Match Atmosphere

[Wallsendmag]

The bottom line is that we have the oldest, most miserable home crowd in the league. That's the sad facts right there. Look around the Gallowgate on a matchday and you'll see exactly what I mean and that's our so called home end. They would never, ever get up out their seats singing like they are in that Stretford End video. It just wouldn't happen. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Wallsendmag

[HaydnNUFC]

To play devil's advocate, that Man Utd video is a video of a dedicated singing section in the first game played at a full Old Trafford for the first time since COVID hit. Against Leeds, whom they have a bit enmity with. Quite the cherry pick. 

 

BTW I agree with what most are saying that the bulk of SJP are miserable and the atmosphere can be improved. The club need singing section(s) and safe standing, offer those who don't want to be part of it for whatever reason the option of picking alternate seats anywhere in the ground. But make them move if they don't.

[Wallsendmag]

40 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

To play devil's advocate, that Man Utd video is a video of a dedicated singing section in the first game played at a full Old Trafford for the first time since COVID hit. Against Leeds, whom they have a bit enmity with. Quite the cherry pick. 

 

BTW I agree with what most are saying that the bulk of SJP are miserable and the atmosphere can be improved. The club need singing section(s) and safe standing, offer those who don't want to be part of it for whatever reason the option of picking alternate seats anywhere in the ground. But make them move if they don't.

 

Tbh look at any Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Spurs, West Ham, Aston Villa game these days and you'll see the fans behind both goals are now permanently stood which more or less is guaranteed to instantly improve the atmosphere. 

 

Aside from those clubs mentioned, Liverpool have the Kop that stands for 90 mins, Everton the Gwladys Street, Wolves Southbank, all who stand for the full match. Even Man City have a good few thousand standers either side of the away fans.

 

We maybe have 500 or so. The rest sit there, arms folded, not really contributing a great deal. As I say we have an aged, miserable (battle weary even) crowd. They're trailing a standing area in the area where they have the most standees anyway and there's still moaning. Imagine the outrage if they tried to do a full stand!

 

Personally, after the Wembley fiasco, which is what has probably brought all this to a head, I would have done what Chelsea did and say "look we are converting this full stand (Gallowgate in our case) into safe standing. You can take it or leave it but that's what's happening. If you want to move we'll find you alternative seating". Over 25% of Stamford Bridge is now safe standing and it's improved their atmosphere enormously. I'll probably in the minority here but I think the club need to be more ruthless. If they upset the miserable, sit there arms folded brigade then tough shit.

[HaydnNUFC]

6 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Tbh look at any Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Spurs, West Ham, Aston Villa game these days and you'll see the fans behind both goals are now permanently stood which more or less is guaranteed to instantly improve the atmosphere. 

 

Aside from those clubs mentioned, Liverpool have the Kop that stands for 90 mins, Everton the Gwladys Street, Wolves Southbank, all who stand for the full match. Even Man City have a good few thousand standers either side of the away fans.

 

We maybe have 500 or so. The rest sit there, arms folded, not really contributing a great deal. As I say we have an aged, miserable (battle weary even) crowd. They're trailing a standing area in the area where they have the most standees anyway and there's still moaning. Imagine the outrage if they tried to do a full stand!

 

Personally, after the Wembley fiasco, which is what has probably brought all this to a head, I would have done what Chelsea did and say "look we are converting this full stand (Gallowgate in our case) into safe standing. You can take it or leave it but that's what's happening. If you want to move we'll find you alternative seating". Over 25% of Stamford Bridge is now safe standing and it's improved their atmosphere enormously. I'll probably in the minority here but I think the club need to be more ruthless. If they upset the miserable, sit there arms folded brigade then tough shit.

 

Agree with all of that. 

 

Many of the clubs you've mentioned which have safe standing or areas where fans stand all game anyway however when they get ranked by neutrals for atmosphere rarely beat SJP. Ones I've spoken to and seen online anyway. Opposition managers have tended to agree as well.

