Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 If we have brought this talented kid in and are simply not playing him because he’s a casualty of our tight FFP restrictions going forward…I genuinely hope he goes on to be world class and we regret it for the next decade. none of this makes any sense.. he can’t get on. TONS of Injuries, very fatigued players, even a 5 minute cameo? Ritchie is coming on. Academy players are being handed their first appearances ahead of him getting any time. the more this goes on the more I think we are avoiding some kind of clause that makes this deal permanent, which is really harsh and borderline shameful to do to a young lad who was over the moon to sign with his boyhood club and hasn’t looked awful when he has gotten on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Feel for the lad. I still think its based on FFP and triggering more payments for him in the summer if we reach a certain amount of appearances. Still that can't be such a sizeable amount of our summer budget to have us that worried, unless the bulk of the fee defers another year it still doesn't make that much sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzy Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I see this thread pop up everytime he doesn't get on the pitch and I feel my eyes roll so hard I can see into another dimension. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe1984 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Mazzy said: I see this thread pop up everytime he doesn't get on the pitch and I feel my eyes roll so hard I can see into another dimension. Are we any good over there? ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upthemags Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 24 minutes ago, Sufi said: If we have brought this talented kid in and are simply not playing him because he’s a casualty of our tight FFP restrictions going forward…I genuinely hope he goes on to be world class and we regret it for the next decade. none of this makes any sense.. he can’t get on. TONS of Injuries, very fatigued players, even a 5 minute cameo? Ritchie is coming on. Academy players are being handed their first appearances ahead of him getting any time. the more this goes on the more I think we are avoiding some kind of clause that makes this deal permanent, which is really harsh and borderline shameful to do to a young lad who was over the moon to sign with his boyhood club and hasn’t looked awful when he has gotten on the pitch. Put perfectly. Feel for the lad. Held his own (on a bogus yellow card no less) against the paciest winger in germany under champions league lights and was thereafter basically banished to the underworld. Very easy to dismiss it with "training performance," but there's clearly something on the business end holding this up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myleftboot Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Wish Eddie would just come out and tell the truth about why he’s not playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 31 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: White coming on in MF to replace Miley has to be the final nail in this coffin. I can only guess that the club are trying to extricate themselves from a permanent deal now. This isn’t Howe easing him in - he doesn’t rate the lad. IIRC Howe was pretty clear when discussing Hall earlier on in the season that he sees him as a LB - I don't think the subs today or any lack of midfield appearances mean a great deal in assessing where things are at with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 36 minutes ago, Sufi said: If we have brought this talented kid in and are simply not playing him because he’s a casualty of our tight FFP restrictions going forward…I genuinely hope he goes on to be world class and we regret it for the next decade. none of this makes any sense.. he can’t get on. TONS of Injuries, very fatigued players, even a 5 minute cameo? Ritchie is coming on. Academy players are being handed their first appearances ahead of him getting any time. the more this goes on the more I think we are avoiding some kind of clause that makes this deal permanent, which is really harsh and borderline shameful to do to a young lad who was over the moon to sign with his boyhood club and hasn’t looked awful when he has gotten on the pitch. Or it could be that he actually isn’t good enough, or has a shit attitude. We don’t know how good he is, we’re guessing. Howe’s view seems pretty clear in terms of where he is at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Or it could be that he actually isn’t good enough, or has a shit attitude. We don’t know how good he is, we’re guessing. Howe’s view seems pretty clear in terms of where he is at the moment. I agree. That’s why I started with if. But I will say that if we have scouted and brought in a fullback/cm who was academy player of the year at one of the best youth academies in the world…and is capped at youth levels, a player Chelsea fans cried about when he left them…a player who featured for Chelsea at this very level just last season and looked quite good in limited showings… i highly doubt its a skill issue. He looked fine and even scored against united. A tactical issue is more likely if anything but even then, he’s been around training all season. He isn’t learning a new sport. as for the potential of it being attitude based, I doubt he would still be around the team if his attitude is so stinking bad that we refuse to play him and he’s only here on loan Maybe we are pinching money off FFP by waiting until the end of the season before making the deal permanent manually (as opposed to automatically based on appearances etc) and that may impact the books. Not sure when the FFP year starts or ends but it’s a possibility idk. This is all speculation but something smells a bit funky here. Edited February 17 by Sufi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Send the bugger back (if we can that is). