Champions League 2023/2024: Group F (Newcastle, Milan, Dortmund, PSG)

[Optimistic Nut]

Just now, Paullow said:

That would be incredible, but it would then simply come down to overall goal difference, then goals scored.

 

• If more than two teams were tied, and after applying all head-to-head criteria above, a subset of teams were still tied, all head-to-head criteria above were reapplied exclusively to this subset of teams;
• Goal difference in all group matches;
• Goals scored in all group matches;
• Away goals scored in all group matches;
• Wins in all group matches;
• Away wins in all group matches;
• Disciplinary points (direct red card = 3 points; double yellow card = 3 points; single yellow card = 1 point);
• UEFA club coefficient.

 

Aye, I mean if by some miracle that happened then we'd finish on at least +1, PSG on +1, Borussia no better than 0 and Milan likely around 0 or -1 unless they thumped Dortmund, so we'd likely go through. 

[Doctor Zaius]

If Milan win at home to Dortmund and we lose to PSG thats it done and dusted for us, meaning the final group game is a dead rubber, which would be a crying shame. Really wanted a PSG win tonight to avoid that.

[Optimistic Nut]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

If Milan win at home to Dortmund and we lose to PSG thats it done and dusted for us, meaning the final group game is a dead rubber, which would be a crying shame. Really wanted a PSG win tonight to avoid that.

 

If PSG had won then CL was pretty much done and dusted, though. Surely we're here to dream about qualification? 

[Doctor Zaius]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

If PSG had won then CL was pretty much done and dusted, though. Surely we're here to dream about qualification? 

 

I always maintained I'd be happy for us to drop into the Europa on the basis that we could win it but I think i'm in the minority. Though given our injuries, death or glory might be our best bet. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Doctor Zaius

[Shak]

Aye, it's logical and practical as hell but "I hope we fail so we can have a better chance in a lesser competition" is a pretty miserable outlook to have IMO

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I really don't see a downside to any scenario THIS year - after all we were never winning it this year.

 

1. We sneak second, get though to the first knockout round and probably get knocked out by Barca or Real. Its a glamour tie and we have had a good showing

2. We secure third, drop into the Europa and go deep getting good experience and coefficient points (also another avenue to potential CL qualification for next year)

3. We finish last freeing up the fixture list post Christmas and allow us to push on in the league and give the domestic cups a real good go.

 

If we qualify again for next year then getting to the last 16 is probably the aim

[timeEd32]

40 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

If Milan win at home to Dortmund and we lose to PSG thats it done and dusted for us, meaning the final group game is a dead rubber, which would be a crying shame. Really wanted a PSG win tonight to avoid that.

Even in that scenario it would be meaningful to Milan and we can pay them back for Tonali. But I like Dortmund’s chances to get a point.

[Curva Sud Milano]

8 hours ago, CallumG6 said:

Paris SG fan stabbed in Milan this afternoon. 

 

The Italians really need to get to grips with this off the field violence that's increased in recent years. 

 

Bet the Dortmund away following will be on their guard for when they visit on 28th Nov.

 

Today, violence (football related) in Italy is at its lowest level... I have been going to San Siro since the early 80s and in that decade something serious happened EVERY Sunday, inside and outside the stadium.

 

The only serious events that happen in recent years occur almost exclusively if/when groups of away fans ( Italian fans) meet in motorway service stations.

Or when foreign fans come the day before the match and become an easy target because, after 40 years, they still haven't understood what they should not to do.

[Displayname]

1 hour ago, Optimistic Nut said:

We draw with PSG

Milan beat Dortmund

We beat Milan

PSG draw with Dortmund 

 

Everyone finishes on 8 points. How the frig would they work that out if head-to-head comes first. 

Unless Milan wins with 4 goals or more against Dortmund we are top two in that scenario.

 

So if we get a draw against PSG and win against Milan we are secured top two if either:

Milan wins against Dortmund with less that 4 goals.

Dortmund win against PSG at home in the last game.

 

Only need one of them to happen.

[Displayname]

If we win both last games we are top 2 no matter what happens in the other games.

[McDog]

17 minutes ago, Displayname said:

If we win both last games we are top 2 no matter what happens in the other games.

 

 

Which is what absolutely everyone in the organization should be striving for.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

6 hours ago, Shak said:

Aye, it's logical and practical as hell but "I hope we fail so we can have a better chance in a lesser competition" is a pretty miserable outlook to have IMO

 

 

 

Might as well have let Liverpool overtake us last season and try going deep in the Europa League. It's still in our hands even if it'll be hard with the players missing but surely we dream big man. 

[Optimistic Nut]

Anyone any ideas what the most points won by a team finishing bottom of the group is by the way?

 

We could still on paper finish top 2 with 8 points and finish bottom on 7. 

[The College Dropout]

After losing to Dortmund at home we needed to a great away night. It wasn’t in Dortmund so let’s get it in Paris.  
 

im not too concerned about Europa.  It’s CL for me.  

[Vedder]

7 hours ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

 

Today, violence (football related) in Italy is at its lowest level... I have been going to San Siro since the early 80s and in that decade something serious happened EVERY Sunday, inside and outside the stadium.