 

I digress, I had a deek at some old nufc.com match reports over the years to see what the craic was for things about the atmosphere: we have been complaining (maybe rightly) about the atmosphere for over 20 years now.

 

2023: "That lack of inspiration also seemed to permeate into the crowd today, with patchy outbreaks of support rather than a wall of sound."

2017: "Even in a season when the ground has been quiet, at times this was almost eerily silent."

2008: "Noise and support for KK was predictably good at the start but waned as the action became uninspiring."

2007: "Support to the home side - virtually non-existent."

2003: "For the most part the home fans sat quietly in the manner of attendees at a self-help group meeting waiting for their turn to speak."

 

And this one, a bit of a longer one, but one that matches many what people on here are saying and matches how I feel.*

 

2002: "If we don't get 4th spot - which still looks an odds on bet that we will, every time I look at the fixtures and league table - then the blame needs to be shouldered by many, not least those who refuse to encourage the team on cold Monday night's when we're having an off day. Do you think the players are lying when they talk about being motivated by the crowd? Do you think they're just looking for an easy life when they suggest that booing doesn't help them? I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that even after Fulham scored, the crowd could have lifted the lads to go on and win that game. Instead we threw away the alleged one-goal lead that our "magnificent 50,000 crowd" gives us.

"We only sing when we're 3-0 down" should become our anthem. "We're Geordies we're mental, we're off our f***in' heads". Aye, because we never use our strongest asset when it's needed most - when the lads are having a bad day and when we need a lift from somewhere. Cast your minds back to Old Trafford and the semi-final against Spurs. The crowd won that game with the fantastic support that greeted Big Dunc's substitution. Singing when you're getting stuffed 3-0 at Highbury or 6-2 up against Everton is wasted effort. Save it for the remaining games, if we're struggling against Blackburn, West Ham, Charlton, Southampton or Derby. That's when the team needs to be encouraged not discouraged.

St. James' Park gets more like Old Trafford every day. If we had a similar trophy cabinet then I could probably accept it but our club is nothing if we lose the unconditional support. Yes, I get frustrated and bad-mouth some players during the game but as much as I kid myself it's only me and the people around me who hear my rantings. It's just noise to the players. Shouting and bawling during the game is how I vent my anger and I won't applaud a performance that doesn't merit it - it's amazing how deafening silence can be at the end of a game. A chorus of boos is something different. 

It's been my belief for some time that the nation gets the media and politicians it deserves. Buy crap papers and they'll serve up more crap. Watch trashy telly and that's what you'll get. Moan that politicians are all the same and not worth voting for and.... you get the picture. I'm fed up of being told by SKY that we deserve something to match our tremendous support. As far as I'm concerned, the events on the pitch on Monday night matched our support perfectly."

 

*Asterisking that as I do really feel that the atmosphere can and should be improved and agree that the club should say "like it or lump it, these blocks in the Gallowgate and more are going to be safe standing, if you don't want to be amongst it then move, if you don't move and request an alternative seat by XX/XX/XXXX you will randomly allocated an alternative seat elsewhere in the ground". BUT, I do think we're a bit overcritical of the home atmosphere atm. It's just like many other PL grounds, more up for games v top opposition than against Bournemouth and Palace. Reacts to events that transpire in the game. Kick off times affecting the volume. The ground has been brilliant this season v Man City and v Villa and was fantastic vast majority of the games under Howe last season. That seems to have been the case at SJP for over 20 years now going by .com reports; fantastic atmosphere v Arsenal on a Sunday 16:30 kick off but silent against Birmingham at 3pm or QPR midweek. Obviously we'd rather that not be the case but it seems to be par for the course across the league. 

[Whitley mag]

12 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

To play devil's advocate, that Man Utd video is a video of a dedicated singing section in the first game played at a full Old Trafford for the first time since COVID hit. Against Leeds, whom they have a bit enmity with. Quite the cherry pick. 

