Same points as this time last year

[Guest alex]

I agree with that tbh. I was just making the point about some of our performances this season. He's doing ok, agreed. Settling for mediocrity getting him in the first place too though imo.

[Isegrim]

Yes you've forgotten one thing. You support the club apparently. If people cant see the difference between the s**** that Souness served up and the football that Roeder has encouraged us to play (minus Owen & Shearer) then they are not watching the same side that i saw last season. Souness's side couldnt string two passes together, let alone elicit praise from the southern press for actually trying to play football.

 

Yes, we are definitely watching different teams. And reading different papers. For which game did the team get "elicit praise" from the southern press?

 

Souness - picked the wrong team/tactics, we were s****.

Roeder - picks the wrong team/tactics, we are MARGINALLY less s****.

 

Who cares what the "southern press" thinks - those of us who actually go to/watch the match can see than Roeder is an idiot. Bramble walking back into the team is evidence of that.

Yes you've forgotten one thing. You support the club apparently. If people cant see the difference between the s**** that Souness served up and the football that Roeder has encouraged us to play (minus Owen & Shearer) then they are not watching the same side that i saw last season. Souness's side couldnt string two passes together, let alone elicit praise from the southern press for actually trying to play football.

 

Yes, we are definitely watching different teams. And reading different papers. For which game did the team get "elicit praise" from the southern press?

 

I'm not making it up Ise, Henry Winter on more than one occassion in the Telegraph pointed to Roeder's ethic of trying to play football where others wouldnt. Chelsea away, a game i attended, is a very good example.

 

Also, the lad from the Times (Oliver someone, cant be arsed to look it up), said the same thing in a general piece about us in December when our form was on the up.

 

If you read as many english newspapers as me, i take my hat off. I doubt it though.

 

The football under Souness (with the players he had) doesnt even approach some of the football we have played with lesser players under Roeder.

 

So, which teams and which papers are you looking at then?

I'm normally have a quick look at the online editions of all main papers to read the match reports. I might miss the odd report, but I am still a bit mystified by the alleged general praise our style of football apparently got. I agree we had a short patch in December where the football (mostly against not really inspiring teams) was slightly better than before or after. We got better reports, still I hardly would call it praise for the style (with a bit time at the weekend I might try to dig some out).

Overall I think the football hasn't really changed from Souness to Roeder. Especially with Bramble in the team it's still the same long ball tactics. There is the odd player who is trying a bit of passing game (just as they were trying under the tosser), but which  is hardly effective as the general movement of the team is awful. We l(still) ose a lot of possession in the build up. We don't really create chances from open play and barely have shots on goal, mostly far less than our opponents.

 

People who say our football has really picked up from the dark ages must give me the number of their optician. I might want to order the same pair of rose tinted specs.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Martin Jol has spent loads and has a massive squad compared to ours yet Tottenham are level on points with us (with a game in hand). They were supposed to be going for top 4 this season. Compare Roeder's record to Martin Jol's and then consider all the injuries we've got/had.

[Guest alex]

Sheff Utd and Birmingham are two home performances this season as bad as anything dished up under Souness tbh.

sheff utd was as bad as fulham (h) under robson when we had a shot at the championship.the s*** performances have been fewer under roeder than his predecessor.

 

the earlier analogy with roeder now and when robson first took over is a good one.

Apart from the majority of fans had faith in Robson being the man to take us forward.

[Northern Monkey]

Anyone remember Bobby Robsons' first full season in charge? It was a transistional season where the club were laiden with s**** players

but there was no money to spend until the summer. I think we finished down in 12th/13th or something like that.

 

I think this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder, he is in a transistional period with the club after taking over from a complete and utter mess (souness)

Bobby had the same prediciment when he took over from Gullit.

 

Roeder's situation cannot be compared to Souness, simply because of the situation the club was in when Roeder took the job, souness had destroyed the playing staff and had ripped the heart and soul out of the place. Roeder had to mend that.

 

He has only been in the job for just over a year ffs, I laugh at some of our delusional supporters who believe we should play magnificent football week in week out, get a grip man! We are a bang average side thats needs completely rebuilding.

