Looks like we really have no money

[Guest Sniffer]

You could also make the argument that if robson had not lost control of the club it might not have been necessary for FS to make the mistake of appointing a manger like souness. I thinkm FS panicked a bit and decided he needed a disiplinarian. I don't thibnk the players are entirely blameless for our current situation and not only from some inept performances on the field.

[Ally]

HTL and NE5, can I ask you a simple yes or no question...........do you think Shepherd is doing a good job as chairman of this football club??

 

Do you really believe you question can be answered with a yes or no?

 

You have to consider their overall record, not just what has happened since one terrible managerial appointment. However, on the basis of their overall time in charge, and your insistence for just one word, I'd say 'yes'.

 

Looking at the overall record I believe the board made a mistake not getting rid of Robson when we finished 3rd. I believe they made another mistake by appointing Souness.

 

I also think people who babble on about the supposed bad treatment of Robson and the poor timing of his departure are being too simplistic. Would it have made any difference had Robson gone in the summer if the replacement had been Souness, for example? It may not have been Souness but it may still have turned out to be someone incompetent, you just don't know when you make the appointment because you can't actually predict the future. I'd have liked to see Robson go after we finished 3rd, but there was still no guarantee that the club would bring in the right man to take us forward, I just hoped it would happen. Other than those two bad decisions I think they've done a good job of running the club, we've made massive strides and what we're seeing right now is the fallout of that shite appointment.

 

It's vital Roeder is the right man and does turn it around, if he doesn't and turns out to be the wrong man then I think 3 mistakes will be too many, but it will still be difficult to replace the board with better. There are no guarantees a board will back a manager to the same level the current board has done, and in those circumstances it won't matter how good the manager is. No backing means we'll be rubbish. There is also no guarantee a new board will automatically appoint the right man.

 

Agreed.

[Guest Knightrider]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

[Howaythelads]

You could also make the argument that if robson had not lost control of the club it might not have been necessary for FS to make the mistake of appointing a manger like souness. I thinkm FS panicked a bit and decided he needed a disiplinarian. I don't thibnk the players are entirely blameless for our current situation and not only from some inept performances on the field.

 

Yes, I agree with that.

[Mick]

HTL and NE5, can I ask you a simple yes or no question...........do you think Shepherd is doing a good job as chairman of this football club??

 

up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ? Correct mate ? Which is what seems to be is what is being said. Nobody defends the appointment of Souness, but like all bad appointments you can't put them right quickly, especially in football if you consider anything other than winning one of the 2 major trophies to be failure.

 

If they have taken the club as far as they can, then they will go. But replacing them with better could prove pretty difficult and if they are replaced with worse, then that would be disastrous.

 

It could easily happen. I realise some are prepared to take the chance on that, but there are lots of people who think such a thing is impossible, but it isn't. There are loads of clubs who have replaced directors and ended up with worse. Do you want a board of directors who don't back their managers or take risks on the clubs potential support again ?

 

 

 

 

 

You said:

 

"up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ?

 

Here's the figures, what do you think?

 

1996-1997 2nd(Sir John & Shepherd).

1997-1998 13th.

1998-1999 13th.

1999-2000 11th.

2000-2001 11th.

2001-2002 4th.

2002-2003 3rd.

2003-2004 5th.

2004-2005 14th(Souness).

[Howaythelads]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

[Ally]

HTL and NE5, can I ask you a simple yes or no question...........do you think Shepherd is doing a good job as chairman of this football club??

 

up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ? Correct mate ? Which is what seems to be is what is being said. Nobody defends the appointment of Souness, but like all bad appointments you can't put them right quickly, especially in football if you consider anything other than winning one of the 2 major trophies to be failure.

 

If they have taken the club as far as they can, then they will go. But replacing them with better could prove pretty difficult and if they are replaced with worse, then that would be disastrous.