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, Sufi said: I agree. That’s why I started with if. But I will say that if we have scouted and brought in a fullback/cm who was academy player of the year at one of the best youth academies in the world…and is capped at youth levels, a player Chelsea fans cried about when he left them…a player who featured for Chelsea at this very level just last season and looked quite good in limited showings… i highly doubt its a skill issue. He looked fine and even scored against united. A tactical issue is more likely if anything but even then, he’s been around training all season. He isn’t learning a new sport. as for the potential of it being attitude based, I doubt he would still be around the team if his attitude is so stinking bad that we refuse to play him and he’s only here on loan Maybe we are pinching money off FFP by waiting until the end of the season before making the deal permanent manually (as opposed to automatically based on appearances etc) and that may impact the books. Not sure when the fiscal FFP year starts or ends but it’s a possibility idk. This is all speculation but something smells a bit funky here. I’m 100% with you if the club is messing the lad about because they don’t want to trigger a clause. That’s disgraceful if it’s the case, they’re messing with the lad’s career. It absolutely is head-scratching because it’s so opaque Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWMag Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I’ve said it before but we all assume he was going to be in the first team picture because of the price tag. If we had signed him for £2million there wouldn’t be half as much interest. I think the club see his potential and ability and think he can be our first choice LB for 10+ years, so they shelled out the investment. He is not a natural LB and Howe likes players to know their role, I think it’s simply him taking a year to focus on learning how to be a LB in our team and he’s a player for the near future, the only reason our perception is different is due to the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just now, NWMag said: I’ve said it before but we all assume he was going to be in the first team picture because of the price tag. If we had signed him for £2million there wouldn’t be half as much interest. I think the club see his potential and ability and think he can be our first choice LB for 10+ years, so they shelled out the investment. He is not a natural LB and Howe likes players to know their role, I think it’s simply him taking a year to focus on learning how to be a LB in our team and he’s a player for the near future, the only reason our perception is different is due to the price. Yes, but price isn’t something that can be waved away. The reason it wouldn’t be an issue if we paid £2m is because we’d have only paid £2m. £30m is a colossal chunk of our budget - it’s not the same as a low-risk transfer. If we had the ability to spend what we want, this isn’t an issue - but we don’t have that ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Here's an idea: is it possible Hall himself - as an 18 year old moving to the other end of the country - has a veto on the deal? Maybe he just declared in private early on that he doesn't want to stay long term? His Dad was a boyhood fan but I'm not so sure he feels as strongly. Edited February 17 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I’m 100% with you if the club is messing the lad about because they don’t want to trigger a clause. That’s disgraceful if it’s the case, they’re messing with the lad’s career. It absolutely is head-scratching because it’s so opaque Imagine IF that’s the case and he’s signed off on it just to help the club out. Maybe Howe has promised him a bigger role next season and he’s smashing it in training and just taking it on the chin to help out his beloved NUFC, no matter how it impacts his development this season. Wouldn’t that be some beginning to the lore of a future club hero? Can someone (who is more familiar with FFP) find out if there are any benefits for us in delaying the move? Like it becoming automatically permanent now due to appearances versus it being signed off on in June. Edited February 17 by Sufi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWMag Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Yes, but price isn’t something that can be waved away. The reason it wouldn’t be an issue if we paid £2m is because we’d have only paid £2m. £30m is a colossal chunk of our budget - it’s not the same as a low-risk transfer. If we had the ability to spend what we want, this isn’t an issue - but we don’t have that ability. Completely get your point, but it isn’t our money, it’s the owners/clubs money and it’s only up to them how they spend it. they might have been happy to spend that money on a youth player. Baring in mind the first 12 months (which in my theory is a season of training) is just a loan, they may see it as the actual fee doesn’t kick in until he is ready to play. Edited February 17 by NWMag . