Great post. No style of play is foolproof. For all the talk that our style is a reason for injuries, other teams who don't play the same way as us but have also been struggling to keep the majority of players fit. 

 

The natural reaction could be that we should tone it down and become more possession-based. City are obviously a cracking team but I find them and their robotic control very boring on most occasions, personally - I'd much rather watch us at full flight as much as we can. The best way to do that is to continue invest in the squad and academy which is what we're doing.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, nufc123 said:

Burn against Wolves being one of the examples 

We had 70m worth of fullbacks on the bench for 90 minutes that game. At least one of which… is already better than Dan Burn. 
 

Silver lining. Livra has at least earned himself a Howe pre-planned 60-70 minute regular sub-on.  And possibly a starting position. I would love Howe to rotate Livra with Tripps and Burn.  

[nufc123]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

We had 70m worth of fullbacks on the bench for 90 minutes that game. At least one of which… is already better than Dan Burn. 
 

Silver lining. Livra has at least earned himself a Howe pre-planned 60-70 minute regular sub-on.  And possibly a starting position. I would love Howe to rotate Livra with Tripps and Burn.  

Not only better but he was so knackered. He was desperate for a rest 

[The College Dropout]

Liverpool have bad seasons with injuries.  It happens. They play a high press game but have a bigger squad, a battle hardened squad. And Klopp rotates based on minutes. He says he has to do it even if the game state doesn’t suit. 
 

At some point Howe needs to rotate for the sake of fitness. But he’s not there just yet. He will learn. 
 

If not for injuries. He rotates midfield and attack tbf to him.  With more talented players, we become a little more possession based.

 

 

 Tonali isn’t Bruno on the ball but his greater quality on the ball than Joelinton or Longstaff helps us there.  Even Willock is better on the ball than what we’ve been putting out. I think we can keep our identity and just evolve the style with better players and better depth. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by The College Dropout

[BullyDogs]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Liverpool have bad seasons with injuries.  It happens. They play a high press game but have a bigger squad, a battle hardened squad. And Klopp rotates based on minutes. He says he has to do it even if the game state doesn’t suit. 
 

At some point Howe needs to rotate for the sake of fitness. But he’s not there just yet. He will learn. 
 

If not for injuries. He rotates midfield and attack tbf to him.  With more talented players, we become a little more possession based.

 

 

 Tonali isn’t Bruno on the ball but his greater quality on the ball than Joelinton or Longstaff helps us there.  Even Willock is better on the ball than what we’ve been putting out. I think we can keep our identity and just evolve the style with better players and better depth. 

 

 

 

 Eventually all our midfield bar Bruno and Tonali need upgrading if we are wanting to compete at the top. Joelinton is a bruiser in midfield but is techincally pretty poor and his goal return is not the best from a midfield standpoint. Willock is far better technically and longstaff isnt of the level required for an elite team. We need to have 2 elite midfielders on the pitch at all times just like the rest of the top teams have and in reserve folks that are not only technically good but tactically astute

 

[WideopenMag]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Liverpool have bad seasons with injuries.  It happens. They play a high press game but have a bigger squad, a battle hardened squad. And Klopp rotates based on minutes. He says he has to do it even if the game state doesn’t suit. 
 

At some point Howe needs to rotate for the sake of fitness. But he’s not there just yet. He will learn. 
 

If not for injuries. He rotates midfield and attack tbf to him.  With more talented players, we become a little more possession based.

 

 

 Tonali isn’t Bruno on the ball but his greater quality on the ball than Joelinton or Longstaff helps us there.  Even Willock is better on the ball than what we’ve been putting out. I think we can keep our identity and just evolve the style with better players and better depth. 

 

 

 

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

[Holmesy]

11 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

But he's had no one to rotate with. This would only be relevant if we were in this situation and he had options on the bench to turn too. He hasn't.

Midfield forward he doesn't, but he has three alternative fullbacks on the bench and has done for weeks. That's what myself and others are getting at. We've been calling for Trippier to be given a rest because he's vital to our play, he hasn't been and he's been individually responsible for probably 4 of the recent 7 goals we've conceded. No one is getting on his case, everyone is just shouting 'fatigue' but he continues to start every game and normally sees out 90 minutes, which means he'll be constantly fatigued. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Holmesy]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

In hindsight though, starting Trippier against Everton was a bad decision (or at least leaving him on as long as he did). Would Krafth have faired any worse?

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Holmesy

[WideopenMag]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

He’s had opportunities at fullback.  He’s had opportunities in the league cup. You feel he could have made earlier subs in games. 

 

But you are right in that injuries have largely robbed him of that ability in recent weeks. 
 

 

My view is Eddie could have rotated better earlier in the season.  And I think he could be more proactive with the bench.  But largely his hands are now tied and he’s made most of the right decisions in terms of starting lineups.  Starting Krafth at Everton would not have been a good idea imo.  

Think it's harsh he did rotate in the league cup, he played Dummet and Lascelles together at centre half vs City and has played Hall also. There's the possibility he just doesn't think Hall is there yet, I'm sure if he thought he was capable he would be getting more minutes. I do agree it was odd not to take Trippier off yesterday when he subbed Livromento. But generally I don't think we've had a great opportunity to rotate at all.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

Think it's harsh he did rotate in the league cup, he played Dummet and Lascelles together at centre half vs City and has played Hall also. There's the possibility he just doesn't think Hall is there yet, I'm sure if he thought he was capable he would be getting more minutes. I do agree it was odd not to take Trippier off yesterday when he subbed Livromento. But generally I don't think we've had a great opportunity to rotate at all.

