Bellis80 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Unfortunately I think it needs a whole new system. Would be terrible for me as have enough points but unless there is a way to know people have attended themselves I can’t think of a way to sort it out for people with less points to start getting them. I’d guess about half the away end are those that go every week, apart from Brentford and Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Boo Boy said: As someone who has over 230 points i can see all side of this. The current system suits me fine as i can go when i want however do i think it is 100% fair no i don't so what is suggest is points last for 3 years and then drop off so those that go will still have first dibs so to speak but people who went years ago but don't now will rightly lose them. As well as that the system the use at Brighton should be brought in so that you have to show ID for a percentage of the tickets so only real fans are using their real numbers and not passing them on. Not perfect but better than the current set up even though that benefits me personally. Shit for people who's circumstances have changed that When I was a youngun trying to get a ticket for the likes of Sunderland away I was told tough luck that's what people put the miles in for, so they can pick and choose, and that was fair enough to me so I went to the less glamorous games for years down in the championship first time etc etc. Don't think that's fair to change now im in the situation those people who telt me tough luck are in because its now popular again because we are half decent I'm lucky if I can do 2 or 3 a season because I've got young kids now I think it would be utter bullshit if my points start dropping off cos I can't go as much now May as well just make it an open ballot for every away game to keep people happy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, jack j said: Shit for people who's circumstances have changed that When I was a youngun trying to get a ticket for the likes of Sunderland away I was told tough luck that's what people put the miles in for, so they can pick and choose, and that was fair enough to me so I went to the less glamorous games for years down in the championship first time etc etc. Don't think that's fair to change now im in the situation those people who telt me tough luck are in because its now popular again because we are half decent I'm lucky if I can do 2 or 3 a season because I've got young kids now I think it would be utter bullshit if my points start dropping off cos I can't go as much now May as well just make it an open ballot for every away game to keep people happy I think the main point you're missing is that there is no way to go to the less glamourous games now, if say 1 a season drops to 0 - it'll take people 120 years to be able to do Leeds away. Nobody is saying you should lose your points, but times have changed and so should this. Just to make it fairer to the overwhelming majority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Chicken Dancer said: I think the main point you're missing is that there is no way to go to the less glamourous games now, if say 1 a season drops to 0 - it'll take people 120 years to be able to do Leeds away. Nobody is saying you should lose your points, but times have changed and so should this. Just to make it fairer to the overwhelming majority. Put 500 each game to a ballot then that might stop some of the whinging. The clue is in the name though Loyalty points. The away games I've been to since the takeover I've looked around and seen plenty of younguns there. Most the people whinging seem to be middle aged blokes who want tickets for themselves but use the old it's stopping kids getting tickets line Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, jack j said: Put 500 each game to a ballot then that might stop some of the whinging. The clue is in the name though Loyalty points. The away games I've been to since the takeover I've looked around and seen plenty of younguns there. Most the people whinging seem to be middle aged blokes who want tickets for themselves but use the old it's stopping kids getting tickets line You always come across as a particularly aggressive fella for some reason. Sometimes, when people are trying to make reasoned points in order to make a system fairer, it isn't always whinging. It's never going to be an easy one to discuss, and no matter what - impossible to make it fair for everyone. I completely get that you have your points through time, effort and money. You deserve them and good for you. Just relax. The youngsters you mention will have got tickets from people with the points, thus proving the point that people hoard points whilst others go instead of them. That's the whole point of this debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said: You always come across as a particularly aggressive fella for some reason. Sometimes, when people are trying to make reasoned points in order to make a system fairer, it isn't always whinging. It's never going to be an easy one to discuss, and no matter what - impossible to make it fair for everyone. I completely get that you have your points through time, effort and money. You deserve them and good for you. Just relax. The youngsters you mention will have got tickets from people with the points, thus proving the point that people hoard points whilst others go instead of them. That's the whole point of this debate. Haha am not aggressive. Just probably over defensive on this subject when it comes up every now and then because I feel like people like me are the ones going to be trampled over with any new system whereas in years gone by the people like me were told to deal with it and that was fine! If you don't look after number one nobody else will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, jack j said: Haha am not aggressive. Just probably over defensive on this subject when it comes up every now and then because I feel like people like me are the ones going to be trampled over with any new system whereas in years gone by the people like me were told to deal with it and that was fine! If you don't look after number one nobody else will I quite agree, which is why nobody should lose points (I actually believe they should be permanent - ST or not, but that's from a bias perspective). I think the main thing is opening up ways for people to accumulate points via other means (cup games etc) and making sure the person purchasing the ticket is the person attending the