Still not worthy of a thread

[HawK]

So we don't believe in freedom of speech anymore, great. I might not agree with her views, but she shouldn't be punished for saying them. It's not as if she's made direct threats of violence against anyone. What a world this has become :/

[Stifler]

2 minutes ago, HawK said:

So we don't believe in freedom of speech anymore, great. I might not agree with her views, but she shouldn't be punished for saying them. It's not as if she's made direct threats of violence against anyone. What a world this has become :/

Maybe read up on what freedom of speech is.

[HawK]

Just now, Stifler said:

Maybe read up on what freedom of speech is.

 

I think it would be quicker for our conversation if you just tell me what it means to you

[christ]

13 minutes ago, HawK said:

So we don't believe in freedom of speech anymore, great. I might not agree with her views, but she shouldn't be punished for saying them. It's not as if she's made direct threats of violence against anyone. What a world this has become :/

If I repeatedly and vocally accuse you of wanting to fuck kids then you’re fine with that, aye? Because I’m just exercising my freedom of speech?

 

The club have a duty of care to fans in the stadium, including our sizeable LGBTQ fanbase. She’s demonstrated through her posting she’s an absolute lunatic. What happens if a trans supporter goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if - as is often the case with this lot - someone that she thinks is trans goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if she encounters a trans supporter in the concourse or one has to sit next to her?

The club might be being overly sensitive given the reputation of our owners, but she’s given them more than enough evidence to boot her out.

[Erikse]

 

Defensive midfielders are rarely included in the "best player in the world" discussions. Definetly the player that would hurt them the most if he got injured, I'd even say that he's their best player overall. Probably also better than Mbappe overall. I don't think that he's better than Bellingham though.

 

 

Edited February 7 by Erikse

[Pancrate1892]

14 minutes ago, christ said:

If I repeatedly and vocally accuse you of wanting to fuck kids then you’re fine with that, aye? Because I’m just exercising my freedom of speech?

 

The club have a duty of care to fans in the stadium, including our sizeable LGBTQ fanbase. She’s demonstrated through her posting she’s an absolute lunatic. What happens if a trans supporter goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if - as is often the case with this lot - someone that she thinks is trans goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if she encounters a trans supporter in the concourse or one has to sit next to her?

The club might be being overly sensitive given the reputation of our owners, but she’s given them more than enough evidence to boot her out.

Isn't she a member of the LGBTQ fanbase? 

 

Did she actually say she was going to kick trans people? 

 

Do you think she's going to spend all game with anti trans banners and slagging them off all game? 

 

If they look at our whole history of texts, tweets and general conduct are they likely to find out that we are perfect human beings?

 

Nobody is perfect and if you think the seats should be reserved for perfect people then there would be about 200 people in the crowd 

[Conjo]

50 minutes ago, HawK said:

So we don't believe in freedom of speech anymore, great. I might not agree with her views, but she shouldn't be punished for saying them. It's not as if she's made direct threats of violence against anyone. What a world this has become :/

 

She's still free to spew hate against trans people as much as she wants. Where has her speech been limited exactly?

[80]

Will be a laugh when people who contextualise Palestinian attacks against Israel start getting banned from grounds.

[HawK]

8 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

She's still free to spew hate against trans people as much as she wants. Where has her speech been limited exactly?

 

I thought we've barred her from attending because of things she's written on Twitter? I admit I've really not looked into it beyond that at all, I could be mistaken.

[christ]

14 minutes ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Isn't she a member of the LGBTQ fanbase? 

 

Did she actually say she was going to kick trans people? 

 

Do you think she's going to spend all game with anti trans banners and slagging them off all game? 

 

If they look at our whole history of texts, tweets and general conduct are they likely to find out that we are perfect human beings?

 

Nobody is perfect and if you think the seats should be reserved for perfect people then there would be about 200 people in the crowd 

Who is demanding perfection? I think it’s reasonable to suggest people maybe shouldn’t post inflammatory, bigoted nonsense all over social media. If they want to that’s fine, but you can’t moan about consequences.

[GEFAFWISP]

3 minutes ago, HawK said:

 

I thought we've barred her from attending because of things she's written on Twitter? I admit I've really not looked into it beyond that at all, I could be mistaken.

Doesn't impinge on her freedom to continue saying those things though.

 

The issue is whether you agree with the club banning people for sharing those views publicly.

 

 

Edited February 7 by GEFAFWISP

[HawK]

43 minutes ago, christ said:

If I repeatedly and vocally accuse you of wanting to fuck kids then you’re fine with that, aye? Because I’m just exercising my freedom of speech?

 

The club have a duty of care to fans in the stadium, including our sizeable LGBTQ fanbase. She’s demonstrated through her posting she’s an absolute lunatic. What happens if a trans supporter goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if - as is often the case with this lot - someone that she thinks is trans goes into the toilet when she’s in there? What happens if she encounters a trans supporter in the concourse or one has to sit next to her?