 

It could easily happen. I realise some are prepared to take the chance on that, but there are lots of people who think such a thing is impossible, but it isn't. There are loads of clubs who have replaced directors and ended up with worse. Do you want a board of directors who don't back their managers or take risks on the clubs potential support again ?

 

 

 

 

 

You said:

 

"up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ?

 

Here's the figures, what do you think?

 

1996-1997 2nd(Sir John & Shepherd).

1997-1998 13th.

1998-1999 13th.

1999-2000 11th.

2000-2001 11th.

2001-2002 4th.

2002-2003 3rd.

2003-2004 5th.

2004-2005 14th(Souness).

 

What did the board do wrong between 1997 and 2001 though?

 

Money was made available to managers with big reputations and good CVs, both of whom the fans welcomed with open arms.

 

Ultimately the team and managers weren't good enough, but at the time of the appointments they seemed correct. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

[Guest BooBoo]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as   or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

[Howaythelads]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as  or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

 

Yes, I get the idea that you're a bit of a soft shite acting hard on the internet again.

[Nobody]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as  or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

Yeah, that's about it.

[Guest BooBoo]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as  or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

 

Yes, I get the idea that you're a bit of a soft shite acting hard on the internet again.

 

"I dont see why you need tos tick your oar in with insults" was the phrase i believe.

 

Loser.

 

[Guest Knightrider]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

[NE5]

HTL and NE5, can I ask you a simple yes or no question...........do you think Shepherd is doing a good job as chairman of this football club??

 

up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ? Correct mate ? Which is what seems to be is what is being said. Nobody defends the appointment of Souness, but like all bad appointments you can't put them right quickly, especially in football if you consider anything other than winning one of the 2 major trophies to be failure.

 

If they have taken the club as far as they can, then they will go. But replacing them with better could prove pretty difficult and if they are replaced with worse, then that would be disastrous.

 

It could easily happen. I realise some are prepared to take the chance on that, but there are lots of people who think such a thing is impossible, but it isn't. There are loads of clubs who have replaced directors and ended up with worse. Do you want a board of directors who don't back their managers or take risks on the clubs potential support again ?

 

 

 

 

 

You said:

 

"up until appointing Souness they were doing OK ?

 

Here's the figures, what do you think?

 

1996-1997 2nd(Sir John & Shepherd).

1997-1998 13th.

1998-1999 13th.

1999-2000 11th.

2000-2001 11th.

2001-2002 4th.

2002-2003 3rd.

2003-2004 5th.

2004-2005 14th(Souness).

 

What did the board do wrong between 1997 and 2001 though?

 

Money was made available to managers with big reputations and good CVs, both of whom the fans welcomed with open arms.

 

Ultimately the team and managers weren't good enough, but at the time of the appointments they seemed correct. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

exactly.

 

I also suspect thickmick will not revise his "opinion" that even the lowest position in that list ie 14th, is still better than the "highs" under the previous regime of over 30 years despite him saying the 2 boards "are just the same" ........ note as i said the spell of 3 top 5 finishes is the first time the club has done this in over 50 years which he does not comment on, and never has every time I have posted this fact .......

 

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

What did the board do wrong between 1997 and 2001 though?

 

Money was made available to managers with big reputations and good CVs, both of whom the fans welcomed with open arms.

 

Ultimately the team and managers weren't good enough, but at the time of the appointments they seemed correct. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

Dalglish had a good CV but he left Liverpool because the pressure of Heysel had got to him, I don't blame him for that, he left Blackburn because he didn't want to be involved in the day to day running of the club.  Newcastle isn't the best place for anybody who can't take pressure, he seemed to openly cope with the pressure but didn't do a very good job.  I personally didn't want him because of the style of play he seemed to favour, Dalglish the manager seemed to want football played differently to Dalglish the player.  I also felt that Dalglish had been partly to blame for the situation Liverpool found themselves in later with Souness, Dalglish left a team that was past it's sell by date, Souness replaced them with rubbish.  Liverpool had been fairly well known for selling players just before they started going down hill, Dalglish didn’t do that.

