St James' Park

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, Paulinho said:

This is a hard to follow post (multiplying match day income by 50% would…not lead to a 50% increase in match day income for a start).

 

Is it the case that you believe moving is a financial necessity? If so, you must have some idea of what sort of increase in match day revenue is required - what is that figure?

Man City’s cheaper ticketing was mentioned above.  Man City also have roughly the same average attendance.  Their match day revenues are roughly double ours.

 

But with a 70k stadium and vastly increased corporate, NUFC could blow past that.  A successful NUFC in a bigger ground could take in £100m+.
 

Provided the club remained in the city centre, I don’t feel all that much sentimentality for a ground which looked entirely different quarter of a century ago.  The current SJP was thrown up by Cameron Hall - it’s hardly the Parthenon. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just for a bit of clarity; one of the ways that Chelsea and Man City vastly increased match day revenue was by selling corporate boxes for seven-figure sums.

 

Who is checking 1) who bought those and 2) if those people are turning up every week?

 

Almost as if vastly rich owners can fiddle their match day incomes …

[clintdempsey]

The thing about one of the reasons for moving being financials could still be true. In terms of FFP a new stadium wouldn’t make “that” much of a difference. A good player sale would do wonders though.
 

In terms of UEFA’s profits and sustainability rules though we need to get the annual revenues up to be able to increase our salaries (=attract even better players and keeping our best ones). 

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

The thing about one of the reasons for moving being financials could still be true. In terms of FFP a new stadium wouldn’t make “that” much of a difference. A good player sale would do wonders though.
 

In terms of UEFA’s profits and sustainability rules though we need to get the annual revenues up to be able to increase our salaries (=attract even better players and keeping our best ones). 

Yep - unless of course we want to sell at least one of our best players each season 

[broony]

Has a poll been done on here? I would think the options would be:

 

1/ Keep existing stadium and find a way to build more seats. Improve some facilities inside like concourses and some more corporate areas. Everything else remains pretty much the same

2/ Knock down existing stadium and rebuild from scratch on same site, modern up to date stadium with better facilities all round, but limited by space available. Much more corporate areas and general seating.  Improved access, food and drink vendors, better store etc. 

3/ Move to new site and build a super stadium without limits, everything of the highest quality and no restrictions on size. 
 

Can a mod add a poll or is that not possible?

[Wandy]

4 minutes ago, broony said:

Has a poll been done on here? I would think the options would be:

 

1/ Keep existing stadium and find a way to build more seats. Improve some facilities inside like concourses and some more corporate areas. Everything else remains pretty much the same

2/ Knock down existing stadium and rebuild from scratch on same site, modern up to date stadium with better facilities all round, but limited by space available. Much more corporate areas and general seating.  Improved access, food and drink vendors, better store etc. 

3/ Move to new site and build a super stadium without limits, everything of the highest quality and no restrictions on size. 
 

Can a mod add a poll or is that not possible?

 

I think option 2 is a bit pointless because they simply wouldn't go to that much trouble if they were still limited by space. They will be thinking 50 years ahead and they don't want to spend a billion on a stadium only to find you only get 10 years of it being good enough.

 

If they do a rebuild on the same footprint you can guarantee that there will be an engineering project on that entire area that blows people's minds, and one which takes away the problem of limited space.

[Yorkie]

11 minutes ago, broony said:

Has a poll been done on here? I would think the options would be:

 

1/ Keep existing stadium and find a way to build more seats. Improve some facilities inside like concourses and some more corporate areas. Everything else remains pretty much the same

2/ Knock down existing stadium and rebuild from scratch on same site, modern up to date stadium with better facilities all round, but limited by space available. Much more corporate areas and general seating.  Improved access, food and drink vendors, better store etc. 

3/ Move to new site and build a super stadium without limits, everything of the highest quality and no restrictions on size. 
 

Can a mod add a poll or is that not possible?

 

 

 

[Orphanage]

 

[madras]

24 minutes ago, broony said:

Has a poll been done on here? I would think the options would be:

 

1/ Keep existing stadium and find a way to build more seats. Improve some facilities inside like concourses and some more corporate areas. Everything else remains pretty much the same

2/ Knock down existing stadium and rebuild from scratch on same site, modern up to date stadium with better facilities all round, but limited by space available. Much more corporate areas and general seating.  Improved access, food and drink vendors, better store etc. 

3/ Move to new site and build a super stadium without limits, everything of the highest quality and no restrictions on size. 
 

Can a mod add a poll or is that not possible?

Option 2...... where do we play for that 2 or 3yrs ?

[madras]

These questionnaires, are they emailed out, on the website or what, I've had nowt.

[Danh1]

5 minutes ago, madras said:

These questionnaires, are they emailed out, on the website or what, I've had nowt.

Sent by email.

 

You need to have enabled receiving marketing by partners though 

 

EDIT:

 

https://x.com/leemarshall9/status/1732017656927035409?s=46

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Danh1

[broony]

10 minutes ago, madras said:

Option 2...... where do we play for that 2 or 3yrs ?

Well yeah. I guess it’s one of Gateshead, Kingston park, stadium of light, or something like Darlington. Not sure how many of them would meet premier league regulations. 

[madras]

5 minutes ago, broony said:

Well yeah. I guess it’s one of Gateshead, Kingston park, stadium of light, or something like Darlington. Not sure how many of them would meet premier league regulations. 

Not a chance. There are 2 options. Redevelop what we have while it stays open or build elsewhere.

