Abacus Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) @DC Magpie I wasn't sure about Barnes up front in that line up. But, thinking about it, if him and Osula flipped between RW and ST I could maybe see something in that. Also depends if Gordon is fit. I'd maybe have Joelinton rampaging about on LW if not. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why my multiple applications to be a premier league football manager have so far not even been acknowledged, the absolute swines. Edited April 27 by Abacus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 58 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: What is this based on? Woltemade does things in and around the box that causes the opposition massive problems. His ball to Wissa wasn't even surprising, it's the kind of thing he can do time and time again if we get the ball to him in the right areas (something he also needs to work on). He needs to get stronger, and definitely needs to work on his positioning and timing, but even in his current state I've seen nothing from Gordon, Osula, or Wissa to suggest dropping Woltemade from CF was the right call. He also should have been on pens instead of Gordon stat padding, even if he may have missed a couple more. I'm not a huge fan of Osula or anything but there's just no way Woltemade scores any of his last three goals. Willie has pace and power which, whether we like it or not, are the baseline athletic attributes you need above all in today's PL. And suggesting the guy who has a 100% penalty record shouldn't be taking penalties is a bit mad for me, like... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Magpie Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 36 minutes ago, Shearergol said: Any overlapping stats around which of those games Bruno played etc? Of course that's a simplistic way I'm looking at it. But Bruno and Nick are both available now, so why the hell not give it a try again in some manner? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, DC Magpie said: Of course that's a simplistic way I'm looking at it. But Bruno and Nick are both available now, so why the hell not give it a try again in some manner? Well because the other way of looking at it is that our other strikers might score goals with Bruno playing. I don't have a horse in this race btw, I don't know whether Woltemade is actually capable yet, but I do agree with people that it's worth finding out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 50 minutes ago, Yorkie said: I'm not a huge fan of Osula or anything but there's just no way Woltemade scores any of his last three goals. Willie has pace and power which, whether we like it or not, are the baseline athletic attributes you need above all in today's PL. And suggesting the guy who has a 100% penalty record shouldn't be taking penalties is a bit mad for me, like... How is it mad? Strikers being on penalties is an easy way to maintain form - your main goalscorer should always be on penalties imo. Gordon being on penalties has upped his reputation to the point Bayern are sniffing about. He may not have scored the 3 goals Osula has scored but over the coarse of the last few months of rotating everyone OTHER than Woltemade upfront how many have the other lot collectively scored and created from open play? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said: What is this based on? Woltemade does things in and around the box that causes the opposition massive problems. His ball to Wissa wasn't even surprising, it's the kind of thing he can do time and time again if we get the ball to him in the right areas (something he also needs to work on). He needs to get stronger, and definitely needs to work on his positioning and timing, but even in his current state I've seen nothing from Gordon, Osula, or Wissa to suggest dropping Woltemade from CF was the right call. He also should have been on pens instead of Gordon stat padding, even if he may have missed a couple more. He made that pass on Saturday from the number 10 position though. If he's playing as a striker he's not in that position to play that pass Osula and Gordon are so much better at pressing than Nick and provide a threat in behind the defenders with their pace at the very least Unless the ball is directly at Nick's feet then he's not much use as he can't run beyond players and can't win headers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Magpie Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 31 minutes ago, Mills and Boon said: Nick's started 17 games up front in the league. That you feel the need to repeatedly lie to pad his stats speaks volumes Cheers. So I went back and looked and you're right. But even if you count the starts that way we've got 27 points in Nick's 17 starts (versus 15 points in the 17 matches without, which makes for an easy comparison). We were averaging better than 1.5 league points per game which would have us at 54 points today and right in the thick of things for Europe next year. In those other 17 games, we're averaging less than a point and at our rate in those games we'd be at 30 points right now, six points behind West Ham and four behind Spurs in the relegation zone. Point being, however you count it we're that fucking bad with Wissa/Osula/Gordon up top. Perhaps a coincidence, but facts are facts, as they say. Again, I understand there are a lot of factors that go into that and I'm oversimplifying to make a point, but I'm not sure you're making the point you think you are either. The season has turned to shit and it's less to do with Woltemade (or anyone else) than it is to do with Howe's stubborn inability to do anything differently, and his blind allegiance to his favorites. Just win, baby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 He travels with the ball pretty well, and I think his aerial stuff will come. Obviously he'll never have the athleticism and pace of someone like Osula, he's a completely different type of player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 If he's playing up front and got no pace he's going to be spending the majority of his time with his back to goal and fighting off defenders, which doesn't look like his game at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 17 minutes ago, joeyt said: He made that pass on Saturday from the number 10 position though. If he's playing as a striker he's not in that position to play that pass Osula and Gordon are so much better at pressing than Nick and provide a threat in behind the defenders with their