 

After Bobby had his first full average season he brought in Robert and Bellamy, then also signed Jenas and Woodgate. Then we were playing champs league football a matter of 2 seasons later. If roeder gets the money in the summer and buys the right players I reckon we could push right up the table again. People who back glenn roeder arn't accepting mediocraty they are being realistic.

 

You think Roeder will get us into the top 7 by the end of the season?

 

PS - if you do, you're wrong. He is not capable of it now.

[Guest andynufc84]

Anyone remember Bobby Robsons' first full season in charge? It was a transistional season where the club were laiden with s**** players

but there was no money to spend until the summer. I think we finished down in 12th/13th or something like that.

 

I think this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder, he is in a transistional period with the club after taking over from a complete and utter mess (souness)

Bobby had the same prediciment when he took over from Gullit.

 

Roeder's situation cannot be compared to Souness, simply because of the situation the club was in when Roeder took the job, souness had destroyed the playing staff and had ripped the heart and soul out of the place. Roeder had to mend that.

 

He has only been in the job for just over a year ffs, I laugh at some of our delusional supporters who believe we should play magnificent football week in week out, get a grip man! We are a bang average side thats needs completely rebuilding.

 

After Bobby had his first full average season he brought in Robert and Bellamy, then also signed Jenas and Woodgate. Then we were playing champs league football a matter of 2 seasons later. If roeder gets the money in the summer and buys the right players I reckon we could push right up the table again. People who back glenn roeder arn't accepting mediocraty they are being realistic.

 

You think Roeder will get us into the top 7 by the end of the season?

 

PS - if you do, you're wrong. He is not capable of it now.

 

No i dont think he will

 

But neither did Bobby Robson in his first full season

[Northern Monkey]

Anyone remember Bobby Robsons' first full season in charge? It was a transistional season where the club were laiden with s**** players

but there was no money to spend until the summer. I think we finished down in 12th/13th or something like that.

 

I think this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder, he is in a transistional period with the club after taking over from a complete and utter mess (souness)

Bobby had the same prediciment when he took over from Gullit.

 

Roeder's situation cannot be compared to Souness, simply because of the situation the club was in when Roeder took the job, souness had destroyed the playing staff and had ripped the heart and soul out of the place. Roeder had to mend that.

 

He has only been in the job for just over a year ffs, I laugh at some of our delusional supporters who believe we should play magnificent football week in week out, get a grip man! We are a bang average side thats needs completely rebuilding.

 

After Bobby had his first full average season he brought in Robert and Bellamy, then also signed Jenas and Woodgate. Then we were playing champs league football a matter of 2 seasons later. If roeder gets the money in the summer and buys the right players I reckon we could push right up the table again. People who back glenn roeder arn't accepting mediocraty they are being realistic.

 

You think Roeder will get us into the top 7 by the end of the season?

 

PS - if you do, you're wrong. He is not capable of it now.

 

No i dont think he will

 

But neither did Bobby Robson in his first full season

 

Do you think Roeder EVER will?

 

Point of Note 1 - Shambles walks back into the first team

Point of Note 2 - last summer we NEEDED: FW x2, LB, RB, CB. What did he do by the end of thst transfer window?

Point of Note 3 - Carr at LB

Point of Note 4 - Carr not given away to gypsies.

[Yorkie]

Charlton/Fulham weren't the Souness levels. Birmingham, aye, i'd give you that - and worse.

 

And besides, Souness ALSO drew at home to Charlton and he ALSO lost at home to Fulham, 4-1.

 

So now you have been converted from a Roeder basher to a Roeder lover? Apologies in advance if I am oversimplifying things.

 

Aye you are wrong so i'll accept your apology.

 

I'm neither really. I don't particularly love him and i don't particularly hate him. I'm indifferent, as i was as soon as we appointed him. I'm not a huge fan of his but i think we should stick with him for the time being.

 

I've bashed him and i've praised him. Probably more bashing than praising, but the things to bash stand out more. As all bad things do in football.

[Mick]

Souness took over a top five club and spent £50 million on it. Roeder took over a potless shambles. That isn't to say I think Roeder is the quality of Manager we need, but he has a major rebuilding job on his hands.