 

Gullit was sacked at Chelsea, he won the Cup while manager but that was basically his CV.  He was sacked and left with a reputation as somebody who had a massive ego, somebody who couldn't work with so called star players, he came here and did the same.  I don't think many people were surprised when he left Newcastle, the only surprise was that he jumped before he was pushed.  Strangely, I was reasonably happy when Gullit was appointed because I was sick of the crap football played under Dalglish, I suppose I fell for the idea of sexy football.

 

[NE5]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

 

its not the same thing. While you have an ambitious board, you have a chance, if you don't have an ambitious board you have no chance. If you appoint the right manager under those circumstances, he will go, it has happened before at Newcastle.

 

I also will say - again - that as only 4 clubs have qualified more for europe and attained a higher average league position, that is not so bad as made out and the scope for improvement is very small

 

Also - it doesn't matter if a manager "falls into your lap" or not. Bobby Robson could have managed Newcastle United at any time from the 1960's up until 1992 but he didn't want to, why do you think was the reason for that ?

 

 

[madras]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

the problem for people like myself,htl and ne5 is that we have lived the other side,through the truly crap boards.we want to know what will come in before a change,we can't risk going back to a westwood or a mckeag,you may want to take that risk,i dont......i'm pretty sure if the right man comes along myself,ne5 and htl will shout for him to take over.....till he appears,for us the risk of throwing everything in the air and seeing what happens is too great.

[OzzieMandias]

 

 

If they have taken the club as far as they can, then they will go. Blah blah blah.

 

 

On what reasoning do you base this extraordinary assertion?

[Howaythelads]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as  or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

 

Yes, I get the idea that you're a bit of a soft shite acting hard on the internet again.

 

"I dont see why you need tos tick your oar in with insults" was the phrase i believe.

 

Loser.

 

 

Not sure why you're trying to quote something I said, unless you're just highlighting that you're sticking your oar in with yet more insults.

 

I'd say that while you're incapable of making a football related point I don't think I'm the loser, tough lad. I'm open to discuss these ridiculous points anytime you feel upto it.

[Guest Knightrider]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

the problem for people like myself,htl and ne5 is that we have lived the other side,through the truly crap boards.we want to know what will come in before a change,we can't risk going back to a westwood or a mckeag,you may want to take that risk,i dont......i'm pretty sure if the right man comes along myself,ne5 and htl will shout for him to take over.....till he appears,for us the risk of throwing everything in the air and seeing what happens is too great.

 

Fair enough Madras and I'm not knocking that view, rather sensible in fact but by the same token us newer generation fans can't be knocked for wanting better and looking at alternatives, the two respective clubs were poles apart and times have changed, the club demands more today because of the invironment, failure today is far more damaging than it was in those days where as success is a lot harder so when things aren't happening, questions have to be asked. BTW I'm not so fussed about success on the pitch, that's is the manager's domain and very fickle, I am more concerned about the overal management of the club, our various policies, the club's mentality and the lack of independent thinking at the club.

[NE5]

 

What did the board do wrong between 1997 and 2001 though?

 

Money was made available to managers with big reputations and good CVs, both of whom the fans welcomed with open arms.

 

Ultimately the team and managers weren't good enough, but at the time of the appointments they seemed correct. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

Dalglish had a good CV but he left Liverpool because the pressure of Heysel had got to him, I don't blame him for that, he left Blackburn because he didn't want to be involved in the day to day running of the club.  Newcastle isn't the best place for anybody who can't take pressure, he seemed to openly cope with the pressure but didn't do a very good job.  I personally didn't want him because of the style of play he seemed to favour, Dalglish the manager seemed to want football played differently to Dalglish the player.  I also felt that Dalglish had been partly to blame for the situation Liverpool found themselves in later with Souness, Dalglish left a team that was past it's sell by date, Souness replaced them with rubbish.  Liverpool had been fairly well known for selling players just before they started going down hill, Dalglish didn’t do that.