pace at the very least Unless the ball is directly at Nick's feet then he's not much use as he can't run beyond players and can't win headers He's made just as good balls when starting up top though, that's why it wasn't in any way a suprise he picked Wissa out. Woltemade's scored or created atleast 2 goals with his pressing too, Sunderland and Villa. I would imagine Gordon and Osula will have fairly similar numbers to that. I get why Howe would want an athletic, pressing forward, but I struggle to believe we wouldn't have been better if Nick had stayed up top instead of juggling 3 other players ahead of him there Edited April 27 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki679 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 6 minutes ago, joeyt said: If he's playing up front and got no pace he's going to be spending the majority of his time with his back to goal and fighting off defenders, which doesn't look like his game at all One thing he did do when he was up front earlier in the season was keep possession. Balls would get played into him and he'd usually manage to find one of our players with a quick pass or flick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 3 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: He's made just as good balls when starting up top though, that's why it wasn't in any way a suprise he picked Wissa out. Woltemade's scored or created atleast 2 goals with his pressing too, Sunderland and Villa. I would imagine Gordon and Osula will have fairly similar numbers to that. I get why Howe would want an athletic, pressing forward, but I struggle to believe we wouldn't have been better if Nick has stayed up top instead of juggling 3 other players ahead of him there The two goals from his pressing when he was playing in midfield rather than up front? Pressing up front on your own is miles different to being in a midfield unit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, Loki679 said: One thing he did do when he was up front earlier in the season was keep possession. Balls would get played into him and he'd usually manage to find one of our players with a quick pass or flick. I think people have selective memories. He couldn't win a header playing up front If the ball is played perfectly to his feet he's good. If it's not then he's pretty useless at holding the ball up or providing any threat in behind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki679 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Aye, why would we want to play the ball into feet when we could be lumping it at some oaf's head? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack14Bojangles Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, joeyt said: I think people have selective memories. He couldn't win a header playing up front If the ball is played perfectly to his feet he's good. If it's not then he's pretty useless at holding the ball up or providing any threat in behind I think the same about you based on your comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 3 minutes ago, Loki679 said: Aye, why would we want to play the ball into feet when we could be lumping it at some oaf's head? Bit of a strawman but I'll bite Because when you're a striker not every ball is played perfectly at your feet. Which is why you need something else to your game. Whether it's good movement, strength, pace, a good leap. Nick doesn't have any of those Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 17 minutes ago, joeyt said: If he's playing up front and got no pace he's going to be spending the majority of his time with his back to goal and fighting off defenders, which doesn't look like his game at all Depends on the system I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 6 minutes ago, joeyt said: I think people have selective memories. He couldn't win a header playing up front If the ball is played perfectly to his feet he's good. If it's not then he's pretty useless at holding the ball up or providing any threat in behind Kind of makes sense to keep playing the ball to his feet in that case rather than punting high balls at him from deep. That's not a him problem, that's an everyone punting balls at him problem, which should be easy to solve - "lads, stop punting high balls to Nick. Play it to his feet." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 If only football was that simple Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmesy Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, joeyt said: If only football was that simple I'm wasted behind a screen. I could have been one of the great managers of our generation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack14Bojangles Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, joeyt said: Bit of a strawman but I'll bite Because when you're a striker not every ball is played perfectly at your feet. Which is why you need something else to your game. Whether it's good movement, strength, pace, a good leap. Nick doesn't have any of those I'm wondering how stupid Eddie must have been to hire such an incompetent blind player for so much money. And Nagelsmann must be even dumber to call up such an incompetent player to the national team. Edited April 27 by Jack14Bojangles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Nick definitely needs to learn how to challenge for a ball like, I agree we cannot have a massive, fairly unathletic forward who cannot challenge defenders in the air outside the box. I just think that regardless of his many shortcomings, he still looked dangerous played up top. Edited April 27 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 3 minutes ago, Jack14Bojangles said: I'm wondering how stupid Eddie must have been to hire such an incompetent blind player for so much money. And Nagelsmann must be even dumber to call up such an incompetent player to the national team. What do you disagree with in my post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fak Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 7 minutes ago, Holmesy said: I'm wasted behind a screen. I could have been one of the great managers of our generation You can both on Football Manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack14Bojangles Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, joeyt said: What do you disagree with in my post? You're denying Nick pretty much every quality a striker needs. That's what I'm wondering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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