game, unless it goes through a verified resale process and therefore would lose the point they gained with the transaction. We can't just have the same 1/2k with over 100 points getting more and more every week whilst tickets will very rarely drop to 0 now. I appreciate that things were different in the past, but times and technology are changing, as is our great club. As for me - every single ground that's currently a Premier League stadium I have attended in my time, plus many others in the lower leagues. Some which are now housing estates, and some abroad. Therefore, I'm not overly bothered from a personal standpoint - I've had my shot. But I do want my son and nephews to be given a fair crack of the whip when it's their time. Edited October 11, 2022 by Chicken Dancer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, jack j said: Haha am not aggressive. Just probably over defensive on this subject when it comes up every now and then because I feel like people like me are the ones going to be trampled over with any new system whereas in years gone by the people like me were told to deal with it and that was fine! If you don't look after number one nobody else will Areet Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Chicken Dancer said: I quite agree, which is why nobody should lose points (I actually believe they should be permanent - ST or not, but that's from a bias perspective). I think the main thing is opening up ways for people to accumulate points via other means (cup games etc) and making sure the person purchasing the ticket is the person attending the game, unless it goes through a verified resale process and therefore would lose the point they gained with the transaction. We can't just have the same 1/2k with over 100 points getting more and more every week whilst tickets will very rarely drop to 0 now. I appreciate that things were different in the past, but times and technology are changing, as is our great club. As for me - every single ground that's currently a Premier League stadium I have attended in my time, plus many others in the lower leagues. Some which are now housing estates, and some abroad. Therefore, I'm not overly bothered from a personal standpoint - I've had my shot. But I do want my son and nephews to be given a fair crack of the whip when it's their time. How did you get a ticket for Brentford!? ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, SteV said: How did you get a ticket for Brentford!? ?? I actually take back my post - I completely forgot they had a new ground I went in Jan 2017. Big Daryl Murphy. Was their old ground though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just now, Chicken Dancer said: I actually take back my post - I completely forgot they had a new ground I went in Jan 2017. Big Daryl Murphy. Was their old ground though. At which point I was a ST holder with lots of points...glory days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, jack j said: Shit for people who's circumstances have changed that When I was a youngun trying to get a ticket for the likes of Sunderland away I was told tough luck that's what people put the miles in for, so they can pick and choose, and that was fair enough to me so I went to the less glamorous games for years down in the championship first time etc etc. Don't think that's fair to change now im in the situation those people who telt me tough luck are in because its now popular again because we are half decent I'm lucky if I can do 2 or 3 a season because I've got young kids now I think it would be utter bullshit if my points start dropping off cos I can't go as much now May as well just make it an open ballot for every away game to keep people happy Thing is it's changed now and it's a completely closed shop these days. Even under Keegan in the 90s you could get an away ticket for most games and also allocations were bigger. We'd get 8k for Blackburn amd Sheff Wed, 6k at Sheff Utd, even Arsenal gave us 6k at Highbury in 93/94, so did Everton. Spurs and Man City would give us 4k as would Leeds Nowadays 3k is the max and it's now pretty much impossible for anyone under the age of 14 (when I started going away regularly) to get a foot on the ladder which is a real shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Dancer Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said: Nowadays 3k is the max and it's now pretty much impossible for anyone under the age of 14 Which is exactly the perspective the club should take into consideration. Nothing to do with 'middle-aged blokes using the kids can't go line'. It's an actual fact that the youngsters are going to be unable to attend unless something is done. They are the future after all. That being said, I would imagine things change at the point it becomes relevant. Also - I seem to remember it being a paper application in the early 00s when I started going. Were points even a thing? As I can't remember having an issue getting tickets for most games - Old Trafford, Anfield and the likes. Or was demand just nowhere near as big? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovagod Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Just now, Chicken Dancer said: Which is exactly the perspective the club should take into consideration. Nothing to do with 'middle-aged blokes using the kids can't go line'. It's an actual fact that the youngsters are going to be unable to attend unless something is done. They are the future after all. That being said, I would imagine things change at the point it becomes relevant. Also - I seem to remember it being a paper application in the early 00s when I started going. Were points even a thing? As I can't remember having an issue getting tickets for most games - Old Trafford, Anfield and the likes. Or was demand just nowhere near as big? I think points were still used just it was never really broadcast. I forlornly applied for Sunderland every year, for example, and never got one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 30 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said: Which is exactly the perspective the club should take into consideration. Nothing to do with 'middle-aged blokes using the kids can't go line'. It's an actual fact that the youngsters are going to be unable to attend unless something is done. They are the future after all. That being said, I would imagine things change at the point it becomes relevant. Also - I seem to remember it being a paper application in the early 00s when I started going. Were points even a thing? As I