I don't think any of us believe Hall is ready yet, but it wouldn't be a like-for-like swap and it wouldn't be a tactical one either. It would be because certain players are clearly knackered and not performing to the high standards they've set, as a result. So give them a rest and accept that for one game we'll be weaker in that position from a skillset POV but better off in fitness. And then in subsequent games we'll have our best player/s back to near full strength. 

Injuries have robbed us of most rotation options, but even in the positions where we have cover, the manager won't rotate and it has blatantly cost us goals.

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

I disagree strongly. Have a look back to some of the posts over the week, some of which were objective but still got shouted down.

 

The only areas we have options to rotate at the moment is fullback really. And given how essential Trippier is to our attacking play, and how much work he is asked to do, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest resting him might've been sensible. 

 

We've certainly been less intense in our pressing but other than that I haven't seen any other tactical tweaks. Have you?

 

I may have missed it, but it just seems like regular forum debate. TCD is regularly debating the pros and cons of Howe's approach for example.

 

I think there is a debate to have whether Trippier could have been rested, but I don't think it would have had too much impact on our results. The exposure and lack of protection of the fullbacks has been as bad, if not worse than the performance of the individual players themselves.

 

With the eye test it looks as though we press less and try to counter from from a mid-block more. Our ball possession is a lot crisper and the forwards look like they are being told to play within themselves and press selectively when the other team have possession. Not massive changes, but we are lot less aggressive and more selective with the press.

[BullyDogs]

lets be honest weve just been well and truly spanked in the last 2 games only the 3rd and 4th times in the last 18 months weve conceded 3 goals and the first since the back end of 21/22 since weve conceded 4. Do any of us really think the results would have been any different if wed played the likes of Dummet, Krafth,Ritchie,Hall and Murphy and brought on Parkinson and Diallo

 

Yes wed have still been beaten but at least the regulars wouldnt have had to play these games and would have been fresh for Milan which now takes on massive importance. Howe is either too stubborn or just has no inclination to rotate and both could be the absolute downfall and derailment of our season. in 3 weeks time we could be sitting mid table out of Europe and out of the Carabao cup and with a huge Banana skin derby on the horizon

 

Rotating in certain games with what we had left could and would have been the better option, yes wed have still lost these games but our away form has been piss poor all season anyway regardless of fatigue or team selection

[WideopenMag]

16 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I don't think any of us believe Hall is ready yet, but it wouldn't be a like-for-like swap and it wouldn't be a tactical one either. It would be because certain players are clearly knackered and not performing to the high standards they've set, as a result. So give them a rest and accept that for one game we'll be weaker in that position from a skillset POV but better off in fitness. And then in subsequent games we'll have our best player/s back to near full strength. 

Injuries have robbed us of most rotation options, but even in the positions where we have cover, the manager won't rotate and it has blatantly cost us goals.

Trippier was absolutely brilliant in the Man United game before Everton, he was MOM for me, key to how we played and wasn't obviously fatigued. So it's only the Spurs game we can really have any criticism for that, seems harsh. Let's see how things go when botman, Burn etc are back.

[Rod]

10 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

lets be honest weve just been well and truly spanked in the last 2 games only the 3rd and 4th times in the last 18 months weve conceded 3 goals and the first since the back end of 21/22 since weve conceded 4. Do any of us really think the results would have been any different if wed played the likes of Dummet, Krafth,Ritchie,Hall and Murphy and brought on Parkinson and Diallo

 

Yes wed have still been beaten but at least the regulars wouldnt have had to play these games and would have been fresh for Milan which now takes on massive importance. Howe is either too stubborn or just has no inclination to rotate and both could be the absolute downfall and derailment of our season. in 3 weeks time we could be sitting mid table out of Europe and out of the Carabao cup and with a huge Banana skin derby on the horizon

 

Rotating in certain games with what we had left could and would have been the better option, yes wed have still lost these games but our away form has been piss poor all season anyway regardless of fatigue or team selection

We hammered Man Utd with Dummett and Hall involved.

[magvicar]

In Eddie I trust.

[BullyDogs]

16 minutes ago, Rod said:

We hammered Man Utd with Dummett and Hall involved.

Then why on earth not rest 2 of our first 11 for them in either of these games weve just been absolutely dogshit in, it doesnt make any logical sense at all

[rgk_lfc]

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

[BullyDogs]

3 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

What you are experiencing is exactly what we experience under Klopp when there are large number of injuries relative to fixture congestion. Once this eases, I have no doubt you will finish strongly.

 

By the way, full press tactics is plan A and plan B and plan C.  I remember Klopp stating if plan A is not working, then we fix it. 

 

You either commit to it 100% or you don't. It is not possible for a squad to commit to it, and then go back to a more defensive style and then return back to it. For managers who believe in counterparts, it is more of a squad ethos thing than just tactics.

Difference with Klopp is that hes more ruthless and doesnt have time for sentiment as far as his team goes if its not working he fixes it. Youve reshaped your whole midfield over the summer and you dont look any worse for it at all

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

Difference with Klopp is that hes more ruthless and doesnt have time for sentiment as far as his team goes if its not working he fixes it. Youve reshaped your whole midfield over the summer and you dont look any worse for it at all

 

Does help if you have unlimited amounts of cash to chuck at the midfield and forward line until it works, they've had plenty of duds in there. Not a dog at Klopp either, they're a very well ran club on the whole.