 

I agree that he has a major rebuilding job on his hands, he just doesn't appear to be up to it, he pointed out that we were "paper thin" before the August transfer window then reduced the squad depth, that's stupidity.  He's had an opportunity to put some of that right but again failed, he lost one loan player and brought another in.

 

Roeder took over form Souness and put the round pegs into the round holes and we played better because people were comfortable with that, they knew what was expected and got on with it.  He did the easy things and they worked, this year he's got his blue eyed boys and plays them regardless of form, again, that's stupidity.

 

He comes across as being a ditherer who hasn't got the balls to drop certain players, he very rarely changes a game when things goes wrong.  Any manager who can drop Nobby for Carr has got no idea what he's doing.

 

Seeing the reaction from Roeder during the game reminds me of watching a rabbit in a cars headlights, he doesn't know what to do to get out of situations, sometimes he's just sitting on the bench and looks as if the world is just passing him by, maybe he's just cooly working things out, maybe he's clueless. 

[Mick]

Sheffield was only one match, so was Birmingham, so was Charlton, Fulham was only one match.

 

Have I forgot anything?

 

Yes you've forgotten one thing. You support the club apparently. If people cant see the difference between the s**** that Souness served up and the football that Roeder has encouraged us to play (minus Owen & Shearer) then they are not watching the same side that i saw last season. Souness's side couldnt string two passes together, let alone elicit praise from the southern press for actually trying to play football.

 

I can see a bit of a difference at times and none at other times, I'm not sure what you're getting at when you refer to last season.

 

Do you mean Souness last season, Roeder last season, or both?

 

Anyway, I agree last season under Roeder was better than last season under Souness.  This season under Roeder has been a step backwards because he's managing differently, I've explained in my last post where I think he's going wrong and I'll stick by that, I might change my mind but not yet.

 

When Roeder has choices to make he'll get them wrong more often than right.

 

As soon as he gets his blue eyed boys back he''ll pick them, his reaction to Carr being injured is laughable and worrying if he's being honest.

 

Roeder was a defender yet he's done nothing to improve our defence, we still look as if we're one game away from defensive blunders.

 

Quite often this season we've also been unable to string 2 passes together so we're not that much better with our passing.  Nobby had us ticking over a lot better but was dropped when returning after suspension, this wasn't done to rest Solano, it was done because Roeder thought we'd play better with the team he put out.

 

Did anybody agree with him?  I don't know a single person who agreed with this before or after, it's worrying that Roeder thinks so highly of Carr, it's not a good sign.

[Howaythelads]

Souness took over a top five club and spent £50 million on it. Roeder took over a potless shambles. That isn't to say I think Roeder is the quality of Manager we need, but he has a major rebuilding job on his hands.

 

Good point, obviously this is seen as easy by some.

[Guest BillyRay Valentine]

christ what is wrong with some of you people?

where is our god given right to have this so called world class mannager?

have we won anything recently?

do we look like winning anything in the near future?

are we anywhere near the champions league?

do we have hundreds of millions to blow on new players?

do we have a solid foundation of raw talent and a decent sized first team squad packed with talent?

 

I take it your post is also aimed at me, amongst others.

 

Right now Newcastle United are at the very least 3 years from challenging realistically for any honours. This is obvious to a blind man and any manager considering the job would have to be in for the long haul if he were serious about winning anything. Now we are a prestigeous club and the fat man, for all his faults, has done a pretty good job of keeping our profile high, BUT we have nothing like the kudos of the top 4 so who exactly is going to take the job if we dump Roeder?

 

I very much agree with you that any manager we get should be in long haul. That's why it is even more imperative that we get the right manager. Do you want to endure another long spell of failures? We can afford to do so. The supporters will still turn up. But is this our goal as a club? The following managers were/are available.

 

Ottmar Hitzfeld, Paul Le Guen, Marcello Lippi, Arrigo Sacchi, Sven Goran Eriksson, Roberto Mancini, Claudio Ranieri. How about Martin O'Neill and Sam Allardyce?

 

Yes he's not exactly setting the world alight but when he took over we were going to get relegated, fact.