can't remember having an issue getting tickets for most games - Old Trafford, Anfield and the likes. Or was demand just nowhere near as big? I remember queuing all night for a ticket for Blackburn away in 1993 and it was absolute chaos. In the end they had to get the ticket office out of bed and to the ground at around 5am. I think they accepted that they would need to change how away tickets were distributed after that and the Loyalty point system started in 93/94 I think. They were definitely in place the season after that. You filled your slip in and either handed it in or posted it off to the ticket office and you received a ticket or a rejection letter in the post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, jack j said: Put 500 each game to a ballot then that might stop some of the whinging. The clue is in the name though Loyalty points. The away games I've been to since the takeover I've looked around and seen plenty of younguns there. Most the people whinging seem to be middle aged blokes who want tickets for themselves but use the old it's stopping kids getting tickets line I don't agree with the wording ("whigning" etc) but this would be my solution. Doesn't have to be 500 specifically but some amount. It means the loyalty point system is still in play and rewards that "loyalty" but doesn't make it a closed shop for newcomers (like the hypothetical 14-year-old hoping to go on his first away trip). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellis80 Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 It solves the issue of people getting to go now and again but just encourages people with a lot of points to buy every game. Taking x amount out of the allocation means Southampton away might be 70 points rather than 50. Would be the middle band of points getting a bit shafted. Can’t see a solution myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 How does it work for a well-followed successful club like Liverpool, for example? Remember seeing a photo of some of their fans in the away end last season with a banner and the average age can't have been over 15. Unless they've got friends/family with a ton of loyalty points sorting them all out. there's surely no way they'd have had enough themselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 2 hours ago, jack j said: Put 500 each game to a ballot then that might stop some of the whinging. The clue is in the name though Loyalty points. The away games I've been to since the takeover I've looked around and seen plenty of younguns there. Most the people whinging seem to be middle aged blokes who want tickets for themselves but use the old it's stopping kids getting tickets line Issue with a ballot is how do you then manage groups of friends/families? Most people go with someone else. You can link ST/membership accounts, but would you stand less chance if you wanted to go with two or three others? Is there a way to ensure you'd all get a ticket? If one out of a group of four was successful - especially a kid - then the ticket would just go unused or be returned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, WarrenBartonCentrePartin said: Issue with a ballot is how do you then manage groups of friends/families? Most people go with someone else. You can link ST/membership accounts, but would you stand less chance if you wanted to go with two or three others? Is there a way to ensure you'd all get a ticket? If one out of a group of four was successful - especially a kid - then the ticket would just go unused or be returned. Gotta pal who supports rangers and this happens quite alot with them. Luck of the draw. Mind alot of supporters clubs/buses get a chunk of tickets for each game.. not sure if that would work here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, jack j said: Gotta pal who supports rangers and this happens quite alot with them. Luck of the draw. Mind alot of supporters clubs/buses get a chunk of tickets for each game.. not sure if that would work here. Surely that defeats the object!? (or at least it would in our case considering what most peoples argument for change is) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Take it they're not announcing the TV games today? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 Anyone else lost loyalty points as well? Built up around 20 then stopped going to matches in about 2013. Logged back into my account after the takeover and they were gone... Wasn't that many & I don't have a ST anyway so not that bothered, but still a bit annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovagod Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, ElDiablo said: Anyone else lost loyalty points as well? Built up around 20 then stopped going to matches in about 2013. Logged back into my account after the takeover and they were gone... Wasn't that many & I don't have a ST anyway so not that bothered, but still a bit annoying. Lost 90 something when I got rid of my season ticket. Got the ticket back but not the points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 (edited) There was a problem with people buying tickets just to get points for Scotland away games, and the issue of getting on the ladder. For a while they'd make you collect the tickets away and if you were caught not collecting them there was some kind of black mark. Then I think they switched to only doing that to a random sample of people. They then changed it so that now you also get loyalty points for home games. As someone mentioned I think the latter part would be good to encourage attendance at cup games. Personally I don't want anything too strict for my own good. I built up over 100 points then moved across the world and passed on my ST to my dad's mate. He doesn't go away often so most his points were gotten by me. When I go back to visit I'll normally use his ticket to go away to a few games. I'd be gutted to get locked out and would feel it's kind of shan, but also understand that's quite a specific situation, and sort of tough shit on me for moving. I do intend to move back to the region within a few years but will be relying on him even then I imagine, since so hard to get a ST again now. As an aside the only time I ever got knocked back for an away ticket before I left was Tranmere in the FAC QF in 2000. Think we only got allocated 700. Obviously massive game, and I'd been to a lot of games, but I was only 10, so only so many I could've been to! Edited October 11, 2022 by Inferior Acuña Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now