James Maddison (now playing for Tottenham Hotspur)

[Guest]

Maddison being Howe-driven is interesting.

[STM]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you think it's part of the plan to be where we are now at this stage of the window?

Ekitike was the plan IMO. That's been out of the window for a while now.

[Hanshithispantz]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you think it's part of the plan to be where we are now at this stage of the window?

No, but Howe has already said we're pursuing a small number of targets.

 

Luke is making sound like we've been caught off guard by Leicester and are now confused as to what to do next. We'll either put in another bid for Maddison or will move onto one of our other targets.

 

There's no guarantee we get them, but we'll obviously know who we're going for (unless an opportunity pop out of nowhere).

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Maddison being Howe-driven is interesting.

Wonder if it means we will go back in for him again.

[Ikon]

Too much bargaining here. Too bad. Would have been a massive signing.

[JumpersForGoalposts]

Cunt signed yet?

[STM]

Just now, Optimistic Nut said:

Maddison being Howe-driven is interesting.

It's entirely unsurprising. I've always had Howe down as someone who prefers British based players. So long as they are as good as Maddison, I've got no issue with it

 

However, if we want value, we will have to look abroad. For the money we have bid for Maddison, we could have signed Scamacca for example but then there's higher risk with signing players from other leagues.

 

It's a balancing act that I'm sure they are aware of.

[Shearergol]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you think it's part of the plan to be where we are now at this stage of the window?

 

Of course not, but they will have contingencies. You honestly believe that when they submitted the bid they were like "well lads, hope this one gets accepted otherwise we're fucked"?

[NWMag]

I think if we go in with a a bid of 52-54 million, it’s a perfectly reasonable offer and I think Leicester would be tempted to accept. However if they turned it down I wouldn’t blame our club at all, I think 45-50 is his value based on 2 years left on his contract. 

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, STM said:

Ekitike was the plan IMO. That's been out of the window for a while now.

Aye. Do you think we are at the back-up plan or even further down back-up routes?

 

4 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

No, but Howe has already said we're pursuing a small number of targets.

 

Luke is making sound like we've been caught off guard by Leicester and are now confused as to what to do next. We'll either put in another bid for Maddison or will move onto one of our other targets.

 

There's no guarantee we get them, but we'll obviously know who we're going for (unless an opportunity pop out of nowhere).

 

 

 

I've said this before - we are moving like Chelsea who everyone is laughing at.

 

At best Maddison is plan C and if we don't get him - it's proof of miscalculation by the management. Meanwhile other targets are moving on.

 

I presume Burn and Targett were fairly far down our list in January. But the summer market is a more competitive one and we are looking for a higher calibre of player for at least one of the roles.

 

I've no doubt we'll get bodies. I hope we panic and get quality ones too but the management of the window hasn't been good so far and we are relying on late good deals.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

Of course not, but they will have contingencies. You honestly believe that when they submitted the bid they were like "well lads, hope this one gets accepted otherwise we're fucked"?

No but I think Maddison is already a contingency route - not one of our primary targets at the beginning of the summer. With other players moving on. The further down the list we go - the less amount of preparation and analysis we would've done. Which means we are more likely to overspend or get in a player without the right skillset or ability (or get nobody).

 

So far we've shown miscalculation for all of our attacking targets. Most of them haven't even moved on or chosen another team - we've just miscalculated what it would cost to secure them.

[The College Dropout]

Also the fact we've spent 50m on 2 LCB's and 0 on any RW suggests there's been at least 1 miscalculation in transfer approach.

[Vinny Green Balls]

If I was in a coma for two years, I would assume we were still under Ashley’s fat thumb given the preemptive complaining of some on here.

 

one thing to be critical (which is fine), another to be critical just for the sake of it.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Maybe they have miscalculated, but they would be in some fine company in here with the massive levels of miscalculation since the buyout.

[Shearergol]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Also the fact we've spent 50m on 2 LCB's and 0 on any RW suggests there's been at least 1 miscalculation in transfer approach.

 

If the club agrees that we need a right winger, and they don't bring one in by the end of the window, I would agree with you.