 

Yes and Roeder too nearly got us into relegated zone early season. Don't forget the Roeder's current tally is same as Souness just before he got sacked.

 

Yet since then with our prem status now safely intact and apart from the odd hiccup,

You can say under Souness our prem status was also safely intact.

 

we're gradually improving and more importantly our football is slowly getting back to the passing game NUFC was once famous for

I like this, and this was one of the reasons I supported Roeder. But where is our passing game now? We are like England National team. Full of big name players, but can't string a series of pass. Long balls aimed at Sibierski. Long punts for Martins and Dyer to chase it down. Where is the passing game gone? Have you seen any match this year that we trully dominated? Against Charlton. Which else?

 

- we're even seeing some promising signs from the academy.

I cast serious doubts that this is the work of Glenn Roeder. But I will give him credits for argument sake. Other established Premiership clubs also have sound academies which have shown more promising signs. We are not outstanding at all. Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Aston Villa, Bolton, Blackburn, Tottenham, Middlesbrough, Fulham, Man City, West Ham all have churned out famous players recently. Outside Premiership you also have Southampton, Charlton and Watford which have functioning academies. These clubs are doing the right things on academies. Can you forsee our academy under Roeder get any much better than them? Roeder is not the only manager in premiership who wants to emulate Wenger's success in academy. Lest we forget, Edgar and Huntington are not of any special qualities. Only the injury crisis forced us to use them. If it wasn't the injuries, you won;t see any encouraging signs at all.

 

Clearly this is not good enough for some people who expect us to go from relegation candidates to champions league qualifiers over the space of a single season with next to no transfer money available and a tiny squad decimated by injuries. GET A GRIP!

 

Maybe you should be the one to get a grip. We do not have next to no transfer money. 15m on Martins and Duff. Not a parsimony transfer budget is it? Why do we have a tiny squad? If our squad is really that thin, why don't Roeder brings in more players in January?

 

Its called progress. Anyone who can't see how we have improved over last season is f***** in the head.

Please, before you swear at any imaginary foe, show us any poster who can't see that we have improved?

 

It took the ferg 5 years to get man yoo back on track, and this is manchester united, one of the biggest teams of all time.

Has Glenn Roeder got the CV and track records of Alex Ferguson? What can convince us to put faith on Roeder and give him 5 years? Benitez and Wenger look set for another half a decade or a full decade in Premiership. Ferguson is retiring soon but I presume a world class manager would succed him. If Mourinho is dismissed Chelsea will just get another class manager. David Moyes doesn't seem likely to quit any time soon, and he is doing a very decent job in Everton. Allardyce still has a few years left before he retires. O'Neill is here to stay. So as Coleman, Coppell, Hughes, Jol.

 

Roeder is doing what we have desperately needed for years - stabilising the club, getting the academy working, trying to bring in players who WANT to play for NUFC rather than just pick up a pay cheque - so for the love of christ stop moaning and use a bit of perspective!

 

Anyone can stabilise the club, getting the academy working, trying to bring in players who want to play for NUFC. But can Roeder do this with distinction? But can Roeder outsmart other premiership managers? He can outspend the others, as he already proven. But has he got the edge? Why can't we just get a better manager to do this?

 

fair enough mate, some good points well made.

 

if i'm honest i'd have to agree about roeder not being good enough, however once we'd (rightfully) dumped souness what other realistic option did we have? we we're in deep shit and it appeared no-one wanted to touch us with a barge pole. o'neill turned us down as did allardyce (both hoping for the england job), le guen made a hash of things at rangers and could we really have brought in any of the european heavyweights? maybe but more likely maybe not. so we ended up giving the job to the guy who saved our arses - not too unreasonable given the circumstances.

 

far as our football goes, from what i've seen we're trying to play a passing game again. its not perfect by any means, yeah we still hoof it up top when things aren't going our way and we still don't have the players with sufficient technique to make it so, but we're moving in the right direction.

 

i concede your point about the academy, i'll admit to being guilty of a bit of a rose-tinted view on that one, however i do like roeder's attitude towards the young players. he gives them confidence and belief none of which was provided under 'we'll never win anything with a bunch of james milner's' souness.

