Eddie Howe

[Thumbheed]

17 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

Wolves will likely go above us today and you think we’re over-performing because 32 year old Callum Wilson in injured as per? Have a word. 

 

We are most certainly overperforming this season. 

 

Which team above us has a poorer squad? And which team below us has had worse injuries? 

[Kid Icarus]

Remember the flack Rafa used to get for the style of football we played. And that was with him rummaging around the bargain bins.

 

Imagine how quickly people would turn when it dawned on them that Mourinho's football is as bad with reasonable funding behind him. 

[STM]

Just looked and it wasn't until Artetas 4th season at Arsenal that they even got into the CL, they finished 8th, 8th and then 5th. Look at them now.

 

Klopp finished 8th in his first season too.

 

People were baying for blood with the former, but I'm sure the "top managers don't make these mistakes" crew won't acknowledge this.

 

Also something absolutely fundamental to the above. Liverpool and Arsenal had/have way more in terms of funding and player draw... as well as an array of talent at their clubs to begin with... and two of the best youth sides in the world. I also doubt they had anywhere near the injury crisis we have had.

 

The season we are having is absolutely par for the course.

 

 

[Yorkie]

8 minutes ago, Terrymac1966 said:

Jose Mourinho time?

Would have somethings Eddie is missing...the ability to attract top players this summer and a wealth of trophies behind him.

Its a question only ..needing a considered reply not an angry response please.

 

 

Mourinho isn't a good shout for the reasons KI listed but why should we change managers anyway? Is there any evidence that the broad trajectory under Howe isn't an upwards one? Are we so unrealistic about becoming top six regulars (an unbelievably difficult task) that we should sack him because he only achieved that in 50% of his seasons with us?

 

We're hardly talking about a flash-in-the-pan campaign under Pardew followed by a relegation battle, here. We've been in the mix all season despite everything. 

 

If we finish 10th or 11th this season, for instance, then we take it on the chin and crack on. 8th or 11th - there's very little difference, a bit of prize money aside. I appreciate that that leaves us vulnerable to losing our most coveted players but we should've known all along that we might not move fast enough for the likes of Bruno. That's just a symptom of the enormous ground we had to make up after Ashley.

[Menace]

Arteta has been heavily backed as well. The Mourinho shouts man

[STM]

What's worse is that part of me would absolutely love Mourinho, for romantic reasons.

 

That's a Freddy Shepherd move... or even a wild Mike Ashley move. Its not a smart strategical move.

[Yorkie]

@STM good shouts re the Arteta situation. Fair play to Arsenal for sticking with him when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs have demonstrated the issues with being impatient. I pray we never become like them. 

[Keegans Export]

6 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

We are most certainly overperforming this season. 

 

Which team above us has a poorer squad? And which team below us has had worse injuries? 

Where do you think we should be then, with injuries etc factored in? What wouldn't qualify as over/under performance? Not looking for an argument, just interested.

[STM]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

@STM good shouts re the Arteta situation. Fair play to Arsenal for sticking with him when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs have demonstrated the issues with being impatient. I pray we never become like them. 

 

What's worst, its not the clubs that struggle with the patience, its the fans.

[Menace]

5 minutes ago, STM said:

What's worse is that part of me would absolutely love Mourinho, for romantic reasons.

 

That's a Freddy Shepherd move... or even a wild Mike Ashley move. Its not a smart strategical move.

 

I think its just the whole situation of him being taught by SBR, and always speaks highly of us so some of our fans will always have a soft spot for him. I'd be devastated if he came here tbh.

[SUPERTOON]

Is there anyone who wouldn’t give him the summer window and a go again next season ? He has definitely earned that right surely ?

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Yorkie said:

@STM good shouts re the Arteta situation. Fair play to Arsenal for sticking with him when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs have demonstrated the issues with being impatient. I pray we never become like them. 

Chelsea are the most successful side in England this century - and Spurs are of course a club with one League Cup to their name in that period despite being a ‘Big Six’ club.  So the correlation between sticking to manager or not is arguable based on those two clubs. 

Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season, which would have bought him some time.  
 

I don’t really care if we stick with a manger for ten years or have ten managers in ten years - I’ll happily take whatever works if we won trophies.  I’d take Chelsea’s last 20 years quite happily, and wouldn’t blink about the number of managers we went through.  

[Menace]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

Is there anyone who wouldn’t give him the summer window and a go again next season ? He has definitely earned that right surely ?

 

Of course. We beat PSG just a few months ago - it was one of the highlights of my time supporting this club in the last 20+ years..

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, STM said:

 

What's worst, its not the clubs that struggle with the patience, its the fans.

Perhaps Arsenal finishing 8th behind closed doors saved Arteta then?

[Kid Icarus]

39 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

Wolves will likely go above us today and you think we’re over-performing because 32 year old Callum Wilson in injured as per? Have a word. 

 

Such a reductive argument.

 

From my understanding of every argument you've made about our 'keeper, midfield, and striker situation, because the club hasn't accounted for each weakness, it's a failure on the clubs part and the elephant in the room - that those weaknesses are exposed because of an unprecendented injury crisis that's hit all departments collectively - is in the end, making excuses. Would that be fair?