[STM]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Also the fact we've spent 50m on 2 LCB's and 0 on any RW suggests there's been at least 1 miscalculation in transfer approach.

 

I think you are being incredibly harsh on our transfer strategy.

 

If we had signed Botman in January, he may (we can't know for sure) have cost us close to 50m on his own. Therefore if anything we have come out of it with an extra player in Burn, and a good player at that.

 

On your previous point you said that we have an approach like Chelsea, which I believe is that you are suggesting that once we have missed out on our main target we have a scatter gun approach. Surely you don't think the Ekitike thing was preventable? He pretty much admitted he agreed to join us before PSG came in. Therefore if you accept that it was an unforseen situation, you have to cut them some slack for having to go back to the drawing board?

 

Personally, I think they have looked at comparable players to Eikitike; young versatile forward players with great potential and found nobody who comes close in terms of valuation. Therefore they have switched tactics and are now looking at other profiles, I.e attacking players wide and central.

 

My gut says they have decided against trying to sign an out and out striker, given our lack of links to one. This will annoy alot of people as its seen as a risk. Its only a risk this season. Not to their long term strategy.

 

IMO they have two objectives; 1. Strengthen as much as they can and 2. Don't over pay for players based on their valuations.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, STM said:

It's entirely unsurprising. I've always had Howe down as someone who prefers British based players. So long as they are as good as Maddison, I've got no issue with it

 

However, if we want value, we will have to look abroad. For the money we have bid for Maddison, we could have signed Scamacca for example but then there's higher risk with signing players from other leagues.

 

It's a balancing act that I'm sure they are aware of.

 

I just see it as Ashworth, Nickson, etc will have a list of options for certain positions so if they don't get option 1, there's 3-4 in the same bracket they'll move on to. If this is Howe wanting Maddison I think it's more likely we'll try a bit harder for him.

[BlazeT44]

"We only want a football club that tries" -- the sentiment of many during the Ashley era.

Now we're complaining that we spent 50m on 2CBs and are chasing players in the 40-60m bracket, regardless of whether they're 1st, 2nd or 6th choice.

Give your head a shake man.

[The Prophet]

The problem is that certain fans (aimed at no one in particular) make assumptions about our recruitment process, but present them factually. Those fans then get frustrated with those assumptions.

 

I love to speculate as much as the next man (especially due to the lack of football and this being our first post-Ashley summer window), but there has to be some appreciation that we only get a very limited glimpse of our activity via journalist. Those journalists, by their own admission, have a limited insight themselves and are often briefed by an agenda driven source.

 

Factually all we really know is that Ashworth started the gig in June. Since then we've brought in Targett, Pope and Botman for around the £60 million mark. We also know that we tried and failed to sign Ekitike (fee unconfirmed) and that we've had two bids knocked back for Maddison (amounts unconfirmed). Eddie has since said that he wants to sign a couple of players before the window closes. Everything else is just speculation. We will guess and try to make sense of what's going on, but ultimately it's pointless getting frustrated with a process that we aren't privy to and know very little about.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, STM said:

 

I think you are being incredibly harsh on our transfer strategy.

 

If we had signed Botman in January, he may (we can't know for sure) have cost us close to 50m on his own. Therefore if anything we have come out of it with an extra player in Burn, and a good player at that.

 

On your previous point you said that we have an approach like Chelsea, which I believe is that you are suggesting that once we have missed out on our main target we have a scatter gun approach. Surely you don't think the Ekitike thing was preventable? He pretty much admitted he agreed to join us before PSG came in. Therefore if you accept that it was an unforseen situation, you have to cut them some slack for having to go back to the drawing board?

 

Personally, I think they have looked at comparable players to Eikitike; young versatile forward players with great potential and found nobody who comes close in terms of valuation. Therefore they have switched tactics and are now looking at other profiles, I.e attacking players wide and central.

 

My gut says they have decided against trying to sign an out and out striker, given our lack of links to one. This will annoy alot of people as its seen as a risk. Its only a risk this season. Not to their long term strategy.

 

IMO they have two objectives; 1. Strengthen as much as they can and 2. Don't over pay for players based on their valuations.

I think the bolded is true but at some point 1 & 2 clash and you have to make a decision one way or the other in terms of priorities.