 

is it roeders fault we have a tiny squad? duff was a poor choice agreed (jury's still out on exactly how much say roeder had on that one), but martins has been a top signing. yeah it would've been nice to see some more defensive cover in jan but seeing as theres never much available at this time, with our prem status secure and little left to play for, perhaps holding firm till summer instead of getting ripped off (as is traditionally our style) has been a sensible choice?

 

i'm not suggesting giving roeder 5 years, merely highlighting how it much time it takes to get a team back on track and for all his faults he at least appears to have the right idea about the direction in which NUFC needs to go. as i've already mentioned, although i'm sceptical about his ability, i feel he deserves another season for the work he's done so far, he doesn't have the track record granted but there are and have been managers who have become unlikely successes from being in the right place at the right time.

 

again it comes down perspective. we are a midtable side at best right now, with a history of terrible decision-making, boardroom meddling, tabloid shaming still struggling to shake off the effects of one of the most destructive managers to ever run the club. its never too long before the hotseat becomes available at one of the top clubs in europe, so what exactly do we have currently that would convince lippi, hitzfeld, mancini, etc to pick NUFC rather than stick around for one of those? i'm awary of getting too specific as theres always someone who knows better, but take spurs as an example - many peoples tip for a champs league birth this season with a respected youth set up, a highly regarded manager, a decent sized squad of young talented players, yet where are they to date? same place in europe and below us in the league.

 

to echo andynufc84's point - sa far he's done a decent job

[Mick]

Anyone remember Bobby Robsons' first full season in charge? It was a transistional season where the club were laiden with s**** players

but there was no money to spend until the summer. I think we finished down in 12th/13th or something like that.

 

I think this is exactly the same as Glenn Roeder, he is in a transistional period with the club after taking over from a complete and utter mess (souness)

Bobby had the same prediciment when he took over from Gullit.

 

Roeder's situation cannot be compared to Souness, simply because of the situation the club was in when Roeder took the job, souness had destroyed the playing staff and had ripped the heart and soul out of the place. Roeder had to mend that.

 

He has only been in the job for just over a year ffs, I laugh at some of our delusional supporters who believe we should play magnificent football week in week out, get a grip man! We are a bang average side thats needs completely rebuilding.

 

After Bobby had his first full average season he brought in Robert and Bellamy, then also signed Jenas and Woodgate. Then we were playing champs league football a matter of 2 seasons later. If roeder gets the money in the summer and buys the right players I reckon we could push right up the table again. People who back glenn roeder arn't accepting mediocraty they are being realistic.

 

At this time I can only see one improvement to just over a year ago and that is Souness has gone.

 

Things might get better, they should once Owen returns but I can't see Owen taking us to where we were before the arrival of Souness.

 

With Robson you always knew he'd eventually turn things around, you always knew that he was capable of giving us a good team, his record in management told us that.  Roeder doesn't have the benefit of that record, anybody getting too excited about what Roeder might do is not living in the real world.  Things might work out well for us under him, if they do then it's a first for him as a manager.

[Dragon55544]

What worries me about Roeder is the fact that when we have had mass injuries he seems to do better than when he has a full squad, When the team picks it self. Tactically he aint good and the way he uses his subs seem to back that statment.

 

He has failed in the transfer markets but i will give him some credit because Martins seems like a steal at £10m and Le Sib has been a good addition to the squad. Roeder wont get sacked but i should imagine he'll be backed with a decent amount of money in the Summer and then there can be no excuses from him

[Mick]

What worries me about Roeder is the fact that when we have had mass injuries he seems to do better than when he has a full squad, When the team picks it self. Tactically he aint good and the way he uses his subs seem to back that statment.

 

He has failed in the transfer markets but i will give him some credit because Martins seems like a steal at £10m and Le Sib has been a good addition to the squad. Roeder wont get sacked but i should imagine he'll be backed with a decent amount of money in the Summer and then there can be no excuses from him

 

Your first worry is my biggest worry, the transfer market might be a lack of bottle, that is easier to change and could actually be of benefit in the long term.