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Could it be fitness? I know Eddie loves his players super fit. Gordon could barely get on last season. Even then it doesn’t explain the lack of cameo appearances for 5-10 mins at the end of a match considering our injury crisis. We’ve had matches with 4 goalkeepers in the squad ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, toontownman said: Feel for the lad. I still think its based on FFP and triggering more payments for him in the summer if we reach a certain amount of appearances. Still that can't be such a sizeable amount of our summer budget to have us that worried, unless the bulk of the fee defers another year it still doesn't make that much sense. You'd think if it was FFP based the club would just come out and say it (or leak it) to take some of the spotlight off what is an obviously strange situation - even more so today with White coming on ahead of him. The lack of any explanation suggests he's either not good enough or Howe just doesn't fancy him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 10 minutes ago, Sufi said: Imagine IF that’s the case and he’s signed off on it just to help the club out. Maybe Howe has promised him a bigger role next season and he’s smashing it in training and just taking it on the chin to help out his beloved NUFC, no matter how it impacts his development this season. Wouldn’t that be some beginning to the lore of a future club hero? Can someone (who is more familiar with FFP) find out if there are any benefits for us in delaying the move? Like it becoming automatically permanent now due to appearances versus it being signed off on in June. The FFP financial year starts 1st July, so it wouldn’t make a difference 7 minutes ago, NWMag said: Completely get your point, but it isn’t our money, it’s the owners/clubs money and it’s only up to them how they spend it. they might have been happy to spend that money on a youth player. Baring in mind the first 12 months (which in my theory is a season of training) is just a loan, they may see it as the actual fee doesn’t kick in until he is ready to play. Without FFP regs it wouldn’t be a concern. But the regs are in place, and £30m+ isn’t what you pay for a potentially good left back who isn’t close to a first team start. It is what you pay for close to the finished article. £30m plus the loan fee would make Hall one of the ten most expensive left backs of all time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, Andy said: You'd think if it was FFP based the club would just come out and say it (or leak it) to take some of the spotlight off what is an obviously strange situation - even more so today with White coming on ahead of him. The lack of any explanation suggests he's either not good enough or Howe just doesn't fancy him. lets say hypothetically that it is him not being good enough or Howe not fancying him.. what does that say about the millions spent on scouting? It’s not like he’s some obscure player we’ve signed from the 4th division of Burkina Faso. Our scouts and Eddie must have been very familiar with him? Surely? Buyers remorse? We just test-drive him and went meh ?? hard for me to even wrap my head around this situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sufi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: The FFP financial year starts 1st July, so it wouldn’t make a difference Without FFP regs it wouldn’t be a concern. But the regs are in place, and £30m+ isn’t what you pay for a potentially good left back who isn’t close to a first team start. It is what you pay for close to the finished article. £30m plus the loan fee would make Hall one of the ten most expensive left backs of all time. but isn’t the money paid over the course of the contract? So if we sign him to a 5 year deal it’s 6m off our FFP for each of the next 5 seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Just now, Sufi said: but isn’t the money paid over the course of the contract? So if we sign him to a 5 year deal it’s 6m off our FFP for each of the next 5 seasons. It is amortised over the course of the contract - the fee might be paid upfront. So like you say, it would be £6m per season deducted from the P&L ledger. Which is a lot - this season our amortised transfers will be sat around £100m for the entire squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I'd be amazed if he isn't away back to Chelsea at the end of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I'm convinced Howe has had a look at Hall and doesn't fancy him, there must be a clause in the loan contract where we have to pay the £30 million if he players a certain number of games. Constantly getting used as an unused sub just makes no sense at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEFAFWISP Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Clearly it's Howe refusing to play an Ashworth signing due to the bad blood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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