 

Gullit was sacked at Chelsea, he won the Cup while manager but that was basically his CV.  He was sacked and left with a reputation as somebody who had a massive ego, somebody who couldn't work with so called star players, he came here and did the same.  I don't think many people were surprised when he left Newcastle, the only surprise was that he jumped before he was pushed.  Strangely, I was reasonably happy when Gullit was appointed because I was sick of the crap football played under Dalglish, I suppose I fell for the idea of sexy football.

 

 

Dalglish also improved a good team at Liverpool and made them better [precisely what was required at Newcastle at the time of his appointment], playing with more flair along with it. He resigned because of the pressure of Hillsborough, not Heysel. Arguably he also thought he had taken the team as far as he could too  ie only 3 league titles, Fa Cup and 3 manager of the year awards

 

Didn't he leave Blackburn because Harford wanted a more managerial role and so the board went along with that and he left because he wasn't happy with that ?

 

However you dress it up, this was an appointment that spelled out the ambition of Newcastle at the time, very few people had a CV as good. So much for the club not appointing trophy winning big name managers. The idea at the time was that the team needed tinkering tactically to move from 2nd to 1st and he was the man to do the trick.

 

I bet you aren't going to tell us that the board of the previous 3 decades that you thought was "just the same" made appointments of that calibre .....

 

or maybe you just think this because you didn't, in fact, witness it despite saying you did and it seemed that way to an outsider.

 

Gullit left a team that was FA Cup holders, in the top 3 of the league and in europe, that went on to win more trophies. So to say that he wasn't also a top calibre appointment that spelled out the ambition of the club is not true and simply stupid.

 

I will also remind you - these 2 managers who you think were "failures" - got us to FA Cup Finals and higher league positions that the previous regime for the majority of their time that you think were "good" or "just the same"..

 

 

[NE5]

More and more of these threads are descending into the same old tripe.

 

NE5 or HTL (often both) say something ridiculous----------->Posters cant resist winding them up so try for a bite------------------------------------>NE5 or HTL respond with more rubbish littered with smilies such as  or  ---------------------------->Posters wind them up further----------------------->NE5 or HTL say something riduclous..............

 

 

 

You get the idea.

 

 

Yes, I get the idea that you're a bit of a soft shite acting hard on the internet again.

 

"I dont see why you need tos tick your oar in with insults" was the phrase i believe.

 

Loser.

 

 

I believe one day you might, just might, contribute something worth reading.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

the problem for people like myself,htl and ne5 is that we have lived the other side,through the truly crap boards.we want to know what will come in before a change,we can't risk going back to a westwood or a mckeag,you may want to take that risk,i dont......i'm pretty sure if the right man comes along myself,ne5 and htl will shout for him to take over.....till he appears,for us the risk of throwing everything in the air and seeing what happens is too great.

 

Well, I've lived through the same crap boards and I want Fred to go.

 

Fuck this "better the devil you know" nonsense.

 

We're now at a point analagous to the point where SJH took over. This board has had its day and has clearly taken the club as far as it can go -- unless we're to drop even further down the leagues, of course. Football is now going through a period of renewed investment. Despite our massive resources, current board have managed us into a position where we haven't even got any money to buy players, never mind invest in other areas of the club.

 

They've had their chance. They've made fortunes out of us. But they've failed to take us up another level and as long as they remain in charge we're going to remain a mediocre, mid-table outfit who'll be lucky to get into the UEFA Cup every now and again -- which is pretty much what we were when I first started going to matches all of 40 years ago.

[Howaythelads]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

 

Yes, I do have faith in them. It's important to have a board that will back the manager and they will do that, all they need is some luck along the way in picking the right man, and by that I mean the kind of luck that extends to the manager not sending out weakened teams in a competition we could win, and the players turning up for the big games. It could so easily have been different and that is down to the manager and the players, not the board. The board has done their bit and with some mistakes along the way, yes.