[Yorkie]

Matchday, IE line-ups/tactics/in-game decisions, are where he mostly falls down in my opinion, as i've pointed out in my previous posts. Probably another reason, or maybe THE reason, for why he's a really good coach and not a great manager. In most other categories, he does a good job. The transfer window was shambolic but that's an accumulation of things, not just the manager's 'ineptness'.

[Dragon55544]

What worries me about Roeder is the fact that when we have had mass injuries he seems to do better than when he has a full squad, When the team picks it self. Tactically he aint good and the way he uses his subs seem to back that statment.

 

He has failed in the transfer markets but i will give him some credit because Martins seems like a steal at £10m and Le Sib has been a good addition to the squad. Roeder wont get sacked but i should imagine he'll be backed with a decent amount of money in the Summer and then there can be no excuses from him

 

Your first worry is my biggest worry, the transfer market might be a lack of bottle, that is easier to change and could actually be of benefit in the long term.

 

TBH its my biggest worry aswell, Sometimes i think when we win people get caught in the moment and i aint ripping into people for it because ive been known for that aswell. To memory i cant think of once when Roeder has made a sub which has been effective. In all fairness i think Roeder is a nice genuine guy but he aint the manager thats gonna take us where we want to be. I'd love to be proven wrong, I'd even go as far as saying i'd pay money to be proven wrong but i know it aint gonna happen.

[Guest Knightrider]

Roeder has masterminded some shocking performances that equal any Souness served up, however the Scot had nowhere near the number of players all out at the same time that Roeder has had and neither has Roeder had the benefit of some £50m plus to bolster the squad with. Post-Souness results improved significantly as did performances and while results nor performances have been of that standard this term, this NUFC doesn't die on it's arse before a ball has been kicked and nor does Roeder go mental with his selections like Souness did. This team is very much a different team to the Souness one, especially in character which is often an underrated thing. Points wise the two teams are neck and neck but those stats don't even tell you half of it, Souness' NUFC had defenders like Bramble and Boumsong at the back and Shearer and Owen up front for the majority of the time, indeed it was Owen's goals that effectively kept us up. You add Owen's goals to this team, and you're looking at 6th or higher with points to spare.

 

It is to Roeder's credit, and the team's, that we have so many points because we've never been able to send out our best team, or even a team with most of our better players in it, something Souness was able to do more than once and lets not forget the team he actually inherited from Sir Bobby. A world of difference from the team Roeder inherited from Souness, you'll agree.

[Baggio]

NUFC had defenders like Bramble and Boumsong at the back and Shearer and Owen up front for the majority of the time, indeed it was Owen's goals that effectively kept us up. You add Owen's goals to this team, and you're looking at 6th or higher with points to spare.

 

Owen only made 10 starts all season and if you took his goals out of our side we would have finished the season with 5 points less, leaving us in 10th.

 

I seem to remember Souness being accused of dodgy training methods and players faking injuries because they didn't want to play for him for our casualty list, yet Roeder is seen as unlucky with them.

 

The only difference between Roeder and Souness is one of them is a nice bloke who played for the club and the other is an arrogant cock, both are clueless managers.

[Guest Knightrider]

NUFC had defenders like Bramble and Boumsong at the back and Shearer and Owen up front for the majority of the time, indeed it was Owen's goals that effectively kept us up. You add Owen's goals to this team, and you're looking at 6th or higher with points to spare.

 

Owen only made 10 starts all season and if you took his goals out of our side we would have finished the season with 5 points less, leaving us in 10th.

 

I seem to remember Souness being accused of dodgy training methods and players faking injuries because they didn't want to play for him for our casualty list, yet Roeder is seen as unlucky with them.

 

The only difference between Roeder and Souness is one of them is a nice bloke who played for the club and the other is an arrogant cock, both are clueless managers.

 

<titfortat>OK then, add 5 points to our points tally now, where would we be? 2 points off 6th place, a lofty 8 points off 4th... I can't remember Souness' side ever being so close to 6th place - until Roeder, erm, took over.</titfortat>

 

Anyway...

 

There are many differences between Roeder and Souness in my opinion, professionaly and character wise, Roeder is a good motivator, he doesn't alientate players or make excuses where as character wise, he's honest and as you say, not a cunt, but that's besides the point, we are discussing the two respective sides here, and there are many differences between the two.

