Eddie Howe

[TheBrownBottle]

16 minutes ago, Superior Acuña said:

Murphy was Rafa (but agree)

I meant Robocop  

[TRon]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Agreed.  I would add - we are fairly close to both Villa and Spurs who have both been inconsistent. 

 

 

Both are in Europe with all the demands that brings on a squad. It was used as an excuse for our patchy form last season so we have to give them the same leeway. Even then, Spurs are becoming a bit of a joke and their manager is under real pressure.

 

But my point was that it's not even them I'm worried about now, it's not that clear we are better than teams like Brentford or Fulham and the rest who are currently above us.

[TheBrownBottle]

17 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

As a footballer I don’t disagree, but he’s the reason my love for the club came back so strongly. He’s the reason my son is obsessed with the club. I adore him, his passion, his energy, it looks like he bleeds black and white. In the modern game it’s really hard to find that, most players are at their club for their paycheck.

Bruno's here for the pay cheque too - he didn't grow up dreaming of playing for NUFC and wouldn't likely have signed for us a transfer window earlier than he did.  I don't mean that as a criticism of him (he's not 'mercenary' in that he is passionate), he clearly enjoys it both at the club and in the region generally.  He's a hard person to dislike, and I don't doubt that he'll have an affection for the club and fans.

 

He'd be difficult to replace as a character as much as his talent.  But pretty much all footballers are replacable.

[The College Dropout]

40 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Both are in Europe with all the demands that brings on a squad. It was used as an excuse for our patchy form last season so we have to give them the same leeway. Even then, Spurs are becoming a bit of a joke and their manager is under real pressure.

 

But my point was that it's not even them I'm worried about now, it's not that clear we are better than teams like Brentford or Fulham and the rest who are currently above us.

We aren’t comparable to Spurs in terms of squad cost and wages.  Competing with Spurs is punching above our weight. 
 

We’ll see how Villa get on.  Although I think their squad building and dealing with PSR has been better than ours.  They don’t have this cloud of discontent like we do which is costing us points.  I concede that they might just also have a better manager. But the manager isn’t the only one at Villa doing a better job (DoF + Owner + academy).  Villa are 6 years into their ownership we are 3.  Villa only started getting it really right from leadership 3 years ago. We are paying now for our ownership getting things wrong more than anything Howe is doing. 
 

I don’t expect Howe to keep his job if we finish below Fulham and Brentford.

[The College Dropout]

13 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

The squad we have built over the last two years is very much his. He has said he is happy with the business they have done regarding transfers. I find it strange the idea he's been let down in this area.

 

Ultimately, the way the squad has been put together has ended up causing him big problems. For the last two years at least there have been numerous complaints on here regarding not addressing the right wing, and also not addressing how open our midfield looks defensively. Neither of these issues have been addressed with adequate signings, or tactical adjustments.

 

This season we have largely continued to play the same formation with Bruno playing most often in front of the defence in a single pivot. I find that extraordinary to be honest. 

Who let him build this lopsided and ageing squad? Like I’ve said it’s the previous regimes fault for over indulging Eddie.  They are the business and numbers ppl who are responsible for the club in the medium and long term.  They shouldn’t have spent so much money on the players that they did.  Should’ve let players go earlier.  
 

Eddie is largely making the same mistakes he’s always made.  With the squad getting stale and the atmosphere changing the results are worse. 

[TheBrownBottle]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We aren’t comparable to Spurs in terms of squad cost and wages.  Competing with Spurs is punching above our weight. 
 

We’ll see how Villa get on.  Although I think their squad building and dealing with PSR has been better than ours.  They don’t have this cloud of discontent like we do which is costing us points.  I concede that they might just also have a better manager. But the manager isn’t the only one at Villa doing a better job (DoF + Owner + academy).  Villa are 6 years into their ownership we are 3.  Villa only started getting it really right from leadership 3 years ago. We are paying now for our ownership getting things wrong more than anything Howe is doing. 
 

I don’t expect Howe to keep his job if we finish below Fulham and Brentford.

This is true.  It is easy to forget, but Spurs have an income which is bigger than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool.  In fact, it is not just above Arsenal's - it is above Arsenal's to the roughly the same amount as our last year of Ashley-era income(!).  Spurs massively punch under their weight, financially speaking.  