 

The only serious events that happen in recent years occur almost exclusively if/when groups of away fans ( Italian fans) meet in motorway service stations.

Or when foreign fans come the day before the match and become an easy target because, after 40 years, they still haven't understood what they should not to do.

I’m sorry, what should they not do? One of ours got stabbed in the back walking home with two friends. It’s the most cowardly of your fans that you should be looking at. If that happened in Newcastle two games in a row we’d be kicked out of Europe for a few years. 

[Optimistic Nut]

I assumed he meant the Milan fans should know what not to do after 40 years. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

After losing to Dortmund at home we needed to a great away night. It wasn’t in Dortmund so let’s get it in Paris.  
 

im not too concerned about Europa.  It’s CL for me.  

At least we’d have a shout of winning the Europa League. Would seem fitting  as a Fairs Cup follow-up and as one of the emerging teams in Europe.

[frankpingel]

Can understand those being "all in" for the CL but we're now dealing with the reality of here and now. Dropping into the EL would enhance any chance of actually winning something. 

This could still be the greatest season in most folks living memory. 

[Curva Sud Milano]

3 hours ago, Vedder said:

I’m sorry, what should they not do? One of ours got stabbed in the back walking home with two friends. It’s the most cowardly of your fans that you should be looking at. If that happened in Newcastle two games in a row we’d be kicked out of Europe for a few years. 

 

I can assure you that the stabbing of the Newcastle fan is not linked to the ultras, unlike the french one. If french ultras look for trouble in Paris (as they tried to do without success) then when they come to Milano they will find trouble.

It's wrong, I know, but that's what happens.

[CallumG6]

15 minutes ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

 

I can assure you that the stabbing of the Newcastle fan is not linked to the ultras, unlike the french one. If french ultras look for trouble in Paris (as they tried to do without success) then when they come to Milano they will find trouble.

It's wrong, I know, but that's what happens.

If you don’t mind me asking, what was it linked to? 
 

From what I’ve read it was 3 home fans heading back to their hotel and chased down, apparently the bloke got his shirt slashed off. 
 

Unsure if you can explain why that might have happened if it wasn’t Milan fans?
 

 

[Curva Sud Milano]

59 minutes ago, CallumG6 said:

If you don’t mind me asking, what was it linked to? 
 

From what I’ve read it was 3 home fans heading back to their hotel and chased down, apparently the bloke got his shirt slashed off. 
 

Unsure if you can explain why that might have happened if it wasn’t Milan fans?
 

 

 

Because that area of Milano is always full of dickheads who attack for robbery or looking for fights.

Years ago there were numerous stabbings between fascists and anarchists until the police decided to clean up but it still remains a risk area.

Furthermore, at least in Milano (unlike Rome and Naples), ultras related attacks are always motivated by previous relationships between rival fans... something that had no reason to exist vs Newcastle.

[macphisto]

12 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

I really don't see a downside to any scenario THIS year - after all we were never winning it this year.

 

1. We sneak second, get though to the first knockout round and probably get knocked out by Barca or Real. Its a glamour tie and we have had a good showing

2. We secure third, drop into the Europa and go deep getting good experience and coefficient points (also another avenue to potential CL qualification for next year)

3. We finish last freeing up the fixture list post Christmas and allow us to push on in the league and give the domestic cups a real good go.

 

If we qualify again for next year then getting to the last 16 is probably the aim

For the long-term benefit of the club and chance of winning regularly in the future, I'm leaning towards 3 as the best thing for the club this season as it would give us the best chance of finishing top four again. Players and fans have had a great experience this season playing some big teams which is enough for now and finishing top four would enable us to really establish ourselves as a top team. 

 

Fully accept that it's a little bit of a defeatist attitude, what's the point of playing if you're not trying to win etc. but I just think finishing top four again should be our biggest aim as it would transform the club in the long-term.

[Pata]

2 hours ago, Curva Sud Milano said:

Furthermore, at least in Milano (unlike Rome and Naples), ultras related attacks are always motivated by previous relationships between rival fans... something that had no reason to exist vs Newcastle.

 

This seems fair, was probably just some young gangster wannabes wanting some attention by stabbing an English football fan and I wouldn't blame AC Milan fans as a group for it. I know I don't want to be associated with the few idiots who have caused trouble with PSG and Dortmund fans in Newcastle.

[timeEd32]

7 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

At least we’d have a shout of winning the Europa League. Would seem fitting  as a Fairs Cup follow-up and as one of the emerging teams in Europe.

 

If we end up in it I'll certainly hope we make a deep run. But I really can't understand preferring it to even a chance of making the Champions League knockout rounds. Imagine being in that fucking draw and a knockout game at SJP. Not to mention that the money starts to get insane. You get £10m+ for making the Round of 16 and it only escalates from there.

[SUPERTOON]

Not aimed at anyone in particular, but it’s sad how the narrative of qualifying first for the champions league and now the knockout stages is mainly so we can make a few extra quid to help with FFP. The football side seems to take a back seat.