 

WE'll never know how much it would've cost to bring in Botman in January. But we've ended up with a 14m backup stop-gap player for 6 months with little resale value which is not ideal.

 

I agree I think we are prioritising player value over most things - including first team strength. If it was simply a budgetary issue. I would've preferred to keep Burn as first choice and use that £35m for Botman to contribute towards a RW & ST at the right quality point (even if we over pay a little - and we both think c/ £54m for Maddison is fair). But I think they have a valuation issue and our valuation of attackers is so far out of loop with the rest of the market which is frustrating.

[The College Dropout]

9 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

The problem is that certain fans (aimed at no one in particular) make assumptions about our recruitment process, but present them factually. Those fans then get frustrated with those assumptions.

 

I love to speculate as much as the next man (especially due to the lack of football and this being our first post-Ashley summer window), but there has to be some appreciation that we only get a very limited glimpse of our activity via journalist. Those journalists, by their own admission, have a limited insight themselves and are often briefed by an agenda driven source.

 

Factually all we really know is that Ashworth started the gig in June. Since then we've brought in Targett, Pope and Botman for around the £60 million mark. We also know that we tried and failed to sign Ekitike (fee unconfirmed) and that we've had two bids knocked back for Maddison (amounts unconfirmed). Eddie has since said that he wants to sign a couple of players before the window closes. Everything else is just speculation. We will guess and try to make sense of what's going on, but ultimately it's pointless getting frustrated with a process that we aren't privy to and know very little about.

This is fair but equally this is a football forum and a James Maddison thread. What else are we meant to talk about in here? The title gives you the headline story. Everyone in here will just discuss ideas and hypothesis.

 

Some people don't like to read criticism of the owners / management. They don't want the fanbase to be ungrateful.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by The College Dropout

[Hanshithispantz]

38 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. Do you think we are at the back-up plan or even further down back-up routes?

 

I've said this before - we are moving like Chelsea who everyone is laughing at.

 

At best Maddison is plan C and if we don't get him - it's proof of miscalculation by the management. Meanwhile other targets are moving on.

 

I presume Burn and Targett were fairly far down our list in January. But the summer market is a more competitive one and we are looking for a higher calibre of player for at least one of the roles.

 

I've no doubt we'll get bodies. I hope we panic and get quality ones too but the management of the window hasn't been good so far and we are relying on late good deals.

All we know is that Botman and Ekitike were two of our main targets, we got Botman and nearly got Ekitike. Beyond that we've seeminly bid for Harrison, Diaby, and are ongoing with Maddison. If other clubs are not willing to sell for a price we think is fair the it's not going to happen. We'll probably not know that until we've hoyed a bid in though.

 

We're not actually desperate for players, so I'm not sure why we should be overspending at this stage?

[Kanj]

I think it’s a little presumptuous to tier any of the summer targets we’ve officially bid for - not every club who’s working through a rebuild is able to methodically build exact positions and move on accordingly. It’s difficult for normal clubs, and it’s showing it’s even more difficult for a club owned by a sovereign wealth fund that everyone expects to pay above and beyond. 
 

re: Maddison, I get the feeling it’s something we’ve been working on very very very discreetly with his people before feeling now was the time to approach Leicester. 
 

It’s very clear the way transfers are done are through club to agents and then the agents try and give the green light to approach a club. 

[Hanshithispantz]

The thing with some of the posts on here, isn't that it's wrong to feel disappointed or frustrated that we haven't signed X, Y, or Z. It's the feeding into the narrative that we're either clueless, just sort of throwing darts at a board, are making derisory and pointless bids for players, or need to be buying X player NOW.

[Kanj]

1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said:

All we know is that Botman and Ekitike were two of our main targets, we got Botman and nearly got Ekitike. Beyond that we've seeminly bid for Harrison, Diaby, and are ongoing with Maddison. If other clubs are not willing to sell for a price we think is fair the it's not going to happen. We'll probably not know that until we've hoyed a bid in though.

 

We're not actually desperate for players, so I'm not sure why we should be overspending at this stage?

did we get sky tickers for Harrison and Diaby or isak?