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

This is true.  It is easy to forget, but Spurs have an income which is bigger than Chelsea, Arsenal or Liverpool.  In fact, it is not just above Arsenal's - it is above Arsenal's to the roughly the same amount as our last year of Ashley-era income(!).  Spurs massively punch under their weight, financially speaking.  

They don’t actually spend it though.  Their wage bill and squad cost will be much closer to Arsenals. But the revenues have been much higher. 
 

This is why I don’t believe the ‘we can catch spurs soon’ talk.  Spurs can go on spending sprees to regain their position at the top table if under threat. 
 

They are doing it now with the fees are keeping wages low. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

They don’t actually spend it though.  Their wage bill and squad cost will be much closer to Arsenals. But the revenues have been much higher. 
 

This is why I don’t believe the ‘we can catch spurs soon’ talk.  Spurs can go on spending sprees to regain their position at the top table if under threat. 
 

They are doing it now with the fees are keeping wages low. 

Yep.  It is their ownership's miserly running of the club which appears to keep them within reach.  They're miles ahead of us - I honestly don't really see how we get near them, never mind catch them.  If I was a Spurs fan I'd be spitting blood about the way the club is managed.

[TRon]

32 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We aren’t comparable to Spurs in terms of squad cost and wages.  Competing with Spurs is punching above our weight. 
 

We’ll see how Villa get on.  Although I think their squad building and dealing with PSR has been better than ours.  They don’t have this cloud of discontent like we do which is costing us points.  I concede that they might just also have a better manager. But the manager isn’t the only one at Villa doing a better job (DoF + Owner + academy).  Villa are 6 years into their ownership we are 3.  Villa only started getting it really right from leadership 3 years ago. We are paying now for our ownership getting things wrong more than anything Howe is doing. 
 

I don’t expect Howe to keep his job if we finish below Fulham and Brentford.

 

Well like I said, I don't really have any issues if we finish 7th or 8th. But now I am starting to get concerned we might finish below other teams like Brentford or Fulham because we don't particularly look any better than them this season.

[Newcastle Fan]

Its very frustrating that he seems to always struggle to find a good balance to the team, when he fixes the attack the defense goes shit and when he fixes the defense the attack goes shit, our midfield was finally looking good and he then rotated it.

 

He has a few easier games coming up now and its a big chance to turn things around, if we don't improve this month i think his days are numbered.

[The College Dropout]

Just now, TRon said:

 

Well like I said, I don't really have any issues if we finish 7th or 8th. But now I am starting to get concerned we might finish below other teams like Brentford or Fulham because we don't particularly look any better than them this season.

Yeh I think we are on the same page.  Howe won’t survive finishing below Fulham Brentford and Brighton.  Bur he should get the season to try. 
 

I don’t think the squad is good enough that a change in manager will have us fighting for 5th/6th. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

Well like I said, I don't really have any issues if we finish 7th or 8th. But now I am starting to get concerned we might finish below other teams like Brentford or Fulham because we don't particularly look any better than them this season.

I think this is the key to whether or not Howe deserves criticism.  Expecting CL qualification etc is unreasonable levels of expectations - that should be more hope than expectation.  Par based upon our squad (both talent and cost) should be around 7th.  8th-9th would be underperformance (in the same way anything above 7th is overperformance).  Form has us comfortably below par - performances as well as results.  That doesn't necessarily mean Howe should be sacked, nor that he can't turn it around.  But he isn't being criticised unreasonably at the moment, in the same way that the effusive praise in 22/23 was well-deserved.

 

We're still in both cups, and I want him to have the chance to break our duck, even if he isn't the long-term manager.  I really like him as a gadgie, and it would be great if he was the man to do it.  He'd forever be a legend here. But if we're out of both cups by the time the 4th round of the FA Cup concludes in late January and our league form hasn't improved drastically then for me he probably needs to go.

[TRon]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Yeh I think we are on the same page.  Howe won’t survive finishing below Fulham Brentford and Brighton.  Bur he should get the season to try. 
 

