Bruno Guimarães

[Chris_R]

18 minutes ago, McDog said:

I stand by he deserved both cards and nobody except a supreme being running things can say what may have happened.

 

I can say with absolute certainty that if he was booked for the first dive, every passage of play after that would have been different. There is no way for the same match to unfold afterwards with the same incidents, because from that instant everyone is in slightly different positions, thinking slightly different things and doing things slightly differently. After just a few seconds, the entire future bears no resemblance to what happened when he didn't get booked.

 

Even if (and this is impossible for the reasons above) Bruno found himself faced with making that exact tackle after getting booked for diving, he'd know he was on a yellow so would be thinking differently. But as I say, that's not a possible position for him to be in if you book him the first time because everything after will be different.

 

First incident he was lucky not to get booked. Second incident was probably a booking but no more, he was playing the ball but just missed it, there was no malice. But "lucky not to get sent off for 2 yellows" is just nonsense talk due to the laws of causality.

 

Anyway, I need another beer and I'm off to play Indiana Jones.

[Fak]

18 minutes ago, 80 said:

Got a replay available? Thought I saw impact into his hip...

He was already on the way down by the time any contact was made. 

[Fak]

40 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

 

That's not how it would have worked though.

He gets a yellow for the dive, then everything after would have unfolded differently. Different passages of play would have happened.

Could have made another yellow card worthy foul in the resulting different passages of play. 
 

[80]

Just now, Fak said:

He was already on the way down by the time any contact was made. 

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

[Fak]

1 minute ago, 80 said:

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

Bruno was lucky not to get a straight red for the dive. 

[McDog]

30 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

I can say with absolute certainty that if he was booked for the first dive, every passage of play after that would have been different. There is no way for the same match to unfold afterwards with the same incidents, because from that instant everyone is in slightly different positions, thinking slightly different things and doing things slightly differently. After just a few seconds, the entire future bears no resemblance to what happened when he didn't get booked.

 

Even if (and this is impossible for the reasons above) Bruno found himself faced with making that exact tackle after getting booked for diving, he'd know he was on a yellow so would be thinking differently. But as I say, that's not a possible position for him to be in if you book him the first time because everything after will be different.

 

First incident he was lucky not to get booked. Second incident was probably a booking but no more, he was playing the ball but just missed it, there was no malice. But "lucky not to get sent off for 2 yellows" is just nonsense talk due to the laws of causality.

 

Anyway, I need another beer and I'm off to play Indiana Jones.

 

 

Enjoy the beer. I agree with that point. I'll have another IPA myself.

[Yorkie]

50 minutes ago, 80 said:

I'm not disputing that he was playing for it and 'helping the referee make his decision', but I see that constantly being assessed as something a Liverpool or Arsenal player is 'entitled' to do. If there was zero contact it would be different.

 

Just don't see the need to make a hair shirt for ourselves over a phantom red card.

 

That was my take, too. Goes down early in anticipation of the contact. Let's face it, most recipients of fouls emphasise the contact these days; doesn't mean it isn't a foul. Was annoying he didn't sell it better tbh.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Almost everyone who gets a penalty goes down themselves when they could’ve continued. He just got the timing a bit wrong to make it convincing. 
 

I didn’t actually understand what the ref gave, was it a freekick for handball? I think Leicester eventually took it as if it was a goal kick, it was very weird. 

[SUPERTOON]

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

[Yorkie]

20 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

 

Really? He goes over the top but it's hardly a stamp and the contact is minimal. Red would've been incredibly harsh imo; yellow's fair. 

[SUPERTOON]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

Really? He goes over the top but it's hardly a stamp and the contact is minimal. Red would've been incredibly harsh imo; yellow's fair. 

I’ve only saw it back once, looked like a typical red we see these days. Will have to watch it again.

[Andy84]

It’s really not a red like

[splinter]

He dived and I hate to see it

[Lush Vlad]

2 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

I thought he was lucky not to see a straight red for the foul just after the dive.

Nah. Should have been off for a second yellow. But maybe he doesn’t make that if he was booked for his dive. Who knows. 
 

Mental that the ref decided it was a yellow and a foul, TBH. No way he saw it and just went off Mavididi’s reaction. Seemed like a guess, to me. Even if we did eventually arrive at the correct decision. 

[Lotus]

2 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Nah. Should have been off for a second yellow. But maybe he doesn’t make that if he was booked for his dive. Who knows. 
 

Mental that the ref decided it was a yellow and a foul, TBH. No way he saw it and just went off Mavididi’s reaction. Seemed like a guess, to me. Even if we did eventually arrive at the correct decision. 

Thought maybe the AR had said something to him and that’s why he blew up and booked him.

[Heron]

It was definitely a dive. If an opposition player does that them you're calling it a dive.

 

Bruno is typically very good at winning fouls by drawing in any contact and making something of it. Got it wrong this time because of his desire to win a penalty.

 

There's a fine line between gamesmanship and drawing fouls and making something of them and diving.

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Thought maybe the AR had said something to him and that’s why he blew up and booked him.

I cannot remember if it was this foul or another, but the referee seemed unsure whether it was even a free kick at first, then proceeded to book him. Which in the stadium seemed bizarre.

[Lotus]

The timing of it made me think he had something said in his earpiece. Odd thing the AR never waved his flag though. 
Not too interested in doing a deep dive on it but it was curious 

[Lush Vlad]

21 minutes ago, Lotus said:

Thought maybe the AR had said something to him and that’s why he blew up and booked him.

I didn’t think the lino flagged did he? Strange if he said something without signalling for a foul. 4th official isn’t allowed to say anything, is he? All seemed a bit odd, to me. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:48 by Lush Vlad

[Lush Vlad]

17 minutes ago, Heron said:

I cannot remember if it was this foul or another, but the referee seemed unsure whether it was even a free kick at first, then proceeded to book him. Which in the stadium seemed bizarre.

It was that one. Just stared for ages. You can hear Mavididi shouting for the ref, then a few Leicester players complain and he blows up 5 seconds later. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

50 minutes ago, Heron said:

It was definitely a dive. If an opposition player does that them you're calling it a dive.

 

Bruno is typically very good at winning fouls by drawing in any contact and making something of it. Got it wrong this time because of his desire to win a penalty.

 

There's a fine line between gamesmanship and drawing fouls and making something of them and diving.

It’s a very fine line though. I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid if Harry Kane did that and got a pen for it. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

31 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

It was that one. Just stared for ages. You can hear Mavididi shouting for the ref, then a few Leicester players complain and he blows up 5 seconds later. 

It was the reaction of the players that changed the refs mind. He was fairly weak overall on things like that. 

[Smal]

it would’ve been a nailed on penalty if Bruno had just waited a second for the contact to come . He’d already kicked the ball in front and done the difficult part but just threw himself down inexplicably. It was really dumb.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If you do that over the goalkeeper you get a penalty with no questions asked. Leave your legs behind to trail into the contact and you’re good. 
 

Found it a bit unnecessary to focus on it so much. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:30 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Heron]

14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s a very fine line though. I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid if Harry Kane did that and got a pen for it. 

English people don't dive.