[TheGuv]

19 minutes ago, madras said:

Option 2...... where do we play for that 2 or 3yrs ?

Said it already on here.

 

Use one of the temporary Qatar 2022 stadiums and put it at Exhibition Park. Precedent of temporary structures being used there was set in the 1929 North East Coast Exhibition, so this shouldn’t be knocked back by the Freeman or City Council. 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

The current SJP site is limited even for a rebuild - it’s narrow and even rebuilding on it will still be limited by the same restraints that currently exist.

 

Redeveloping the current SJP will be a non-starter - adding a few thousand seats to the Gallowgate (NB likely the cheapest seats in the ground) would fail any CBA, even if it is possible.  Any feasibility study will come back with a long list of constructability issues, some of which may not be able to be resolved, and if they are the cost will be astronomical, and all to add c.5-6k of the cheapest seats in the ground. 

 

Ghoudoussi, bless him, spoke to soon and it isn’t his call - it’s the real owners’ call.  If anyone wants to know what they think of heritage or sentiment, take a look at the surrounding of the Kaaba in Mecca.  If what surrounds the holiest site in Islam doesn’t arse them, they aren’t likely to be moved by a football stadium in Newcastle. 

[TheBrownBottle]

9 minutes ago, TheGuv said:

Said it already on here.

 

Use one of the temporary Qatar 2022 stadiums and put it at Exhibition Park. Precedent of temporary structures being used there was set in the 1929 North East Coast Exhibition, so this shouldn’t be knocked back by the Freeman or City Council. 

 

The cheapest known cost of a stadium in Qatar was around £300m - and construction costs are not equal country to country.  It would likely be more to build in the UK.  Qatar is a completely different place to KSA, but it was ultimately a showpiece for Qatar.  KSA would be doing this to avoid upsetting what is likely a minority of NUFC supporters?  Yeah, not buying it. 

[wyn davies]

10 minutes ago, madras said:

Not a chance. There are 2 options. Redevelop what we have while it stays open or build elsewhere.

To redevelop would cost a fortune and therefore would not be cost effective, the only solution and more cost effective would be to move the stadium to a new area such as up the road from the present and get a better stadium for a lot less money.

[madras]

Just now, wyn davies said:

To redevelop would cost a fortune and therefore would not be cost effective, the only solution and more cost effective would be to move the stadium to a new area such as up the road from the present and get a better stadium for a lot less money.

I guess that's one of the things they'll be looking at, the cost of redevelopment Vs newbuild and the loss of "home".

[madras]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The cheapest known cost of a stadium in Qatar was around £300m - and construction costs are not equal country to country.  It would likely be more to build in the UK.  Qatar is a completely different place to KSA, but it was ultimately a showpiece for Qatar.  KSA would be doing this to avoid upsetting what is likely a minority of NUFC supporters?  Yeah, not buying it. 

And it's not like just plonking some shipping crates down for a year or two.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, madras said:

And it's not like just plonking some shipping crates down for a year or two.

Yep.  A football stadium isn’t a meccano set - even if Stadium 974 looked like one.

 

How many people are likely to be so upset about a move that they actively protest / walk away?  Not just a bit of a grumble in the pub or on social media.  Maybe a couple of dozen?  I seriously doubt that PIF are going to lay out hundreds of millions for a temporary ground with a lifespan of a couple of years so that half a busload of people don’t protest.  

[TheGuv]

6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The cheapest known cost of a stadium in Qatar was around £300m - and construction costs are not equal country to country.  It would likely be more to build in the UK.  Qatar is a completely different place to KSA, but it was ultimately a showpiece for Qatar.  KSA would be doing this to avoid upsetting what is likely a minority of NUFC supporters?  Yeah, not buying it. 

Stadium 974 wasn’t £300m though was it? It was literally shipping containers?

[ponsaelius]

You can do temporary stadiums a lot cheaper than that to be fair.

 

Cagliari's current temporary stadium holds 16k and cost 8 million euros. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, TheGuv said:

Stadium 974 wasn’t £300m though was it? It was literally shipping containers?

The cost is unknown, but rebuilding a Stadium 974 in the UK would still be likely to cost a comfortable nine-figure sum.  Back of a fag packet I reckon comfortably north of £250m.  Material procurement isn’t the most expensive element of a construction project in most instances. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, ponsaelius said:

You can do temporary stadiums a lot cheaper than that to be fair.

 

Cagliari's current temporary stadium holds 16k and cost 8 million euros. 

Yep, a small temporary ground will cost less because the structural requirements are significantly reduced.  If we’re talking a 50k stadium, temp or not, you can’t cut corners on structural elements. 

[ponsaelius]

Building Stadium 974 was expensive. It was basically a normal stadium with shipping containers used as a style aesthetic. A gimmick.

 

Building temporary stands to expand  existing stadia is nowhere near as expensive and very common. Chester-le-Street do it for internationals, Russia World Cup had stadiums with temporary stands. And like I say Cagliari built a whole 16k seater for about 8 million euros and threw it up in a year. 

 

Not saying it's necessarily the answer but it's probably not that outlandish. If rotating the pitch and altering the footprint slightly could deliver a new stadium on the existing site the cost of building a temporary stadium + build a new one altogether would likely be more cost effective than expanding the existing stadium over the metro etc.

 

You'd obviously have to significantly limit capacity (25k max maybe) but it'd be better than playing in Edinburgh or Darlington imo.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by ponsaelius