Gawalls Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 (edited) 1 minute ago, et tu brute said: How many times have Joelington and Willock been playing with Tonali? The time he played with both we beat Chelsea and Tonali was man of the match. Longstaff gets stick because he has far more poor games than he does good games. 14 times according to that article - unbeaten in all 14, also I said Tonali hasn’t proven we pick more points up in a run of games when he’s in the team (not saying he ever will) but you know, you’ve got me all ends up as you’ve cherry picked one game out as an example. look I hope Tonali does well but I hate the whole let’s all hate longstaff thing on here. Edited November 16 by Gawalls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solitude20 Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 hour ago, Gawalls said: Longstaff stats they state when willock, joelington, Bruno and Longstaff have started - in all 14 games they’ve never been beaten. Hard to drop him based on that. Looking at that statistic in a vacuum or isolation doesn’t mean much to conclude it was based on Longstaff starting those games. Other than the last two matches, the other 12 unbeaten matches were in the 2022-2023 season when we were 3rd in the league for most of the season, and even Almiron was one of our best players during that period with his best goal contribution numbers. The entire team was doing well in all fronts, and so associating that solely to Longstaff starting those marches is just misleading. Even then, I remember how we discussed how Longstaff was our weakest point. I am not saying Longstaff can’t play a part in our team, but taking a certain data point in isolation and attributing that to a single player or a factor to make a tactical decision could be misleading, we have to take the broader context into consideration as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Just now, Gawalls said: 14 times according to that article - unbeaten in all 14 No chance, had Tonali even played 14 matches for us in total ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 minute ago, Gawalls said: 14 times according to that article - unbeaten in all 14 Can you read I said Tonali Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 I’m done - haven’t posted on here in a long time and ending this now as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 8 minutes ago, et tu brute said: How many times have Joelington and Willock been playing with Tonali? The time he played with both we beat Chelsea and Tonali was man of the match. Longstaff gets stick because he has far more poor games than he does good games. The real story has been pushing Joelinton further up with Willock coming in. As soon as Tonali comes back into the team with that dynamic in place it will be very clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myleftboot Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 55 minutes ago, cubaricho said: I’ve seen some really terrible takes on this forum over the last two decades but holy shit some of the things being said on this page are absolutely wild. It’s just a bit craic mate, nowt serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 (edited) I think the issue here is the perception that Tonali (to some) is seemingly untouchable and wonderful and Longstaff is the devil reincarnated despite doing far more in his role at NUFC than Tonali (to date). I could be wrong - but don't think I've seen one person (myself included) argue Longstaff is the better player. Only the suggestion that we pick up results when Longstaff Starts which is absolutely accurate. Now, folk arent saying we have won more points with Barnes on the pitch than Gordon or nowt are they - to my knowledge. I think its somewhat accepted that Barnes is a great impact player for us (off the bench). You could apply the same theory to Tonali (theoretically) albeit the difference is Gordon is arguably better than the benched option and in the other instance the benched player is the better of the two. As I've previously said - they (Longstaff and Tonali) can coexist though. You have a squad and not a first 11 for that very reason. Different players and qualities and systems to break down the opposition or simply contain them. They can both be good for NUFC in different roles and systems. Naturally Howe has found this for Longstaff but needs time to understand how Tonali 'fits' best which may be an evolution of our play and system. Hopefully it is as we should be looking to continuously improve as should any successful business. However, there is a lot to be said for stability. We're picking up (much needed!!) points in a tight league at present following some degree of rotation and tinkering. Now folk seemingly want to risk that for the sake of squeezing a better player in the first 11. Frankly, I find that mad. Edited November 16 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Well said @Heron. The team always comes first. It was similar to when we signed Bruno, Shelvey was playing out of his skin and we went on a super 8 game unbeaten run ( I think it was). This isn't exactly the same scenario but Longstaff deserves his place in the starting XI at the minute. Don't worry, we will lose at some stage and he will be the obvious scapegoat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 12 minutes ago, Heron said: I think the issue here is the perception that Tonali (to some) is seemingly untouchable and wonderful and Longstaff is the devil reincarnated despite doing far more in his role at NUFC than Tonali (to date). I could be wrong - but don't think I've seen one person (myself included) argue Longstaff is the better player. Only the suggestion that we pick up results when Longstaff Starts which is absolutely accurate. Now, folk arent saying we have won more points with Barnes on the pitch than Gordon or nowt are they - to my knowledge. I think its somewhat accepted that Barnes is a great impact player for us (off the bench). You could apply the same theory to Tonali (theoretically) albeit the difference is Gordon is arguably better than the benched option and in the other instance the benched player is the better of the two. As I've previously said - they (Longstaff and Tonali) can coexist though. You have a squad and