 

BTW I agree with what most are saying that the bulk of SJP are miserable and the atmosphere can be improved. The club need singing section(s) and safe standing, offer those who don't want to be part of it for whatever reason the option of picking alternate seats anywhere in the ground. But make them move if they don't.

Far from a cherry pick but even if it was can you genuinely say we make that much noise in our big games consistently like they do ? 
 

We undoubtedly have moments where the whole ground gets going and it’s loud, but we don’t have consistent vocal support on that level. A big game for us this season would be Southampton in league cup, there were large periods of eerie silence throughout.

 

A singing section helps but does that explain the whole upper tier and lower tier of Stretford End standing, that’s majority of games and not just big ones either.

 

We’d never have that at St Jame’s currently due to the clientele. Now Old Trafford did have a large period where there atmosphere was shite, the point is whether through ground expansion or what they seem to have done something about it.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Whitley mag

[Wandy]

14 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Here’s an 8 minute sample of the Stretford End all standing and singing. I fucking despise the cunts but i don’t see how anyone can say our current atmosphere compares.

 

I’ve seen every argument under the sun on here such as large stadiums aren’t conducive, times have changed etc.

 

But that’s all it is excuses, for this video I could have pulled out one from Leeds, Forrest etc which again would piss all over our current atmosphere.

 

The Strawberry Corner is a start but to see fans already whingeing on about having to stand is embarrassing, especially when you’ve got practically a full end standing up in this video.

 

There needs to be a massive fan culture shift at SJP starting with the Strawberry corner.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AFpCzxlByc

 

Yeah, that's class. And the exact kind of atmosphere we need on Sunday to help beat them. You can guarantee that they will be making plenty of noise, and rubbing the cup final defeat into our faces. Unfortunately I can see our crowd being flat again.

 

And yeah, the SJP atmosphere has been poor on plenty of occasions over the last 20 years.....in fact you could argue that a section of our home crowd have been in a permanent sulk since we blew the title in 96..... but there is something different about the current situation. Our support has become very, very generic with a pitiful song book and only reacting to in-game events, rather than being proactive and changing the course of a game.

 

Giving the Strawberry corner an all standing section is a tiny start, but it has to be the seed for something much, much bigger.

[Hovagod]

Man Utd fans were completely silent at SJP last year and our crowd was excellent. This love in with Man Utd's away support is such a weird offshoot of their lavish success in the 90s. When have they ever demonstrated defiance in the face of their more recent set of circumstances? They fucked off like Sunderland fans during their hammerings at both City and Liverpool. When did you last see a half empty away end of ours way before full time?

[Wandy]

31 minutes ago, Hovagod said:

Man Utd fans were completely silent at SJP last year and our crowd was excellent. This love in with Man Utd's away support is such a weird offshoot of their lavish success in the 90s. When have they ever demonstrated defiance in the face of their more recent set of circumstances? They fucked off like Sunderland fans during their hammerings at both City and Liverpool. When did you last see a half empty away end of ours way before full time?

 

I agree with you on this to a large extent. Yeah, their hardcore is excellent and regularly makes a lot of noise. But then, considering how successful they have been over the last 30 years, so they should be.

 

My experience of them is that, when a game is gone for them...or looks like it has gone...then they go missing.

 

There isn't a Man Utd fan under the age of at least 50 that has tasted real adversity. And I mean the kind of adversity when you genuinely hate your club for what it stands for,

[NUFC91]

On 30/03/2023 at 01:15, Wallsendmag said:

 

Tbh look at any Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds, Spurs, West Ham, Aston Villa game these days and you'll see the fans behind both goals are now permanently stood which more or less is guaranteed to instantly improve the atmosphere. 

 

Aside from those clubs mentioned, Liverpool have the Kop that stands for 90 mins, Everton the Gwladys Street, Wolves Southbank, all who stand for the full match. Even Man City have a good few thousand standers either side of the away fans.