 

Your second question is one I don't really know why you're asking. I've said before it's a two way thing. Of course a new board could be better, I'm just intelligent enough and realistic enough to understand there is as good a chance (if not better) that a new board could be worse. It is other people who are naive enough to believe this can only go one way, that the current board is so bad a new board is bound to be better.

 

The difference here is that you are in favour of the gamble and I'm not. Without patronising you I think that is because I've seen sub 15,000 crowds, I've lived through the frustration of one good season making me think that if we sign just a couple of players we could challenge the top 6, only to see the board instead sell our best player(s). It's happened time and time again and it could easily happen again if the wrong people are in charge.

[Ally]

 

What did the board do wrong between 1997 and 2001 though?

 

Money was made available to managers with big reputations and good CVs, both of whom the fans welcomed with open arms.

 

Ultimately the team and managers weren't good enough, but at the time of the appointments they seemed correct. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

Dalglish had a good CV but he left Liverpool because the pressure of Heysel had got to him, I don't blame him for that, he left Blackburn because he didn't want to be involved in the day to day running of the club.  Newcastle isn't the best place for anybody who can't take pressure, he seemed to openly cope with the pressure but didn't do a very good job.  I personally didn't want him because of the style of play he seemed to favour, Dalglish the manager seemed to want football played differently to Dalglish the player.  I also felt that Dalglish had been partly to blame for the situation Liverpool found themselves in later with Souness, Dalglish left a team that was past it's sell by date, Souness replaced them with rubbish.  Liverpool had been fairly well known for selling players just before they started going down hill, Dalglish didn’t do that.

 

Gullit was sacked at Chelsea, he won the Cup while manager but that was basically his CV.  He was sacked and left with a reputation as somebody who had a massive ego, somebody who couldn't work with so called star players, he came here and did the same.  I don't think many people were surprised when he left Newcastle, the only surprise was that he jumped before he was pushed.  Strangely, I was reasonably happy when Gullit was appointed because I was sick of the crap football played under Dalglish, I suppose I fell for the idea of sexy football.

 

 

Dalglish also improved a good team at Liverpool and made them better, playing with more flair along with it. He resigned because of the pressure of Hillsborough, not Heysel. Arguably he also thought he had taken the team as far as he could too  ie only 3 league titles, Fa Cup and 3 manager of the year awards

 

Didn't he leave Blackburn because Harford wanted a more managerial role and so the board went along with that and he left because he wasn't happy with that ?

 

However you dress it up, this was an appointment that spelled out the ambition of Newcastle at the time, very few people had a CV as good. So much for the club not appointing trophy winning big name managers. The idea at the time was that the team needed tinkering tactically to move from 2nd to 1st and he was the man to do the trick.

 

I bet you aren't going to tell us that the board of the previous 3 decades that you thought was "just the same" made appointments of that calibre .....

 

or maybe you just think this because you didn't, in fact, witness it despite saying you did and it seemed that way to an outsider.

 

Gullit left a team that was FA Cup holders, in the top 3 of the league and in europe, that went on to win more trophies. So to say that he wasn't also a top calibre appointment that spelled out the ambition of the club is not true and simply stupid.

 

I will also remind you - these 2 managers who you think were "failures" - got us to FA Cup Finals and higher league positions that the previous regime for the majority of their time that you think were "good" or "just the same"..

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

I remember at the time of Dalglish I was absolutely delighted. He'd won the league only a few years earlier and had a great track record. No one forsaw the way he'd sell Keegan's team and sign some of the shite he did, but as NE5 says he got us to a cup final, something 'legendary Newcastle manager' Bobby Robson never managed.

 

I bet in May 1997 when Dalglish took us to 2nd, Mick, you were happy with his appointment. Had an excellent team at his disposal, and an on-fire Shearer who he had got on so well with at Blackburn. Infact, if Shearer hadn't got injured that August theres a good chance we wouldn't have finished mid-table. Would Dalglish had been a poor appointment then?

