ponsaelius Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Just now, bobloblaw said: But you (or others) have said nobody is interested in American sports because there was nothing at risk. The lack of inherent risk or jeopardy I believe definitely contributes to their reduced popularity globally and is certainly not a sporting model that European football should look to copy - yes. I'm not seriously making a comparison between amateur English football and elite level sports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 I can't believe it needs explaining how the free market can be exploitative like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: I can't believe it needs explaining how the free market can be exploitative like If the market is actually free, then it literally cant. Scarcity is a thing. Edited May 7, 2022 by bobloblaw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said: It is a bit weird how y’all get all kinds of hot and bothered by Americans in particular being involved in the game. Far more so than any other foreigners. My guess would be that because purists already generally hate the day out style commercialisation of the game, they look at U.S Sports, see owners from the U.S come over here and shudder at the thought of that side of things getting worse and worse. U.S sports aren't as popular as football, that's no big deal, but I think it rubs people the wrong way when it's suggested that the world's most popular sport could "improve" by adopting aspects of less popular U.S sports, and U.S sports fans then feel the need to get on the defensive when it's mentioned. It tends to be very much a "you" (America) problem, that doesn't come from elsewhere. Edited May 7, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: My guess would be that because purists already generally hate the day out style commercialisation of the game, they look at U.S Sports, see owners from the U.S come over here and shudder at the thought of that side of things getting worse and worse. U.S sports aren't as popular as football, that's no big deal, but I think it rubs people the wrong way when it's suggested that the world's most popular sport could "improve" by adopting aspects of less popular U.S sports, and U.S sports fans feel the need to get on the defensive. It tends to be very much a "you" (America) problem, that doesn't come from elsewhere. I think there might be some difference here between things like rules changes, and the way the sport is administered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 There's no difference, it's all part of the same stereotypical American hubris that you should be listened to because you do things best. It's actually mad how much that stereotype exists Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 As a fan of this football club who’s supported this forum on about every single level (ask the admins) who’s spent a ton of time and effort trying to follow NUFC from the mid 90s in Florida - I often find the smugness towards any American opinion as pretty childish behavior. Most of us are thankful this place exits and enjoys the chat and banter but forgive me for feeling like it’s always about European football or English football culture is the best and never needed change, and When differing opinions come about it’s always shut up capitalist Americans! It’s tiresome and sometimes hurtful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: There's no difference, it's all part of the same stereotypical American hubris that you should be listened to because you do things best. It's actually mad how much that stereotype exists Alternatively, maybe we do some things well, and others could learn from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Kanji said: There’s a lot European football can learn from American sports - the fan experience does matter in modern times. Whether you like it or not. The accessibility and access on Tv matters. The ticket sales, resale market does. Ticket operations is about 30 years behind ours. The idea English football allows clubs to just disappear - doesn’t happen here. Fans wouldn’t have to suffer that - or another mike Ashley. I'm going to go back to this point as it is worth touching on. They don't. Clubs dont disappear. If they go bust they'll start again with the same fans. Because there's more to football clubs than just the registered company. Nobody other than Celtic fans would try to suggest that the Rangers in Seville next week is a different one to the one that played in Manchester in 2008. Half of the Italian pyramid have restarted at some point. In the US teams genuinely do disappear - when they're picked up and moved across state lines and given an entirely new name. At the whim of a billionaire owner. How many of those moved franchises were replaced by phoenix clubs in the same way happens here? Without a pyramid it's basically not possible. The choice is to support your local college/HS team instead, latch onto a new team, or pick a different sport. And wait until another billionaire or group gives it another go in your city. There's serious problems with English footballs vetting of owners from an administrative point of view - but there isn't a systemic issue that means teams literally cease to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: There's no difference, it's all part of the same stereotypical American hubris that you should be listened to because you do things best. It's actually mad how much that stereotype exists Is this something like the hubris of people who tell us that all of our domestic sports are boring unwatchable trash because we don't have a pyramid like you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: There's no difference, it's all part of the same stereotypical American hubris that you should be listened to because you do things best. It's actually mad how much that stereotype exists Kinda like the English re: politics, culture, etc. Edited May 7, 2022 by Tomato Deuce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Kid Icarus said: I fucking hate all that fan experience shite. The Germans have it right, that's the direction I'd want the game to go in. Aren’t they contradictory as the fan experience in Germany is good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 minute ago, bobloblaw said: Alternatively, maybe we do some things well, and others could learn from it. This is exactly it though, a lot of the things you do well many people don't like or want, and consider them as things that would worsen the game and what it means to them to be a football fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Just now, Disco said: Aren’t they contradictory as the fan experience in Germany is good? Fan experience should have been in inverted commas, I was referring to Ian's post about the fan experience in the U.S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, bobloblaw said: Is this something like the hubris of people who tell us that all of our domestic sports are boring unwatchable trash because we don't have a pyramid like you? Like I say, going on the defensive over nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tomato Deuce said: Kinda like Brits and politics, culture, etc. Very weak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said: This is exactly it though, a lot of the things you do well many people don't like or want, and consider them as things that would worsen the game and what it means to them to be a football fan. Great. I've seen a lot of posts from people here talking about how football is dying, and issues with the game. I've never seen posts like that on NFL, MLB, or NBA forums i frequent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Fan experience should have been in inverted commas, I was referring to Ian's post about the fan experience in the U.S you been to a ton of live sports in the us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Just now, bobloblaw said: Great. I've seen a lot of posts from people here talking about how football is dying, and issues with the game. I've never seen posts like that on NFL, MLB, or NBA forums i frequent. Football is definitely not dying. Quite the opposite. But most of the things bad about it, which would justify such a point, are a direct result of it becoming more like US sports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 Just now, bobloblaw said: Great. I've seen a lot of posts from people here talking about how football is dying, and issues with the game. I've never seen posts like that on NFL, MLB, or NBA forums i frequent. Okay, now guess what the reasons usually given for the death of the game are? The very things we, rightly or wrongly, associate with U.S sports. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 minute ago, ponsaelius said: Football is definitely not dying. Quite the opposite. But most of the things bad about it, which would justify such a point, are a direct result of it becoming more like US sports. What does that even mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kanji said: you been to a ton of live sports in the us? I've seen enough on T.V and experienced enough live football matches lurching towards that to know I don't like it. Why do you all get so defensive about it? We're allowed to not like things. Edited May 7, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said: I've seen enough on T.V and experienced enough live football matches lurching towards that to know I don't like it. Why do you all get so defensive about it? We're allowed to not like things. I’m just wondering why you have such strong opinions about live sport fan experience in the US but have this opinion based on what you’ve seen on TV and I don’t exactly know what is irking you Sewelly. Its just a genuine question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: 1. I've seen enough on T.V and experienced enough live football matches lurching towards that to know I don't like it. 2. Why do you all get so defensive about it? We're allowed to not like things. 1. Oh my. 2. Probably hubris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted May 7, 2022 Share Posted May 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Kanji said: I’m just wondering why you have such strong opinions about live sport fan experience in the US but have this opinion based on what you’ve seen on TV and I don’t exactly know what is irking you Sewelly. Its just a genuine question. My favorite is the one who went to a live NBA game and was just meh. Live NBA is the peak of "holy shit these guys are athletic freaks'." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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