I don’t think the squad is good enough that a change in manager will have us fighting for 5th/6th. 

 

Yep, I definitely think he needs to be allowed to turn it around, there's still plenty of season left to do it. I'm just far less confident he'll do it because we don't seem to have any coherent team ethos this season. The players themselves don't seem to by buying into whatever it is we are trying to do.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh I think we are on the same page.  Howe won’t survive finishing below Fulham Brentford and Brighton.  Bur he should get the season to try. 
 

I don’t think the squad is good enough that a change in manager will have us fighting for 5th/6th. 

To be frank we need a manager who aligns with the overall vision, a lot of the issues we faced today are also relatable to the power struggle which occured over the summer. The strop thrown in Germany was quite eye opening and surprising. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, hakka said:

 

I've listened to a lot of Eddie as he's quite fascinating to listen to generally. Usually he navigates questions of dramatic nature very well but that's probably the one that definitely was blunt about feeling in the dark and concerned about a loss of control. He would have swerved it and left nothing to go on else.

Yeah I understand it from his point of view however managers are medium to short term things where as we are desperately in need of a long term strategy. 

 

What is the philosophy of the club? What is our DNA? We've got so many things to do which don't even appear to be on the agenda. 

[KaKa]

44 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Who let him build this lopsided and ageing squad? Like I’ve said it’s the previous regimes fault for over indulging Eddie.  They are the business and numbers ppl who are responsible for the club in the medium and long term.  They shouldn’t have spent so much money on the players that they did.  Should’ve let players go earlier.  
 

Eddie is largely making the same mistakes he’s always made.  With the squad getting stale and the atmosphere changing the results are worse. 

 

Yes, they did let him and they've all gone.

 

It was still Howe's decisions though, and so if things continue to go badly he will ultimately pay the price, especially if there is resistance to the changes the new DOF is trying to make.

[Kanj]

Same after the last loss, I’m quite chill about all of this and back him and the club to make correct decisions in January to make a push second half of the season. If they don’t, all involved will need to answer for it. 
 

Again, a lot of the player’s he’s trusted to execute simple instructions are failing him. Errant back passes, not tracking a runner, needless fouls in dangerous areas, missing headers etc. 

[The College Dropout]

42 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I think this is the key to whether or not Howe deserves criticism.  Expecting CL qualification etc is unreasonable levels of expectations - that should be more hope than expectation.  Par based upon our squad (both talent and cost) should be around 7th.  8th-9th would be underperformance (in the same way anything above 7th is overperformance).  Form has us comfortably below par - performances as well as results.  That doesn't necessarily mean Howe should be sacked, nor that he can't turn it around.  But he isn't being criticised unreasonably at the moment, in the same way that the effusive praise in 22/23 was well-deserved.

 

We're still in both cups, and I want him to have the chance to break our duck, even if he isn't the long-term manager.  I really like him as a gadgie, and it would be great if he was the man to do it.  He'd forever be a legend here. But if we're out of both cups by the time the 4th round of the FA Cup concludes in late January and our league form hasn't improved drastically then for me he probably needs to go.

Think our squad cost or wages is 8th. 8th can’t be a underperformance.  It’s the top 6 and big gap to us and Villa. Then there’s a little drop to the others. 
 

IMO 7-9 is par.  10th and lower is hard to justify.  But poor transfer window and bad vibes is a clear contributor. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Think our squad cost or wages is 8th. 8th can’t be a underperformance.  It’s the top 6 and big gap to us and Villa. Then there’s a little drop to the others. 
 

IMO 7-9 is par.  10th and lower is hard to justify.  But poor transfer window and bad vibes is a clear contributor. 

Tbf TCD I'm not absolute on these things - it was more a general point.  I actually think that 6th-8th/9th is more like par, but this is 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' stuff.  Results aren't in that space, and performances are well below it.

[The College Dropout]

43 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

To be frank we need a manager who aligns with the overall vision, a lot of the issues we faced today are also relatable to the power struggle which occured over the summer. The strop thrown in Germany was quite eye opening and surprising. 

Agreed. 
 

Im more concerned about what that overall vision and strategy is.  What happens to Howe will naturally flow from that imo.  