 

The club should have either got a 2nd choice sweeper keeper, a DM, and replaced a 1 in 2 striker instead of...? Or got them on top of our spend in the summer. 

 

It's all hypothetical but who's to say that if we'd accounted for those weaknesses, the weaknesses we did account for wouldn't have been exposed instead.

 

 

Edited February 25 by Kid Icarus

[Away Toon]

12 hours ago, andycap said:

And to think joelinton could be away in the summer. What will we do then without his power physicality he'll cost a fortune to replace properly. 

Billing the Danish wonder boy, one of 3 Bournemouth players we are being linked with.

[Yorkie]

11 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Chelsea are the most successful side in England this century - and Spurs are of course a club with one League Cup to their name in that period despite being a ‘Big Six’ club.  So the correlation between sticking to manager or not is arguable based on those two clubs. 

Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season, which would have bought him some time.  
 

I don’t really care if we stick with a manger for ten years or have ten managers in ten years - I’ll happily take whatever works if we won trophies.  I’d take Chelsea’s last 20 years quite happily, and wouldn’t blink about the number of managers we went through.  

 

Fair counter, I've probably got it wrong with Chelsea seeing as it's only Lampard and Potter in their recent chopping and changing who haven't delivered silverware. Spurs are a more valid example (i.e. by building their own roadblock when they twisted on Poch), and I wouldn't bet against Ange being shown the door within 12 months. 

 

My broader point is that I'm far more inclined to watch someone build and grow with us, with allowances for the occasional underachievement (not that Howe is underachieving), than hire and fire. If for any reason: I honestly don't think the pool of top managers - who can routinely get a team punching above its weight - is especially high. 

[Thumbheed]

5 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

Where do you think we should be then, with injuries etc factored in? What wouldn't qualify as over/under performance? Not looking for an argument, just interested.

 

I always expected a drop off this season because of the extra fixtures so at the beginning of the season I'd have honestly said 7th would have been a realistic target, and that would have been with a full squad. 

 

If this team was in 12th place I'd have been majorly disappointed but honestly, not surprised. 

 

What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of?

[Guest reefatoon]

24 minutes ago, Menace said:

Arteta has been heavily backed as well. The Mourinho shouts man

Terrifying.

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

I always expected a drop off this season because of the extra fixtures so at the beginning of the season I'd have honestly said 7th would have been a realistic target, and that would have been with a full squad. 

 

If this team was in 12th place I'd have been majorly disappointed but honestly, not surprised. 

 

What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of?

Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

Fair counter, I've probably got it wrong with Chelsea seeing as it's only Lampard and Potter in their recent chopping and changing who haven't delivered silverware. Spurs are a more valid example, and I wouldn't bet against Ange being shown the door within 12 months. 

 

My broader point is that I'm far more inclined to watch someone build and grow with us, with allowances for the occasional underachievement (not that Howe is underachieving), than hire and fire. If for any reason: I honestly don't think the pool of top managers - who can routinely get a team punching above its weight - is especially high. 

Yeah, I really thought you raising Spurs and Chelsea was interesting because the outcomes have been so different despite both ousting managers relatively quickly (I had Postecoglu to be sacked first, shows what I know - though that was based on Spurs’ track record).  Some big European clubs stick with managers for a while; others hire & fire.  Correlation between the rarity of changing of managers and the trophies won by clubs isn’t always all that strong.   But Spurs can hardly be happy with their lack of trophies despite the obvious financial strength they have. 

 

I agree re it would be good if Howe grows with the club - and I also think he’s done a very good job on the whole (though the last dozen games is pretty much relegation form - I suspect that will change when Pope returns).  But I’m not emotionally attached to him in an absolute respect - Keegan is the only one I ever truly was emotionally attached to (also, I was young).  If it doesn’t turn around next season then my view on Howe will harden.  The club comes ahead of any other considerations. 

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? 

NUFC finishing outside the top half is a failure in any context.  Which is why Ashley’s time was mostly one of failure. 

[Gawalls]

19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Such a reductive argument.

 

From my understanding of every argument you've made about our 'keeper, midfield, and striker situation, because the club hasn't accounted for each weakness, it's a failure on the clubs part and the elephant in the room - that those weaknesses are exposed because of an unprecendented injury crisis that's hit all departments collectively - is in the end, making excuses. Would that be fair?

 

The club should have either got a 2nd choice sweeper keeper, a DM, and replaced a 1 in 2 striker instead of...? Or got them on top of our spend in the summer. 

 

It's all hypothetical but who's to say that if we'd accounted for those weaknesses, the weaknesses we did account for wouldn't have been exposed instead.

 

 

 

And massively fined for breaching ffp 

[Keegans Export]

4 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of?

If we end the season behind Wolves and West Ham that'd be a bit of a disappointment. 

 

I think I'm more concerned that despite now not having European or League Cup fixtures to contend with and players gradually returning from injury our form has shown no signs of improvement. As I said earlier we have a friendly run of fixtures coming up so there's still time to change the narrative.

[Yorkie]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? 

 

From an optics point of view it could be damaging but if we finished say 11th as opposed to 8th I don't really see how it would dramatically re-define the season. 

 

We're in a mini-league with Brighton, West Ham, Chelsea and Wolves and the finishing places for those five are pretty interchangeable, imo.