not a first 11 for that very reason. Different players and qualities and systems to break down the opposition or simply contain them. They can both be good for NUFC in different roles and systems. Naturally Howe has found this for Longstaff but needs time to understand how Tonali 'fits' best which may be an evolution of our play and system. Hopefully it is as we should be looking to continuously improve as should any successful business. However, there is a lot to be said for stability. We're picking up (much needed!!) points in a tight league at present following some degree of rotation and tinkering. Now folk seemingly want to risk that for the sake of squeezing a better player in the first 11. Frankly, I find that mad. As I said above you can't compare like for like as Tonali has hardly played with Joelington and Willock. The one game he did, he was man of the match and we beat Chelsea. He was also man of the match for Italy the other day also. Let Tonali (the better player by some distance), play in the same formation with Willock and Joelington and we will soon see which player is more beneficial for the system we play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 (edited) It's funny though - I can just see the scenario whereby we continue to start Tonali and for - whatever reason - we don't get results. Fans turn to Howe - "He cannot find a system for his best players", "he is incapable of managing big names and egos", etc. etc. He does that and gets results and folk then complain the better and favourite players don't start. Last time I checked we support Newcastle United and not Sandro Tonali... Edited November 16 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 minute ago, et tu brute said: As I said above you can't compare like for like as Tonali has hardly played with Joelington and Willock. The one game he did, he was man of the match and we beat Chelsea. He was also man of the match for Italy the other day also. Let Tonali (the better player by some distance), play in the same formation with Willock and Joelington and we will soon see which player is more beneficial for the system we play. Why do this when we're winning and finally finding performances and results though? This time will come. When Longstaff (or Bruno) don't perform and Howe rightly makes the switch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Think this Tonali vs Longstaff vs points is a little bit unfair. Not been starting many games for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 minute ago, nufc123 said: Think this Tonali vs Longstaff vs points is a little bit unfair. Not been starting many games for us. Unfair or not. We're here to win games... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 minute ago, Heron said: Why do this when we're winning and finally finding performances and results though? This time will come. When Longstaff (or Bruno) don't perform and Howe rightly makes the switch. We did get the result against Chelsea though, with Tonali being man of the match and playing with Joelington and Willock for the first time in that formation this season. He certainly didn't deserve to get dropped the next game. Kaka has it exactly right above and STMs formation a page or two back is the one to go with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 4 minutes ago, Heron said: Unfair or not. We're here to win games... I know. This is not me wanting Longstaff out, but we cant have Tonali sitting on the bench when he is dominating everytime he goes away on international duty (was well up for it against City, Brighton, Chelsea and Everton also). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonfanman Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Got the last result only after Tonali got onto the pitch. The reason that all these 'stats' are meaningless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 9 minutes ago, et tu brute said: We did get the result against Chelsea though, with Tonali being man of the match and playing with Joelington and Willock for the first time in that formation this season. He certainly didn't deserve to get dropped the next game. Kaka has it exactly right above and STMs formation a page or two back is the one to go with. But he did, and we won the next game. So was Howe wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 6 minutes ago, nufc123 said: I know. This is not me wanting Longstaff out, but we cant have Tonali sitting on the bench when he is dominating everytime he goes away on international duty (was well up for it against City, Brighton, Chelsea and Everton also). We can if we win games... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 (edited) 7 minutes ago, toonfanman said: Got the last result only after Tonali got onto the pitch. The reason that all these 'stats' are meaningless. They're not meaningless. They tell some of the story. I'm not a statto either but I care about Newcastle winning over Tonali starting. If that means we use him to make the impact which he is capable of over Longstaff whom I suspect we'd all argue isn't as capable of, then I back Howe's decision and at present that is to start Sean Longstaff. Edited November 16 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 If I were Lewis Miley I'd be wanting a loan. No chance you're getting in ahead of Pirlongstaff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 Just now, Dr.Spaceman said: If I were Lewis Miley I'd be wanting a loan. No chance you're getting in ahead of Pirlongstaff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 3 minutes ago, Heron said: We can if we win games... Feels a little bit like Burn at LB scenario Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonfanman Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 3 minutes ago, nufc123 said: Feels a little bit like Burn at LB scenario When was moved out of LB which allowed Hall to flourish and now the teams perfoming much better? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted November 16 Share Posted November 16 1 minute ago, toonfanman said: When was moved out of LB which allowed Hall to flourish and now the teams perfoming much better? Funny that isn't it. Howe knows best... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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