 

This side is better, despite being down in numbers, quality and investment. Better organised, better prepared, better coached, better character, we actually score goals, which Souness' team often struggled to do even with Shearer and Owen leading the line, better performances even if marginal and better prospects.

 

Anyway Souness is in the past, lets look forward not backwards.

[Baggio]

NUFC had defenders like Bramble and Boumsong at the back and Shearer and Owen up front for the majority of the time, indeed it was Owen's goals that effectively kept us up. You add Owen's goals to this team, and you're looking at 6th or higher with points to spare.

 

Owen only made 10 starts all season and if you took his goals out of our side we would have finished the season with 5 points less, leaving us in 10th.

 

I seem to remember Souness being accused of dodgy training methods and players faking injuries because they didn't want to play for him for our casualty list, yet Roeder is seen as unlucky with them.

 

The only difference between Roeder and Souness is one of them is a nice bloke who played for the club and the other is an arrogant cock, both are clueless managers.

 

<titfortat>OK then, add 5 points to our points tally now, where would we be? 2 points off 6th place, a lofty 8 points off 4th... I can't remember Souness' side ever being so close to 6th place - until Roeder, erm, took over.</titfortat>

 

Anyway...

 

There are many differences between Roeder and Souness in my opinion, professionaly and character wise, Roeder is a good motivator, he doesn't alientate players or make excuses where as character wise, he's honest and as you say, not a c***, but that's besides the point, we are discussing the two respective sides here, and there are many differences between the two.

 

This side is better, despite being down in numbers, quality and investment. Better organised, better prepared, better coached, better character, we actually score goals, which Souness' team often struggled to do even with Shearer and Owen leading the line, better performances even if marginal and better prospects.

 

Anyway Souness is in the past, lets look forward not backwards.

 

It's not titfortat, it's fact.

 

It's been pointed out by many on here that we seem to play better when Roeder doesn't have a choice to make over team selection, when he does have a decision to make he does things like leaving Solano on the bench and playing Carr, juggling our midfield around to accommodate Parker etc Insane decisions.

 

He may be marginally better than Souness but for me that isn't enough.

[Guest Knightrider]

NUFC had defenders like Bramble and Boumsong at the back and Shearer and Owen up front for the majority of the time, indeed it was Owen's goals that effectively kept us up. You add Owen's goals to this team, and you're looking at 6th or higher with points to spare.

 

Owen only made 10 starts all season and if you took his goals out of our side we would have finished the season with 5 points less, leaving us in 10th.

 

I seem to remember Souness being accused of dodgy training methods and players faking injuries because they didn't want to play for him for our casualty list, yet Roeder is seen as unlucky with them.

 

The only difference between Roeder and Souness is one of them is a nice bloke who played for the club and the other is an arrogant cock, both are clueless managers.

 

<titfortat>OK then, add 5 points to our points tally now, where would we be? 2 points off 6th place, a lofty 8 points off 4th... I can't remember Souness' side ever being so close to 6th place - until Roeder, erm, took over.</titfortat>

 

Anyway...

 

There are many differences between Roeder and Souness in my opinion, professionaly and character wise, Roeder is a good motivator, he doesn't alientate players or make excuses where as character wise, he's honest and as you say, not a c***, but that's besides the point, we are discussing the two respective sides here, and there are many differences between the two.

 

This side is better, despite being down in numbers, quality and investment. Better organised, better prepared, better coached, better character, we actually score goals, which Souness' team often struggled to do even with Shearer and Owen leading the line, better performances even if marginal and better prospects.

 

Anyway Souness is in the past, lets look forward not backwards.

 

It's not titfortat, it's fact.

 

It's been pointed out by many on here that we seem to play better when Roeder doesn't have a choice to make over team selection, when he does have a decision to make he does things like leaving Solano on the bench and playing Carr, juggling our midfield around to accommodate Parker etc Insane decisions.

 

He may be marginally better than Souness but for me that isn't enough.

