gdm Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Was more of a red card than Schar’s. Aye he slipped but the slip didn’t make him flick his leg out high. Nonsense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaj Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Very rare reds get overturned now that we have VAR. Definitely feels like preferential treatment for certain teams when things like this happen. It wasn’t a red but there are plenty of ones like that that don’t get overturned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy Chop Chop Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 23 hours ago, gdm said: Was more of a red card than Schar’s. Aye he slipped but the slip didn’t make him flick his leg out high. Nonsense True, but he also didn't touch Madison with his studs, or his boot for that matter. He tripped him with his ankle, i think the right decision was made in the end, although as you say, the slip didn't mean the trip needed to be high. The height of the trip was his choice. End of the day, shame it was overturned, fuck the miserable tosser anyhoo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 On 01/10/2024 at 18:48, Vaj said: Very rare reds get overturned now that we have VAR. Definitely feels like preferential treatment for certain teams when things like this happen. It wasn’t a red but there are plenty of ones like that that don’t get overturned There were numerous factors at play with Fernandes' one. There was no violent intent, it wasn't dangerous, he slipped, the contact was minimal etc. etc. It was at worst a professional foul warranting a yellow card. When he was the instigator or not, and whether or not Diaz made a meal of it, Schär did lean his head in to another player. Those ones are never, ever getting overturned. Have you got examples where reds weren't overturned when a team appealed such an appalling decision? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Absolutely right that that farcical decision got rescinded but the inconsistency is stark. Schär is a fair example because it categorically wasn't a red card offence according to the rules about violent conduct or serious foul play*. It should have been overturned by VAR or rescinded. It's infuriating that we're burdened with VAR and yet it doesn't intervene on incidents like these. * Spoiler SERIOUS FOUL PLAY A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play. Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play. VIOLENT CONDUCT Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made. In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fak Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 48 minutes ago, Froggy said: There were numerous factors at play with Fernandes' one. There was no violent intent, it wasn't dangerous, he slipped, the contact was minimal etc. etc. It was at worst a professional foul warranting a yellow card. When he was the instigator or not, and whether or not Diaz made a meal of it, Schär did lean his head in to another player. Those ones are never, ever getting overturned. Have you got examples where reds weren't overturned when a team appealed such an appalling decision? Haven’t seen it again so going purely off memory, but what about the Soton lad who got a straight red on Garnacho a few weeks back? IIRC (again, not seen it back) it was quite similar height to Fernandes’, similar height, minimal contact and I don’t think he connected with Garnacho with his studs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) The challenge on Garnacho, catches his knee, even if it is due to 'how garnacho is running' (Stephen Warnock), but guess thats the difference, that Jack Stephens was deemed and shown to be a 'high challenge'. Also seems his subsequent comment to officials on his way off has led to a further couple of matches banned! The play acting and mulitple body rolls by fouled players doesn't help the situation either, when you seen the contact on Garnacho's knee, though contact, is minimal. Same with Maddison. But then of course we have Anthony Gordon who does similar. Edited October 3 by TK-421 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Fak said: Haven’t seen it again so going purely off memory, but what about the Soton lad who got a straight red on Garnacho a few weeks back? IIRC (again, not seen it back) it was quite similar height to Fernandes’, similar height, minimal contact and I don’t think he connected with Garnacho with his studs? You need to see it again. He lunged at him studs up. He didn't connect with the studs but the intent was there. Also much higher than Fernandes, and with way more force. This is where the actual contact was for Bruno's: This was where it was for Stephens: Southampton didn't appeal it though. I was more addressing where someone has been unsuccessful with an appeal for an incident as farcical as the Fernandes tackle. Edited October 3 by Froggy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Diaz frightened for his life there as well, poor fella. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-421 Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Froggy said: You need to see it again. He lunged at him studs up. He didn't connect with the studs but the intent was there. Also much higher than Fernandes, and with way more force. This is where the actual contact was for Bruno's: This was where it was for Stephens: Still images will always make an incident look worse, than it was though, eh? Edited October 3 by TK-421 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Just wish there was a bit more common sense. Intent can be factored in, certainly, but it blows my mind the stuff people are being sent off for this season. Where 23/24 had farcical injury times and one guy in the technical area, it seems 24/25's contribution to the gallery of unnecessary quirks is sending people off for fuck all. Wonder what next season will bring? I understand the motives behind some initiatives but constantly we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Truly loathe how dominated the game is by refereeing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 2 minutes ago, TK-421 said: Still images will always make an incident look worse, than it was though, eh? They can do aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 6 minutes ago, Yorkie said: Just wish there was a bit more common sense. Intent can be factored in, certainly, but it blows my mind the stuff people are being sent off for this season. Where 23/24 had farcical injury times and one guy in the technical area, it seems its 24/25's contribution to the gallery of unnecessary quirks is sending people off for fuck all. Wonder what next season will bring? Truly loathe how dominated the game is by refereeing. It's brutal. Not a proper football man by any stretch of the imagination, but the game has genuinely gone soft. There's very little needle allowed anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Froggy said: There were numerous factors at play with Fernandes' one. There was no violent intent, it wasn't dangerous, he slipped, the contact was minimal etc. etc. It was at worst a professional foul warranting a yellow card. When he was the instigator or not, and whether or not Diaz made a meal of it, Schär did lean his head in to another player. Those ones are never, ever getting overturned. Have you got examples where reds weren't overturned when a team appealed such an appalling decision? Basically describing the Schär incident with those, who got sent of for violent conduct. It states that the force has to be there. It says "unless the force was negligible". Quote Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made. In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible. Edited October 3 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 26 minutes ago, Erikse said: It says "unless the force was negligible". When using your hand or arm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Froggy said: When using your hand or arm. From IFAB: It includes things like headbutt. He was sent off for Violent Conduct, and this section states that it has to be forceful in any case. Even if the IFAB rules didn't confirm this, the rules I sent first would include a note to exclude headbutts from having to be forceful if they didn't have to be. Edited October 3 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 6 minutes ago, Erikse said: It includes things like headbutt. He was sent off for Violent Conduct, and this section states that it has to be forceful in any case. Even if the IFAB rules didn't confirm this, the rules I sent first would include a note to exclude headbutts from having to be forceful if they didn't have to be. What you've just posted from the IFAB reads to me like punching, kicking and headbutting are instant reds regardless of force. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 But Schar didn't 'strike' the guy with his head anyway, he touched heads and the other guy dived to the ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 I think it's one of those ones that if Diaz had done the same to Schar, you would be crying out for a red. Either way, those ones are never getting overturned.,"Cartel 6" or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 1 minute ago, Froggy said: I think it's one of those ones that if Diaz had done the same to Schar, you would be crying out for a red. Absolutely not, I would be calling Schar a diver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Froggy said: What you've just posted from the IFAB reads to me like punching, kicking and headbutting are instant reds regardless of force. "Intense foul with a lot of force that occurs away from the ball"? Was pretty sure point nr 2 is an extension of nr 1. Edited October 3 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 Yeah I think the three points link together, you can’t have violent conduct without any violence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 8 minutes ago, Froggy said: I think it's one of those ones that if Diaz had done the same to Schar, you would be crying out for a red. Either way, those ones are never getting overturned.,"Cartel 6" or not. We’d take the team going down to 10 but no one would seriously suggest it was a red card Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Froggy said: What you've just posted from the IFAB reads to me like punching, kicking and headbutting are instant reds regardless of force. Why didn't Grealish get sent off for elbowing Tonali in the stomach, if force doesn't matter? That would be a clear and obvious error, then. Edited October 3 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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