 

We maybe have 500 or so. The rest sit there, arms folded, not really contributing a great deal. As I say we have an aged, miserable (battle weary even) crowd. They're trailing a standing area in the area where they have the most standees anyway and there's still moaning. Imagine the outrage if they tried to do a full stand!

 

Personally, after the Wembley fiasco, which is what has probably brought all this to a head, I would have done what Chelsea did and say "look we are converting this full stand (Gallowgate in our case) into safe standing. You can take it or leave it but that's what's happening. If you want to move we'll find you alternative seating". Over 25% of Stamford Bridge is now safe standing and it's improved their atmosphere enormously. I'll probably in the minority here but I think the club need to be more ruthless. If they upset the miserable, sit there arms folded brigade then tough shit.

 

This...

 

All we need is reshuffle. If you get 8k of the right personal stood together it would be million miles better. Too much of a mix rather than people who want a sing along.

[NUFC91]

Also these fucking idiots who say "well it does not increase capacity" are also whats wrong...alongside the i cannot stand for 90 mins brigade but also won't move seata arseholes

[BoSelecta]

I really hope the club are considering the full Gallowgate standing.

[Danh1]

1 hour ago, NUFC91 said:

Also these fucking idiots who say "well it does not increase capacity" are also whats wrong...alongside the i cannot stand for 90 mins brigade but also won't move seata arseholes

Hopefully anyone in that category gets made redundant and can no longer afford their season ticket. Harsh but I don’t care, spiteful cunts. 

[madras]

16 minutes ago, Danh1 said:

Hopefully anyone in that category gets made redundant and can no longer afford their season ticket. Harsh but I don’t care, spiteful cunts. 

Yeah cos everyone should just give you what you want.

 

Doesn't affect me I'm in level 7, I could stand for the game but now, given the choice I'll sit, but fuck me the way you lot are going on. You've got people sat there for years with friends, built up loads of relationships with people around and are a bit pissed off that they might have to move to worse seats away from their friends so people who in their eyes may have just bounced in on the back of the takeover can sing a bit.

 

I'm in favour of safe standing and could see it eventually being more than a 1:1 ratio, but bugger me, anyone against is a spiteful cunt ? 

[bobbydazzla]

Why would you rather sit than stand ?

 

Unless they are physically incapable of standing for 90 mins I’m intrigued why someone would rather watch a match sitting down.

 

Sitting dampens the experience in my opinion and when I have to sit down at a match or gig it feels frustrating, like I’m not fully involved. 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by bobbydazzla

[Whitley mag]

Don’t see the problem they’ll be offered a comparable seat by the club, at the end of the day you have a season ticket you don’t own the fucking seat.

[madras]

Just now, bobbydazzla said:

Why would you rather sit than stand ?

 

Unless they are physically incapable of standing for 90 mins I’m intrigued why someone would rather watch a match sitting down.

 

It dampens the experience in my opinion and when I sit down at a match or gig it feels frustrating, like I’m not fully involved. 

 

I used to think that, especially until moving up into level 7, now I can't sing for mumbling to myself manager style as I can see the play play out like never before. It's not being  involved, tou can only do that on the pitch (and that's from someone who was home and away from the early 80s, coming back from every game hoarse from singing), now it's a concentration,  I get so wrapped up in it that way.

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Don’t see the problem they’ll be offered a comparable seat by the club, at the end of the day you have a season ticket you don’t own the fucking seat.

And if they are worse seats, a group of 3 for 6 people  ? At the end of the day they could say you have to sit. 

[OCOCOL]

2 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Don’t see the problem they’ll be offered a comparable seat by the club, at the end of the day you have a season ticket you don’t own the fucking seat.

The bond / save our seats debacle proved  that point in law too (although I still agree that was a pisstake by the club).

 

It shows how things come full circle as years ago the standing area got scrapped to extend the corporate offering. 

[bobbydazzla]

13 minutes ago, OCOCOL said:

The bond / save our seats debacle proved  that point in law too (although I still agree that was a pisstake by the club).