36 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah I understand it from his point of view however managers are medium to short term things where as we are desperately in need of a long term strategy. 

 

What is the philosophy of the club? What is our DNA? We've got so many things to do which don't even appear to be on the agenda. 

Agree here again.  What is it we are trying to do and what is the plan to get there?

 

34 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, they did let him and they've all gone.

 

It was still Howe's decisions though, and so if things continue to go badly he will ultimately pay the price, especially if there is resistance to the changes the new DOF is trying to make.

I’m not blaming Howe for the squad. That’s not his job.  He’s going to want to give himself the best shot at immediate results. 
 

Also if it was up to Howe we wouldn’t have Tino and Hall imo.  

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Tbf TCD I'm not absolute on these things - it was more a general point.  I actually think that 6th-8th/9th is more like par, but this is 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' stuff.  Results aren't in that space, and performances are well below it.

Fairs. But we are only just short points wise. 
 

I guess my overall point is - I’m more concerned about Yassir, CEO and Mitchell than what Howe or the team does. It feels like misdirected energy.  June 25 to 1 Sep was a mess and stopped all opportunity to kick on imo.  This is a season to sort ourselves out.   The entire project has stalled and that’s being reflected on the pitch.  

 

 

Edited December 8, 2024 by The College Dropout

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Fairs. But we are only just short points wise. 
 

I guess my overall point is - I’m more concerned about Yassir, CEO and Mitchell than what Howe or the team does. It feels like misdirected energy.  June 25 to 1 Sep was a mess and stopped all opportunity to kick on imo.  This is a season to sort ourselves out.   

I agree regarding more concerned about the Saudis. Genuinely unsure what their actual plans are for us, fortunately any stadium news should let us all know.

[Andy]

To me, you don't necessarily have to judge on league position, unless the aim is very specific ie. must achieve European Football. I don't think that currently applies to us. Our par is probably 7th or 8th as others have said. I think we will fall short of that this year. 

 

I could accept us dropping off a bit if it looked like we were in transition and trying to actively change the things that weren't working, even if the alternative plans weren't working either or were taking time to kick in. 

 

My larger concern at the moment is that we aren't really trying anything different, it's the same formation and setup almost every week just with different players wearing the stripes. Sometimes we look more balanced, sometimes we look less balanced, but given that nothing seems to work consistently, the successes seem to be more down to how the opposition play against us, rather than anything we did. 

 

For the most part this season, we have looked like one of the easiest teams to play against in the league. And while the league position isn't the be-all and end-all, it does reflect that. 

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Agreed. 
 

Im more concerned about what that overall vision and strategy is.  What happens to Howe will naturally flow from that imo.  

Agree here again.  What is it we are trying to do and what is the plan to get there?

 

I’m not blaming Howe for the squad. That’s not his job.  He’s going to want to give himself the best shot at immediate results. 
 

Also if it was up to Howe we wouldn’t have Tino and Hall imo.  

 

It was his job though, he was very much controlling who came in and out under Staveley. That's partly the reason she has left as far as I can read it, we have held onto ageing players, giving out new contracts to many of them, then ended up selling younger talents to satisfy PSR. Ashworth said something about having less say on transfers than he expected, and Mitchell said that this summer was also going after signings that had already been identified by the previous set up.

 

From this January onwards you would expect Mitchell to take charge and Howe to be more accommodating of players coming and going.

[The College Dropout]

42 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

It was his job though, he was very much controlling who came in and out under Staveley. That's partly the reason she has left as far as I can read it, we have held onto ageing players, giving out new contracts to many of them, then ended up selling younger talents to satisfy PSR. Ashworth said something about having less say on transfers than he expected, and Mitchell said that this summer was also going after signings that had already been identified by the previous set up.

 

From this January onwards you would expect Mitchell to take charge and Howe to be more accommodating of players coming and going.

If I’m a Manager at work and my influence is where I’m making decisions above my grade - that’s the fault of the people above me. 
 

Those people have left the club. And Howe has been refocused on the first team like he should’ve been at the first instance. 
 

If he doesn’t like it he should and will leave.  
 

I said it at the time - was never sure about giving Joelinton the super max. I sided with Ashworth when that news came out.