Eddie Howe

[AyeDubbleYoo]

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

[Big Jow]

52 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

Absolute waste of time but this was our bench at PSG:

 

Dubravka
Karius
Dummett
Hall
Huntley
Ndiweni
Parkinson

 

The Isak conversation has been done to death but you could be totally sensationalist and argue any of those, including the keepers, would have contributed more than he was able to for the last 10 minutes or so. Any mobile player with lung capacity was worthwhile putting into his position as he could barely move.

 

I’d have also swapped Tino for Hall.

 

It’s all fairly irrelevant as we’ll never know what would have happened and the whole discussion is based on thoughts, feelings and guesswork. 

 

The very small overall point being made is that our approach on Saturday was dreadful and sadly it’s not the first, second or third time we’ve had to witness it this season - all without any success.

[Big Jow]

20 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

 

Not directly no, but Liverpool were up against it until he made those substitutions and then they dominated the ET period, resulting in an eventual goal.

 

The freshness of those players coming in, not necessarily their quality, made a huge difference.

[Kid Icarus]

They dominated the first 10 minutes of extra time, Chelsea had the much bigger chances for the rest of it and squandered them.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

Not directly no, but Liverpool were up against it until he made those substitutions and then they dominated the ET period, resulting in an eventual goal.

 

The freshness of those players coming in, not necessarily their quality, made a huge difference.

Hmm, not sure but the point remains about their kids being good and their team being generally confident. 
 

Kids are usually not used to fix problems with teams that are struggling. 

[The College Dropout]

The outcome doesn't matter too much.

 

Klopp used youngsters not proven in a cup final. Howe is hesitant to bring on more proven youngsters (Livra & Hall) in games of less importance. There's a difference in attitudes there. Klopp prioritised energy over experience and ability. That's now Howe's style.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

The outcome doesn't matter too much.

 

Klopp used youngsters not proven in a cup final. Howe is hesitant to bring on more proven youngsters (Livra & Hall) in games of less importance. There's a difference in attitudes there. Klopp prioritised energy over experience and ability. That's now Howe's style.

Yeah, but even that is ignoring the other factors. 
 

It’s nice to use kids when you can but you can’t say one approach is always better than the other. 

[The Prophet]

Do we think Klopp would have brought on Michael Ndiweni, James Huntley or Ben Parkinson?

[Hanshithispantz]

The Liverpool lads bar one were England U18 or U21 internationals.

 

Nobody knows what's going on with Hall, he's obviously good enough to get Premier League minutes, his lack of appearances won't be down to Howe not trusting youth - there's obviously an 'issue' with the player (people can speculate what that is - my guess would be that we're still getting him ready physically, as we saw with Gordon last season). 

[Erikse]

7 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

 

Maybe not, but the pure fact that he made those subs tells me that it's not necessarily as bad of an idea as many made it out to be back in december. Again, I'm referring to some specific arguments that were most commonly used to defend the decisions to not sub. According to the wording of some of the arguments back then, there was no way Klopp should've done what he did, even if their youngsters were better than ours. Simply due to the fact that they had no experience whatsoever, and usually they don't even feauture on the bench. Yet Klopp felt like he had to trust them over his tired on field players in the decisive moments of a final. It wasn't just a league game against Nottingham or Luton.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Erikse

[Sibierski]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

It will be interesting to see what we do with him, Miley and Feyenoord lad next season - assuming we fill out the squad. Which I'm not hopeful for.

 

This is where we potentially need to be ruthless. Europe or not Europe, they're good enough to be back ups, reducing the wages and freeing up capital to make 2 out right signings that are first team XI. Longstaff/Almiron should be moved on, as Anderson/Minteh can do no worse.

[Interpolic]

By our standards this season we've been stacked in defence recently, Livramento and Hall being on the bench has absolutely nowt to do with Isak playing too many minutes which is how this conversation started. Says nothing about Howe's faith in youth that he hasn't put a random kid in for Isak or Wilson. Sounds like a bad faith argument. 

[Big Jow]

37 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Do we think Klopp would have brought on Michael Ndiweni, James Huntley or Ben Parkinson?

 

Yes. He’s bought on much worse young players during his Liverpool tenure.

 

25 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

The Liverpool lads bar one were England U18 or U21 internationals.

 

Nobody knows what's going on with Hall, he's obviously good enough to get Premier League minutes, his lack of appearances won't be down to Howe not trusting youth - there's obviously an 'issue' with the player (people can speculate what that is - my guess would be that we're still getting him ready physically, as we saw with Gordon last season). 

 

I might be wrong but I can only assume we don’t want Hall and we’re therefore refusing to play him to avoid triggering it. Probably sensible if he’s not good enough to spend £30m on, but ruthless.

[Hanshithispantz]

1 hour ago, Interpolic said:

By our standards this season we've been stacked in defence recently, Livramento and Hall being on the bench has absolutely nowt to do with Isak playing too many minutes which is how this conversation started. Says nothing about Howe's faith in youth that he hasn't put a random kid in for Isak or Wilson. Sounds like a bad faith argument. 