The club might be being overly sensitive given the reputation of our owners, but she’s given them more than enough evidence to boot her out.

 

Directly defaming individuals with slander or threatening violence is against the law and should be treat as such, but holding and expressing opinions about groups of people isn't though. I'll say again, I might not like nor agree with what opinions people have or express, but being selective on allowing entry to a football game only if you hold compatible opinions and views doesn't align with the laws of a democratic society.

[Eveready]

She done anything directly to NUFC or away supporters at the stadium?

 

 

If not then it seems a bit much trawling through supporters social media posts to see if they've said anything hateful in the past.

 

[christ]

5 minutes ago, HawK said:

 

Directly defaming individuals with slander or threatening violence is against the law and should be treat as such, but holding and expressing opinions about groups of people isn't though. I'll say again, I might not like nor agree with what opinions people have or express, but being selective on allowing entry to a football game only if you hold compatible opinions and views doesn't align with the laws of a democratic society.

It very much feels like you’re trampling over my freedom of speech. Funny that.

[HawK]

3 minutes ago, christ said:

It very much feels like you’re trampling over my freedom of speech. Funny that.

 

Oh come on

[80]

What would your view be on the contents of our Gaza thread being used to bar you and others from SJP?

[Eveready]

As far as I can see she hasn’t incited violence at all.

 

My view on free speech is that you agree with free speech even for the opinions that repulse you the most, or you don’t agree with free speech.

 

The free part meaning that you’re not punished for expressing your views.

 

Personally, as an ethic minority, I do think hate speech should be protected.  I’d much rather know if someone thinks I’m a cunt than them smile and nod whilst they really hate me due to the colour of my skin.

[HawK]

6 minutes ago, 80 said:

What would your view be on the contents of our Gaza thread being used to bar you and others from SJP?

 

My view?

[madras]

I wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye as they could ban thousands "purely" on the social media musings.

[christ]

1 minute ago, HawK said:

 

Oh come on

Mad how free speech absolutists love to hide behind defamation law when it involves them being painted in a bad light.

 

She doesn’t just have ‘opinions’ on gender identity, she’s literally saying trans people are the worst kind of sexual deviant. Not in an off hand way either. She’s directly accusing transgender people of being paedophiles and that sexually assaulting people one of the main motivators of their transitioning.

 

She’ll not have been banned because of her views, she’ll have been banned because she poses a potential risk to the club and fans.

[Wolfcastle]

Wonder if those of us that fired off emails to the PL during the whole protracted takeover palaver have dossiers on them.

Mine was clean but had a few pops in it.

 

Seems weird how it's deployed. How would Rangers/Celtic be policed and what of the makems that troll every post from someone at our club.

[80]

2 minutes ago, HawK said:

 

My view?

Sorry, was intended mainly for @christ

[Pancrate1892]

4 minutes ago, christ said:

Who is demanding perfection? I think it’s reasonable to suggest people maybe shouldn’t post inflammatory, bigoted nonsense all over social media. If they want to that’s fine, but you can’t moan about consequences.

Your spot on - it's absolutely reasonable to suggest people shouldn't post inflammatory bigoted nonsense comments all over social media

But it's the sanctimonious policing of what you/them/him/her define as hate speech is problematic

For example 

Are jokes hate speech? (No matter how crass)

Are concerns hate speech? (No matter how misguided) 

Can people just be allowed to be proved wrong or right as long as they aren't suggesting physical violence? 

 

There is irony in consequences, because there could be real consequences now she is unmasked she gets attacked (actual violence not words on the internet) or maybe someone tries to burn her house down with her in it? 

Would that be ok to fit the crime the police found her not guilty of? Would that be a hate crime or justice? 

 

 

 

[christ]

Just now, Pancrate1892 said:

Your spot on - it's absolutely reasonable to suggest people shouldn't post inflammatory bigoted nonsense comments all over social media

But it's the sanctimonious policing of what you/them/him/her define as hate speech is problematic

For example 

Are jokes hate speech? (No matter how crass)

Are concerns hate speech? (No matter how misguided) 

Can people just be allowed to be proved wrong or right as long as they aren't suggesting physical violence? 

 

There is irony in consequences, because there could be real consequences now she is unmasked she gets attacked (actual violence not words on the internet) or maybe someone tries to burn her house down with her in it? 

Would that be ok to fit the crime the police found her not guilty of? Would that be a hate crime or justice? 

 

 

 

Two things:

 

1) These aren’t jokes or concerns. She’s basically peddling far right conspiracies.

2) She unmasked herself by posting this shite publicly in her own name.

[christ]

15 minutes ago, 80 said:

What would your view be on the contents of our Gaza thread being used to bar you and others from SJP?

I don’t think I accused either the Israelis or Palestinians of diddling kids?