 

The Owen stuff is tit for tat, look you have your opinions, I have mine. I think Roeder is different in every way to Souness (that doesn't mean he's a great manager) and so is his team (again that doesn't mean it is a great team). You think he's clueless and that he isn't good enough I think he's an average manager brought in to do a certain job which so far he is on course to achieve and is good enough to achieve, i.e. an improvement on the previous manager and UEFA Cup qualification. That's good enough for me because we are a million miles behind the top 4 and there is no point me demanding or expecting us to finish in the top 4, we wouldn't even if an O'Neill or a Hitzfeld was in charge. As for performances, I couldn't give a shite to be honest, points are more important, I'll judge performances when Roeder can work with and select from his best team on a regular basis, something he hasn't been able to do since taking over both as a caretaker and now as full-time manager.

[skryp2nit3]

Roeder hasnt exactly set the world on fire but he does deserves credit for one thing - the team has shown character and determination at times to come back from behind this season... something we never do during Souness's era and the latter stage of Bobby's.

 

On the other hand, we've also lost the lead more times than ever before.

[madras]

Roeder hasnt exactly set the world on fire but he does deserves credit for one thing - the team has shown character and determination at times to come back from behind this season... something we never do during Souness's era and the latter stage of Bobby's.

 

On the other hand, we've also lost the lead more times than ever before.

dunno,that could go down to the end of robsons  era aswell(his last full season we "didn't win" after taking the lead more than any other prem team)

[Delima]

fair enough mate, some good points well made.

 

if i'm honest i'd have to agree about roeder not being good enough, however once we'd (rightfully) dumped souness what other realistic option did we have? we we're in deep s*** and it appeared no-one wanted to touch us with a barge pole. o'neill turned us down as did allardyce (both hoping for the england job), le guen made a hash of things at rangers and could we really have brought in any of the european heavyweights? maybe but more likely maybe not. so we ended up giving the job to the guy who saved our arses - not too unreasonable given the circumstances.

 

far as our football goes, from what i've seen we're trying to play a passing game again. its not perfect by any means, yeah we still hoof it up top when things aren't going our way and we still don't have the players with sufficient technique to make it so, but we're moving in the right direction.

 

i concede your point about the academy, i'll admit to being guilty of a bit of a rose-tinted view on that one, however i do like roeder's attitude towards the young players. he gives them confidence and belief none of which was provided under 'we'll never win anything with a bunch of james milner's' souness.

 

is it roeders fault we have a tiny squad? duff was a poor choice agreed (jury's still out on exactly how much say roeder had on that one), but martins has been a top signing. yeah it would've been nice to see some more defensive cover in jan but seeing as theres never much available at this time, with our prem status secure and little left to play for, perhaps holding firm till summer instead of getting ripped off (as is traditionally our style) has been a sensible choice?

 

i'm not suggesting giving roeder 5 years, merely highlighting how it much time it takes to get a team back on track and for all his faults he at least appears to have the right idea about the direction in which NUFC needs to go. as i've already mentioned, although i'm sceptical about his ability, i feel he deserves another season for the work he's done so far, he doesn't have the track record granted but there are and have been managers who have become unlikely successes from being in the right place at the right time.

 

again it comes down perspective. we are a midtable side at best right now, with a history of terrible decision-making, boardroom meddling, tabloid shaming still struggling to shake off the effects of one of the most destructive managers to ever run the club. its never too long before the hotseat becomes available at one of the top clubs in europe, so what exactly do we have currently that would convince lippi, hitzfeld, mancini, etc to pick NUFC rather than stick around for one of those? i'm awary of getting too specific as theres always someone who knows better, but take spurs as an example - many peoples tip for a champs league birth this season with a respected youth set up, a highly regarded manager, a decent sized squad of young talented players, yet where are they to date? same place in europe and below us in the league.

 

to echo andynufc84's point - sa far he's done a decent job

 

Sincere thanks for this civilised response.

 

I do not disagree with you that Roeder is doing a decent job. I just think that there are many better managers out there (past record and potential) who can do the job Roeder is doing at the moment. While I appreciate the fact that Roeder has not acted impulsively despite the injury crisis and supporter demands, I don't think he is the man for my ultimate aim, genuine top 6 club.

 

Hence, every day Roeder in charge is every day wasted.