Aye, he's actually played Tino on the wing a couple of times too when we've been especially light up top.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Hanshithispantz

[The Prophet]

Just now, Big Jow said:

 

Yes. He’s bought on much worse young players during his Liverpool tenure.

 

 

I might be wrong but I can only assume we don’t want Hall and we’re therefore refusing to play him to avoid triggering it. Probably sensible if he’s not good enough to spend £30m on, but ruthless.

 

Out of interest, who? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested who they are.

[Big Jow]

37 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Out of interest, who? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested who they are.

 

Rhys Williams one example that came to mind, he’s started a few games IIRC. He’s had a lot of unsuccessful loan spells, still on their books I think.

 

Herbie Kane with a very NUFC-youth player career of no England youth appearances and a lower league career after leaving.

 

Neither of those were any better than Parkinson is at the same age. Although whether he’ll improve or end up washing around League Two like plenty of our other youth players remains to be seen.

[Shearergol]

10 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

Rhys Williams one example that came to mind, he’s started a few games IIRC. He’s had a lot of unsuccessful loan spells, still on their books I think.

 

Herbie Kane with a very NUFC-youth player career of no England youth appearances and a lower league career after leaving.

 

Neither of those were any better than Parkinson is at the same age. Although whether he’ll improve or end up washing around League Two like plenty of our other youth players remains to be seen.

 

Herbie Kane was much more highly rated tbh. 

 

[The Prophet]

14 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

Rhys Williams one example that came to mind, he’s started a few games IIRC. He’s had a lot of unsuccessful loan spells, still on their books I think.

 

Herbie Kane with a very NUFC-youth player career of no England youth appearances and a lower league career after leaving.

 

Neither of those were any better than Parkinson is at the same age. Although whether he’ll improve or end up washing around League Two like plenty of our other youth players remains to be seen.

 

Rhys Williams is still a Premier League wing back, can't recall how good he was at Liverpool mind.

 

I had to Google Herbie Kane, but he never made a senior appearance for Liverpool.

 

Not to get hung up on the specifics though, I just don't think the likes of Parkinson get a sniff for Klopp in a cup final or defending a one goal lead away at PSG.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by The Prophet

[Shearergol]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

 

Rhys Williams is still a Premier League wing back, can't recall how good he was at Liverpool mind.

 

I had to Google Herbie Kane, but he never made a senior appearance for Liverpool.

 

Not to get hung up on the specifics though, I just don't think the likes of Parkinson get a sniff for Klopp in a cup final or defending a one goal lead away at PSG.

 

 

 

 

He played in this game

 

[Hanshithispantz]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Rhys Williams is still a Premier League wing back, can't recall how good he was at Liverpool mind.

 

I had to Google Herbie Kane, but he never made a senior appearance for Liverpool.

 

Not to get hung up on the specifics though, I just don't think the likes of Parkinson get a sniff for Klopp in a cup final or defending a one goal lead away at PSG.

 

 

 

Think you might be thinking of a different Rhys?

 

He went on to play in the Championship/League One but has just been sent back to Liverpool apparently.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Hanshithispantz

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Thinj you might be thinking of a different Rhys?

 

He went on to play in the Championship/League One bug has just been sent back to Liverpool apparently.

 

 

 

I am, my bad Big Jow

[Big Jow]

16 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Rhys Williams is still a Premier League wing back, can't recall how good he was at Liverpool mind.

 

I had to Google Herbie Kane, but he never made a senior appearance for Liverpool.

 

Not to get hung up on the specifics though, I just don't think the likes of Parkinson get a sniff for Klopp in a cup final or defending a one goal lead away at PSG.

 

 

 

 

Edit… deleted as others answered it.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by Big Jow

[Shearergol]

12 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

He played in this game

 

 

Worth pointing out that Liverpool lost this cup game 5-0.

 

Why won't Howe trust the kids though?

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Sibierski said:

 

This is where we potentially need to be ruthless. Europe or not Europe, they're good enough to be back ups, reducing the wages and freeing up capital to make 2 out right signings that are first team XI. Longstaff/Almiron should be moved on, as Anderson/Minteh can do no worse.

I don't think this is true and this is from a major Almiron critic.

 

1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

The Liverpool lads bar one were England U18 or U21 internationals.

 

Nobody knows what's going on with Hall, he's obviously good enough to get Premier League minutes, his lack of appearances won't be down to Howe not trusting youth - there's obviously an 'issue' with the player (people can speculate what that is - my guess would be that we're still getting him ready physically, as we saw with Gordon last season). 

These are all unconfirmed assumptions.

 

There's nowt to suggest Howe really fancies Hall. There could be a number of reasons why Hall isn't fancied - we can't draw any conclusions.

 

I've seen enough of Howe to know he likes what he likes and he'll ride it until the wheels fall off and not a moments before. If Isak can barely move and there's nobody he fancies at all on the bench, Isak stays. That energy/running about? Keep it.

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah, but even that is ignoring the other factors. 
 

It’s nice to use kids when you can but you can’t say one approach is always better than the other. 

This is true.

 

I do know that keeping on knackered players has led to last-minute capitulations, a tired and injured squad that loses many more subsequent games though. So perhaps we should try and avoid that situation??