 

It shows how things come full circle as years ago the standing area got scrapped to extend the corporate offering. 

Well strictly speaking all standing areas in grounds were forced to be scrapped cos of the Taylor report and the government response to it

 

Fair enough having some seated areas in grounds as there always be some who want to sit, but I’d love it if we got back to vast majority standing at football matches 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by bobbydazzla

[bobbydazzla]

20 minutes ago, madras said:

I used to think that, especially until moving up into level 7, now I can't sing for mumbling to myself manager style as I can see the play play out like never before. It's not being  involved, tou can only do that on the pitch (and that's from someone who was home and away from the early 80s, coming back from every game hoarse from singing), now it's a concentration,  I get so wrapped up in it that way.

But why is it better to mumble to yourself sitting down rather than standing up ? 
 

The eagle eye view from L7 of the tactics unfolding on the pitch isn’t compromised by standing up

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by bobbydazzla

[madras]

4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

But why is it better to mumble to yourself sitting down rather than standing up ? 
 

The eagle eye view from L7 of the tactics unfolding on the pitch isn’t compromised by standing up

 

 

 

I wouldn't say better, probably more natural for me. Cant say I felt more part of it when I was standing to be honest.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by madras

[bobbydazzla]

8 minutes ago, madras said:

I wouldn't say better, probably more natural for me. Cant say I felt more part of it when I was standing to be honest.

 

 

 

I should have used “preferable” rather than “better”

 

Standing just creates a more vibrant atmosphere I reckon.

 

Sitting down is for quiet events, the cinema, a classical music concert, a relaxing pint with a mate. Standing up is for when you want to make some noise, be animated, create some hustle and bustle. 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by bobbydazzla

[madras]

1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said:

I should have used “preferable” rather than “better”

 

Standing just creates a more vibrant atmosphere I reckon.

 

Sitting down is for quiet events, the cinema, a classical music concert, a relaxing pint with a mate. Standing up is for when you want to make some noise, be animated, create some hustle and bustle. 

 

 

 

And there should be room for both, I've done both and get exactly what you mean and hopefully the club can accommodate everyone ie move those that don't want to stand to seats that they're happy with and if not I can understand them being pissed off.

 

Calling them spiteful cunts for being pissed off about it is just fucking childish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OCOCOL]

22 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Well strictly speaking all standing areas in grounds were forced to be scrapped cos of the Taylor report and the government response to it

 

Fair enough having some seated areas in grounds as there always be some who want to sit, but I’d love it if we got back to vast majority standing at football matches 

 

 

 

 

It wasn’t a designated standing area. This was post the Taylor report requirements when our singing area was the milburn / Leazes corner before the ground extension. The most vocal fans at the time stood / sat there and although many had purchased a £500 bond on top of their season tickets to (they thought) guarantee their seat for 10 years the club wanted to extend the corporate area and took fans who opposed being moved to court. 
 

Although the club won the legal argument that the fans only had the right to “a seat” not “their seat” the judge acknowledged that it was a loophole and the fans had been shafted. 
 

From memory the fans (ie those not directly affected)  were more United than I guess would be the case now. But as I said things come full circle.

[Whitley mag]

3 minutes ago, OCOCOL said:

It wasn’t a designated standing area. This was post the Taylor report requirements when our singing area was the milburn / Leazes corner before the ground extension. The most vocal fans at the time stood / sat there and although many had purchased a £500 bond on top of their season tickets to (they thought) guarantee their seat for 10 years the club wanted to extend the corporate area and took fans who opposed being moved to court. 
 

Although the club won the legal argument that the fans only had the right to “a seat” not “their seat” the judge acknowledged that it was a loophole and the fans had been shafted. 
 

From memory the fans (ie those not directly affected)  were more United than I guess would be the case now. But as I said things come full circle.

The whole ground stood as one for 45 minutes was it against Derby can’t remember. Must have been a much younger and fitter fan base in those days, not sure the current lot could manage 2 minutes without telling cunts to sit down.