 

 

[NE5]

dudeabides,can i ask you a simple yes or no question........do you think nufc would be in a better position if shepherd packed in and just sold his shares to the highest bidder ?

 

I'd be prepared to take the gamble myself despite accepting that things could go bad and things are not always so simplistic.  FS has put none of his own personal wealth into the club so can afford to be wreckless and he's also in a position where he answers to no-one so the burden of responsibility doesn't weigh so heavily on his mind, where as someone buying the club for over 100m is hardly likely to piss about or mess things up. In fact I'd say the opposite is far more likely, i.e. wanting to make the most of that investment and we all know for NUFC to make money it has to be successful. As far as I'm concerned there is no hope under FS and the current board and unless they grow some new brains this is as good as it gets under them, mid-table mediocrity which has been our average finish under them in terms of final league table placings.

 

We need some fresh, independent ideas, some new enthusiasm, some new goals. The current board are hoping by throwing money at the club some fucker is going to one day get it right and that is no way to run a club, i.e. pot luck. That type of management never yeilds sustained success or stability.

 

They've had a good number of years at the job, been paid massive wages and have failed, time for them to move over and give someone else a try, after all isn't that what we do with managers? 

 

None of that guarantees they will appoint the right man, or even that they will back him properly. Appointing the right man is the key.

 

I agree, but there is no guarantee this board will appoint that right man either, so vis a vis. Do you think, because there is a possibility that a new board could be just as bad or worse than this one, that we should just accept this board and not look at other alternatives?

 

At what point do you say, hold on, this isn't working? They've had 10 years at the job and spent vast sums as well as hiring and firing a whole host of managers but we are going backwards, and have done every season with the exception of 3 years under SBR a manager who fell into their laps who actually asked them for the job. Could it be that they themselves are part of the problem?

 

A serious question for you HTL: Do you honestly trust and have confidence in the board?

 

Another one, given that there is a possibility that a new board may not be better than this one by the same token could there be a possibility that a new board could be better than this one?

 

I agree with you on many points regarding a new board and the dangers of that but I personally would take the gamble and as a club we should never accept that this lot is our lot and that no-one else can do better, that would be foolish and dangerous.

 

If the board were managers, they'd have been sacked long ago and there would be no complaints, from yourself included. Why the difference of attitude when it comes to the board? We've had shite managers before, yet you wanted rid of Souness who based on what past managers acheieved, did well. You claim he took us backwords and wasted money (which he did) so should be sacked, well so have the board.

the problem for people like myself,htl and ne5 is that we have lived the other side,through the truly crap boards.we want to know what will come in before a change,we can't risk going back to a westwood or a mckeag,you may want to take that risk,i dont......i'm pretty sure if the right man comes along myself,ne5 and htl will shout for him to take over.....till he appears,for us the risk of throwing everything in the air and seeing what happens is too great.

 

Well, I've lived through the same crap boards and I want Fred to go.

 

Fuck this "better the devil you know" nonsense.

 

We're now at a point analagous to the point where SJH took over. This board has had its day and has clearly taken the club as far as it can go -- unless we're to drop even further down the leagues, of course. Football is now going through a period of renewed investment. Despite our massive resources, current board have managed us into a position where we haven't even got any money to buy players, never mind invest in other areas of the club.

 

They've had their chance. They've made fortunes out of us. But they've failed to take us up another level and as long as they remain in charge we're going to remain a mediocre, mid-table outfit who'll be lucky to get into the UEFA Cup every now and again -- which is pretty much what we were when I first started going to matches all of 40 years ago.

 

Well I for one aren't bothered what you think.

 

And - for the most part of the years you mention pre-1992, we weren't "lucky" enough to qualify for europe, we were only "lucky" enough to finish even halfway in the top league, if we were in it at all. In fact, we weren't even "lucky" enough to hold onto 3 locally born England players who saw the club as not worth playing for.