Bruno Guimarães

[M1tche]

Love him further forward he's playing the hard passes in areas that mean the transition would hurt us a lot less, and they are more likely to lead to clear cut chances. 

 

If he can keep doing that and not step on Sandro's toes, and we then add another threat or get Willock back to his 100% we have a top level midfield. 

[Chris_R]

51 minutes ago, Fak said:

Could have been a second yellow had he got one for his dive in the box. But the tackle itself was never a straight red. 

 

8 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Should have been two yellows as others have said but that didn't look like a straight red at all.

 

That's not how it would have worked though.

He gets a yellow for the dive, then everything after would have unfolded differently. Different passages of play would have happened.

[McDog]

Just now, Chris_R said:

 

 

That's not how it would have worked though.

He gets a yellow for the dive, then everything after would have unfolded differently. Different passages of play would have happened.

 

 

Butterfly effect you say?

 

[Chris_R]

2 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Butterfly effect you say?

 

Not even that.

 

Butterfly effect means that something small changing locally can eventually have repercussions on the other side of the world.

 

What we're talking about here is something different happening on the same pitch. The ref pauses play to book Bruno, everything after that in the ground happens differently because all the players are in different positions, make different decisions and hit the ball differently.

 

It's like when a commentator says "He could have had 3 today!" after a player misses 3 chances. No, he could have had 1 three times. Score one, and everything after is different.

[McDog]

Just now, Chris_R said:

Not even that.

 

Butterfly effect means that something small changing locally can eventually have repercussions on the other side of the world.

 

What we're talking about here is something different happening on the same pitch. The ref pauses play to book Bruno, everything after that in the ground happens differently because all the players are in different positions, make different decisions and hit the ball differently.

 

It's like when a commentator says "He could have had 3 today!" after a player misses 3 chances. No, he could have had 1 three times. Score one, and everything after is different.

 

 

That's true of every single thing on the pitch though. I stand by he deserved both cards and nobody except a supreme being running things can say what may have happened. We can only judge on what ACTUALLY happened.

 

Scoring though can affect what a team does tactically. Even then, there is no way to know.

[80]

Are we talking about the pen shout where he got barged by their defender? Given the amount of dives I see rewarded and defended, including on here, regularly, I'm totally nonplussed by the idea he should've had a yellow.

[El Prontonise]

3 minutes ago, 80 said:

Are we talking about the pen shout where he got barged by their defender? Given the amount of dives I see rewarded and defended, including on here, regularly, I'm totally nonplussed by the idea he should've had a yellow.

 

This was a pathetic dive, also he wasn't barged.

[80]

Just now, El Prontonise said:

 

This was a pathetic dive, also he wasn't barged.

Got a replay available? Thought I saw impact into his hip...

[McDog]

Just now, 80 said:

Got a replay available? Thought I saw impact into his hip...

 

 

Kind of looked like he was heading to the ground before that even. Comms mentioned he may have been expecting more contact. It looked like a dive to me. Glad he wasn't carded, mind.

[80]

5 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Kind of looked like he was heading to the ground before that even. Comms mentioned he may have been expecting more contact. It looked like a dive to me. Glad he wasn't carded, mind.

But there was impact into his hip on TV then? By modern standards - I don't like them - but by modern standards that's basically never a card then. 

 

I think I can remember seeing one card for diving since 2021... But I can remember seeing a lot more clearer dives than that.

[Chris_R]

18 minutes ago, McDog said:

I stand by he deserved both cards and nobody except a supreme being running things can say what may have happened.

 

I can say with absolute certainty that if he was booked for the first dive, every passage of play after that would have been different. There is no way for the same match to unfold afterwards with the same incidents, because from that instant everyone is in slightly different positions, thinking slightly different things and doing things slightly differently. After just a few seconds, the entire future bears no resemblance to what happened when he didn't get booked.

 

Even if (and this is impossible for the reasons above) Bruno found himself faced with making that exact tackle after getting booked for diving, he'd know he was on a yellow so would be thinking differently. But as I say, that's not a possible position for him to be in if you book him the first time because everything after will be different.

 

First incident he was lucky not to get booked. Second incident was probably a booking but no more, he was playing the ball but just missed it, there was no malice. But "lucky not to get sent off for 2 yellows" is just nonsense talk due to the laws of causality.

 

Anyway, I need another beer and I'm off to play Indiana Jones.

[Fak]

18 minutes ago, 80 said:

Got a replay available? Thought I saw impact into his hip...

He was already on the way down by the time any contact was made. 

[Fak]

40 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

 

That's not how it would have worked though.

He gets a yellow for the dive, then everything after would have unfolded differently. Different passages of play would have happened.

Could have made another yellow card worthy foul in the resulting different passages of play. 
 

[80]

Just now, Fak said:

He was already on the way down by the time any contact was made. 

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

[Fak]

1 minute ago, 80 said:

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

Bruno was lucky not to get a straight red for the dive. 

[McDog]

30 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

I can say with absolute certainty that if he was booked for the first dive, every passage of play after that would have been different. There is no way for the same match to unfold afterwards with the same incidents, because from that instant everyone is in slightly different positions, thinking slightly different things and doing things slightly differently. After just a few seconds, the entire future bears no resemblance to what happened when he didn't get booked.

 

Even if (and this is impossible for the reasons above) Bruno found himself faced with making that exact tackle after getting booked for diving, he'd know he was on a yellow so would be thinking differently. But as I say, that's not a possible position for him to be in if you book him the first time because everything after will be different.

 

First incident he was lucky not to get booked. Second incident was probably a booking but no more, he was playing the ball but just missed it, there was no malice. But "lucky not to get sent off for 2 yellows" is just nonsense talk due to the laws of causality.

 

Anyway, I need another beer and I'm off to play Indiana Jones.

 

 

Enjoy the beer. I agree with that point. I'll have another IPA myself.

[Yorkie]

50 minutes ago, 80 said:

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

 

That was my take, too. Goes down early in anticipation of the contact. Let's face it, most recipients of fouls emphasise the contact these days; doesn't mean it isn't a foul. Was annoying he didn't sell it better tbh.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Almost everyone who gets a penalty goes down themselves when they could’ve continued. He just got the timing a bit wrong to make it convincing. 
 

I didn’t actually understand what the ref gave, was it a freekick for handball? I think Leicester eventually took it as if it was a goal kick, it was very weird. 

[SUPERTOON]

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

[Yorkie]

20 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

 

Really? He goes over the top but it's hardly a stamp and the contact is minimal. Red would've been incredibly harsh imo; yellow's fair. 

[SUPERTOON]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

Really? He goes over the top but it's hardly a stamp and the contact is minimal. Red would've been incredibly harsh imo; yellow's fair. 

I’ve only saw it back once, looked like a typical red we see these days. Will have to watch it again.

[Andy84]

It’s really not a red like

[splinter]

He dived and I hate to see it

[Lush Vlad]

2 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

Nah. Should have been off for a second yellow. But maybe he doesn’t make that if he was booked for his dive. Who knows. 
 

Mental that the ref decided it was a yellow and a foul, TBH. No way he saw it and just went off Mavididi’s reaction. Seemed like a guess, to me. Even if we did eventually arrive at the correct decision. 

[Lotus]

2 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Nah. Should have been off for a second yellow. But maybe he doesn’t make that if he was booked for his dive. Who knows. 
 

Mental that the ref decided it was a yellow and a foul, TBH. No way he saw it and just went off Mavididi’s reaction. Seemed like a guess, to me. Even if we did eventually arrive at the correct decision. 

Thought maybe the AR had said something to him and that’s why he blew up and booked him.